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Old 2nd June 2009, 20:52   #1
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Angry Camera Phone Problem : People's perceptions lead to big trouble.

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This is from my own personal experience.
Day before yesterday, the final phase of My motorola L6 came up. It was not getting charged and the end button was not working. So took it to service station. I was informed that internal circuit and LCD were damaged. This can be repaired, but first of all you have to deposit Rs. 415/- and then only the work on mobile will start. There after, the mobile may or may not work, even after replacing the parts.
Earlier I had spent Rs. 1700/- on repairs. Battery was also going weak, so we decided that it was time for a new mobile.

Went to Rediphone shop in Vadodara ( located on R.C.Dutt road, popularly known as Alkapuri ) and bought Nokia 3110.
But after using L6 so much, I was very well accusomted to that mobile. I must appreciate the design of L6, it was very easy and user friendly with a very good display which was easy to read.
The facilities and the manner in which we use facilites in both the phones are very different.
It was not an easy changeover.

Today I went to a Photocopy shop to get photocopy of my friend's written notes. There I was fiddling with phone to see if I can get a few settigns changed or not. Eg : how to save sent sms ? How to get rid of theme ? How to disply only clock on the screen ? How to assign keys to the naviagatoin keys and soft keys. Note that in L6 I was able to assign different functions to soft keys.

The photocopy stuff was quite large, so I was just trying different settings. Then I started the snakes game in my 3110. I was busy in game and the phone was near my eyes.

By now, two girls had entered in the shop with their material that ws to be photocopied.
They initially stood there, and then they were directed by shop workers to another branch of the shop what was dowstairs. They left the shop but were chatting something outside the door.
They called in the shop guy and told ( Yes, TOLD ) him that I was taking their photographs.
I was shocked.

How can they jump to conclusions ?

3110 is a bar type phone with camera at the back and no shutter to cover the camera.

I informed the shop guy that this phone was new, I was trying different settings and playing game. Also I informed him that after getting my photocopy, I was agian going to the shop from where I had bought my phone to get certain settings done that I was not able to do even after reading manual.


Just imagine my situation. If the girls created a hue and cry about the issue, public sympathy will be on their side, I will end up in police station.

I am shocked with this incidence.

My hefty build ( I was in athletics and weight lifting ) + phone in hand = any blame can be put on me ?

I dont know what further steps they will take, but I am now worried about this. I certainly did not take photographs. I hate mobile camera too much. The reason for buying this phone is that it comes with 1GB memory for Rs. 3980/-. I got FM player and media player, two things on my priority list.


In this free country I am insulted by this incidence.
My opinion is that if any one is getting a mobile phone with camera, make sure it has shutter on it.


I told the shop guy, if the things go wrong, I am dialing 100 for police. How this lead to trouble :
There was public sympathy towards them by the shopkeers around that shop. They came into the shop pretending that its courtesy visit, but were staring at me. I almost ended up being beaten in public for no fault of mine.
100 was on my dialing list for 2 hours as one by one everybody payed visit to shop and they almost had planned to bash me up. 2 hours were hell. If its a single guy, he will end up in hospital, but there were many in this case.



My questions are :

1) If this thing enters the legal scenario, what are the laws which can help me ?

2) The public sympathy being on their side, I am worried, and now I have arrived ( yes, arrived, not jumped ) to one conclusion. Never help any female at any point of time unless you know them. I dont know what will be the outcome after I have offered some help to any lady in need of help.
I dont know if this is correct or not.

3) What type of proof they can produce ?

I will not be able to pay respect to women on the road or any where from now onwards and will even avoid having conversation with them.

Sorry if I have hurt anybody's feelings, but I am too shocked to think what has happened. This is a sensitive issue that could lead to even more serious consequence.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 2nd June 2009 at 20:57.
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Old 2nd June 2009, 21:08   #2
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how can the girls think that you were taking their pics unless untill you point your phone's camera towards them.

Did you do so, i think by mistake.

You could have given the mobile to them and told them to find the pics.

And yes, its true some females just love to create circus, so its better to stay away from if you are alone and dont want some fun.
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Old 2nd June 2009, 21:29   #3
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Don't get me wrong here. Its a mad bad world out there.
You did't even notice the gals but ended up the bad guy.

