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Old 6th July 2009, 00:34   #196
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Don't continue to argue at night, at least get some sleep tonight. I am sure many of you have work day tomorrow. Let others be wrong on the Internet, it is OK.
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Old 6th July 2009, 00:40   #197
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Don't continue to argue at night, at least get some sleep tonight. I am sure many of you have work day tomorrow. Let others be wrong on the Internet, it is OK.
Too funny samurai
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Old 6th July 2009, 06:25   #198
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Animals follow natural order of things, the only law is law of nature and instinct. Human society does a lot of things against the natural order of things. None of that is criminalized, therefore criminalizing people just because they are not like the majority is not right too.,
I have mentioned in all my posts that persecution or criminalization of gays is wrong. All I mean is, are we not running the risk of going overboard and making it appear "cool" to the young, impressionable generation?
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Old 6th July 2009, 07:02   #199
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finally people are opening up in india.I Have nothing against Homosexual people. But i strongly feel that these people came forward because of a government that thinks in a forward path. I dont think if the so called hinduthva Govt if came into power,Homosexuals would have come out of the closet.
Press is having a gala Time!!
its hilarious to see various religous people/icons opposing this law.
Baba Ramdev- "Homosexual people are Sick and need to get them selves checked through a doctor " lol !!! maybe he will give a Asan to cure homosexuality

I foresee a near future a T-BHP homosexuals meet
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Old 6th July 2009, 07:53   #200
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Default Govt sees 'reason' in HC's gay judgment

Though we have digressed a lot, I would like to offer some news on the original topic.

This comes from yesterday's Times of India.

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Govt sees 'reason' in HC's gay judgment

NEW DELHI: The view that the Delhi High Court judgment de-criminalising sex among consenting adults of the same sex is "reasonable and well-balanced" has gained ground in the Manmohan Singh government, which is unlikely to oppose the order in the Supreme Court.

The government feels that the judgment touched but on a small part of Article 377 when it decriminalised sex between two consenting adults of the same sex in private, and that the alarmist interpretation that the law itself has been upturned should not guide the Centre's action.

There was no bone to pick with this as it was in keeping with the laws of most societies with stable democratic and judicial institutions, said a top government official.

To balance it, however, there is a view that the government may consider either amending the Section 377 or enacting a new law to signal its zero tolerance approach towards the abuse of minors and forced homosexual sex.
Many people, here and outside felt that the central government may oppose this in Supreme court. My father was convinced of the same. The times reports that it is unlikely.

Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 6th July 2009 at 07:56.
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Old 6th July 2009, 08:18   #201
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i see that your arguments are still being made under the assumption that i am anti-gay. frankly, after having clarified that i am not anti-gay, this insinuation is insulting.

your advising me to be civilized about it is really uncalled for and really patronising.

and thats the end of it from me as far as our debate on this is concerned.

I gather from hell_rider's posts here that he is not anti gay. He is merely adding his thoughts to what is a very thought provoking discussion. In fact our team-bhp discussion on this topic is more mature than several others ive seen. All team bhp members thank you for bringing out so much information and knowledge into all our threads motoring or otherwise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
Though we have digressed a lot, I would like to offer some news on the original topic.

This comes from yesterday's Times of India.



Many people, here and outside felt that the central government may oppose this in Supreme court. My father was convinced of the same. The times reports that it is unlikely.
Just a note from my end. It seems homosexuals constitute anywhere from 10-20% of our population. If so this is too big a vote bank for any politician worth his salt to ignore. Especially since this vote bank is uniform cutting across age/religion/social strata etc. I wont be surprised if a seperate homosexual reservation quota is carved in the near future. It would be funny to see people clamouring to be declared homosexual to get college seats and job reservations then

Last edited by Technocrat : 6th July 2009 at 08:32.
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Old 6th July 2009, 08:32   #202
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Animals follow natural order of things, the only law is law of nature and instinct. Human society does a lot of things against the natural order of things. None of that is criminalized, therefore criminalizing people just because they are not like the majority is not right too.,

2 cents from my end. Only as a point of argument, and does not reflect my taste or choice .

If we agree to the fact that we must not penalize/crimminalize people's sexual choices/preferences, then why is beastality frowned upon or rather declared illegal? I understand the concept of free choice. What if the animal to chose to have sex with the human? What if both were in consensus? I mean there are examples like dolphins which actively seek sex outside species/documented examples with humans. Same case with chimps and there was a news article about a yr back where in a panda in a chinese zoo attacked her keeper because he didnt accept her sexual advances!!!
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Old 6th July 2009, 08:37   #203
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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
If we agree to the fact that we must not penalize/crimminalize people's sexual choices/preferences, then why is beastality frowned upon or rather declared illegal?
Purely because this part of the our human law deals with adult consenting humans.
An animal is quite incapable of offering this consent.
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Old 6th July 2009, 08:47   #204
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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
If we agree to the fact that we must not penalize/crimminalize people's sexual choices/preferences, then why is beastality frowned upon or rather declared illegal?
actually that