Our "system" is like that. If a girl/lady "says" that is proof enough.
I'm not saying our legal system is.

So better be very careful with cam phone in public places.
I'll really not blame the girls, its a crazy world.

Every guy is not a gentleman.

My wife went out in the evening to buy some stuff from a shop 500 mts from home on the way 3 guys (she used the term kids, they are like barely 20) passing cheap comments one guy followed on a bike and its one of the safe places and a good residential area. Guy did't really know she was a resident there once he figured that out he vanished.

Just an example you see.
There are lot of "bad" people.
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Old 2nd June 2009, 21:42   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simply_sunny001 View Post
1) Did you do so, i think by mistake.

2) You could have given the mobile to them and told them to find the pics.

3) And yes, its true some females just love to create circus, so its better to stay away from if you are alone and dont want some fun.
1) Certainly not sure, but I was playing game and mobile was near my head.

2) They were standing outside the shop in passage and then called the shop guy. The shop guy came to me, but before that I noticed after the shop guy's first visit that they think I was fishy and always the argument exists : " You deleted the photograph ".

3) What to do now ? I dont know why but I am not feeling comfortable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yzfrj View Post

Don't get me wrong here. Its a mad bad world out there.
You did't even notice the gals but ended up the bad guy.

Our "system" is like that. If a girl/lady "says" that is proof enough.
I'm not saying our legal system is.

So better be very careful with cam phone in public places.
I'll really not blame the girls, its a crazy world.

Every guy is not a gentleman.

My wife went out in the evening to buy some stuff from a shop 500 mts from home on the way 3 guys (she used the term kids, they are like barely 20) passing cheap comments one guy followed on a bike and its one of the safe places and a good residential area. Guy did't really know she was a resident there once he figured that out he vanished.

Just an example you see.
There are lot of "bad" people.
A guy followed my sister till our home. Before we could take actions the guy managed to run away. He was on Pulsar.

I was standing at one popular restaurant in Fatehgunj area in Vadodara. This spot is heaven for antisocial elements and they are are present in quite a handsome numbers.

There once I was having food a lady in 20s passed. The antisocial elements were then chatting " She lives at that place ( giving some name of building ).

I know that there are many bad guys in the world, but then how can they claim that I took photographs ? How will they prove it ? What proof they have ?

Now I would like to give example of a festival that is best celebrated in Vadodara. The festival is Navratri.

During this festival maximum number of antisocial elements are present on the road and at the Garba venues. They do click thousands of photographs that are for they voyeuristic pleasure. And girls like those who visited the shop today end up with glamorous looks at those venues. Why dont they create a hue and cry there ?

Even police officers at those garba venues are sometimes doing the activity of taking photographs. You know what, from what I have heard, sometimes these images are also sold and in huge demand. The sales of camera phones increases during Navratri. Why no action here ?
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Old 2nd June 2009, 22:32   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post

I was busy in game and the phone was near my eyes.
Just one question. How near?
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Old 2nd June 2009, 22:57   #6
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It is a very unpleasant situation you faced. It is good that nothing further happened. Unfortunate as it is, I feel it is better that people listen when ladies complains. A majority of the times they would have a valid reason. It is the minority occasions of misunderstanding that can prove to be terrible for the innocent guy.
I understand your feeling right now. It certainly does not feel right, but do get over it. I myself nearly got into trouble once when i accidently bumped into a lady. I got a earful of words. Thankfully i had plastic packets in both my hands so others understood that i did not deliberately bump into her. I just mumbled my appoligies and went off, feeling guite cheesed off over the incident.
I have always been careful of how i use my phone in public places including office. If i get any indication of a possible misunderstanding of usage, i casually (don't make it an obvious gesture) turn the display so that they can see that i'm using the phone for something else, or that the shutter is closed. By default, i always hold my phone horizontal or near horizontal when using it in public for purposes other than speaking.

Last edited by DriverR : 2nd June 2009 at 23:00.
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Old 2nd June 2009, 23:16   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yzfrj
Our "system" is like that. If a girl/lady "says" that is proof enough.
I'm not saying our legal system is.
100% TRUE!
All they need is a girl to point her index finger at you. That is it.

That said, have a known lawyer's number in your contacts always. And Since you're innocent, call the lawyer and explain the situation. If the situation escalates, communicate that cops and lawyers are on their way (in a non threatening manner).
A lawyer would be of more help than anyone in this kind of a scenario. Don't trust cops.
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Old 2nd June 2009, 23:38   #8
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Drag them to the police station and ask then to justify their claims. Similar thing happened to me once in a Mumbai upscale restaurant. There were three of them girls and had started shouting and abusing. (They were skimpily dressed too... public sympathy!).

I just handed the phone to a security person and said "Police k paas chaltey haiN" and started walking. That is when realization dawned on them that they might have made a mistake and were hesitant.
The manager was also there by then. I demanded a public apology right there or else... police station. The manager wanted me to just let it go. But I insisted on an apology as it was my respect and dignity in question. They apologized albeit grudgingly.

These people are so self centered that they think the entire world is reacting to their cheap antics and dress sense.

I was photographing, but certainly not those cloth hangers balanced on on 2 toothpicks (legs).
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Old 2nd June 2009, 23:48   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spadival View Post
Just one question. How near?
I am uploading an image for better understanding. I was playing game as I mentioned earlier. I was not noticing that my freedom is taken negatively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DriverR View Post

1) It is a very unpleasant situation you faced. It is good that nothing further happened. It is the minority occasions of misunderstanding that can prove to be terrible for the innocent guy.

2) I understand your feeling right now. It certainly does not feel right, but do get over it.

3) I have always been careful of how i use my phone in public places including office. If i get any indication of a possible misunderstanding of usage, i casually (don't make it an obvious gesture) turn the display so that they can see that i'm using the phone for something else, or that the shutter is closed. By default, i always hold my phone horizontal or near horizontal when using it in public for purposes other than speaking.
1) I hope nothing happens further also. That is the only hope. And the innocent guy does get in to trouble big time. Very big trouble that is.

2) If nothing happens further, then its all but OK for me. I will get over it.

3) That should have been done by me, but before I could make out, they were out of the shop to get to ground floor branch of the same shop. They called in the shop guy for further talks. Its was too late for me to recover from this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post


That said, have a known lawyer's number in your contacts always. And Since you're innocent, call the lawyer and explain the situation. If the situation escalates, communicate that cops and lawyers are on their way (in a non threatening manner).
A lawyer would be of more help than anyone in this kind of a scenario. Don't trust cops.
Dad will kill me if this matter gets legal. Moreover my entire career will end up in trouble if I get in legal trouble. Add to that social impact on my family.
I am too worried, but I will have to keep in touch with lawyer it seems.

My question is that : What are further actions they can take and on what basis ?



EDIT :
@ Exhaust Note :
This is surely very inspiring. I was ready to call police at that time. The fact that they did not approach me straight or raised the issue at the very time they felt this can work for me and against me.

At that time if they had approached me, then I would have happily handed over my phone to them or to any officer to check. But they did not approach me, then they went out and called the shop guy, told him that they have doubt about me photographing them.

So I can tell that why did not you react when you felt like this. And they created fuss outside the shop.

How can it work against me ? They can claim that I have deleted the photographs.

That is what bring me to my very basic tension filled question :
How can they take further legal actions and on what basis ?
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Last edited by aaggoswami : 2nd June 2009 at 23:54.
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Old 2nd June 2009, 23:49   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DriverR View Post
I
I understand your feeling right now. It certainly does not feel right, but do get over it.
i always hold my phone horizontal or near horizontal when using it in public for purposes other than speaking.
Right, you will get over the miserable feeling in a few days time

How one holds the phone is important. As I said in my previous post I was actually taking some photographs and the ladies in my case seemed the type who would create trouble given half a chance.

Note: No offense meant to the nice and proper ladies out here (and out there) in my previous post. I was probably venting my pent up emotions.
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Old 2nd June 2009, 23:55   #11
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
What are further actions they can take and on what basis ?
If you want to be 100% sure, TURN OFF the phone right now.

Data recovery and analysis of allocation patterns in phone's memory will prove (within reasonable doubt) that NOTHING was deleted since last X hours.

Nokia relies on FAT for internal memory and their are plenty of "forensic analysis" tools that will support you case.
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Old 3rd June 2009, 00:06   #12
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Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
If you want to be 100% sure, TURN OFF the phone right now.

Data recovery and analysis of allocation patterns in phone's memory will prove (within reasonable doubt) that NOTHING was deleted since last X hours.

Nokia relies on FAT for internal memory and their are plenty of "forensic analysis" tools that will support you case.
Can you elaborate further ?

I mean its impossible for me to switch off phone because of commitments for project and one of my friends just left for Kenya yesterday. I am yet to hear from him.
But then suppose I keep my phone ON what data can they get ? Can they prove that some data was deleted if my phone remains On ?

And what if I do factory reset ? Will doing factory reset help in this case ?

For what much amount of time the phone has to remain switch off ?

But if this thing prevents me from getting into trouble I will switch off phone.

And how long data addition/deletion can they track ?
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Old 3rd June 2009, 00:07   #13
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
How can they take further legal actions and on what basis ?
aaggoswami, they have forgotten about it by now. Did they leave the premises with any threatening? Did they take any details of you? I feel quite confident that this is the last you have heard of it.

These things happen. As someone has spoken about bumping into a lady, let me tell you another of my stories. A few years back at VT (CST) station as I turned away from the stream of people, some one slapped me on my back. Turning I saw a very agitated lady trying to catch me by the collar. Some one had fondled her and got away, just as she turned around, I was the one that looked like getting away.
I was scared like anything and ended up with the traffic cop calling a cab for the police station and also with my visiting card in her hands. This was many time more serious than just photographing in public. Well once she got my card she let me go with a dark forecast for the day. I reported the matter to my CEO and he said not to worry if it reaches office he will take care of it. But if it reaches a FIR..no passport for me! Well it would cost me a lot for it anyways.

Do you know what happened? NOTHING! She must have realized after profiling me later that it was most likely some street guy than me trying to do something as downgraded as that.

In your case if they left after being informed that you were NOT taking their snaps, thats the end of it. I suggest you stop worrying dear.

I did not start hating females or stop helping when in need, rather now I am more careful and when situations call for, more prepared to defend in a manner that instigated trust in bystanders and the opposite party.
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Old 3rd June 2009, 01:40   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Can you elaborate further ?

I mean its impossible for me to switch off phone because of commitments for project and one of my friends just left for Kenya yesterday. I am yet to hear from him.
But then suppose I keep my phone ON what data can they get ? Can they prove that some data was deleted if my phone remains On ?
Phones page files may overwrite the evidence if its kept on
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
And what if I do factory reset ? Will doing factory reset help in this case ?
don't do factory reset, it will turn up against you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
For what much amount of time the phone has to remain switch off ?
Till cyber forensic investigation is over, if they proceed with the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
But if this thing prevents me from getting into trouble I will switch off phone.
If you think they will proceed with a case switch off the phone.
But the girls left and you are back home,and why you think there will be further trouble?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
And how long data addition/deletion can they track ?
From the day u bought the phone(unless a format is done with data eraser software's). They can track at what time you have taken photos with the phone...they can even recover deleted photos.
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Old 3rd June 2009, 09:18   #15
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1) aaggoswami, they have forgotten about it by now. Did they leave the premises with any threatening? Did they take any details of you? I feel quite confident that this is the last you have heard of it.

In your case if they left after being informed that you were NOT taking their snaps, thats the end of it. I suggest you stop worrying dear.

2) These things happen. As someone has spoken about bumping into a lady, let me tell you another of my stories. A few years back at VT (CST) station as I turned away from the stream of people, some one slapped me on my back. ...


3) I did not start hating females or stop helping when in need, rather now I am more careful and when situations call for, more prepared to defend in a manner that instigated trust in bystanders and the opposite party.
1) a) Yes, they left the premises without any threatening.
b) They never asked for any details of mine either to me or to the shop guy.

Thanks for the words! I think its the way you have foretasted. I think I will now leave worrying a bit about this.

2) Its much more horrible situation that what I faced yesterday. Thankfully, you came out without any problem. Forget the police hassle for the time being, the worst part is the offerings we get from public. Generally all those street guys ( who are and act like anti social animals ) who normally tease around girls/ladies, become their brothers when such an incidence takes place.
yzfrj also said the same thing about help.

What yzfrj faced, even I faced the same when someone followed my sister. The world is indeed bad, but rather than the good being more comfortable, its the good that usually end up suffering.

3) Yes, may be was my over-reaction to what had happened as I was too disturbed.
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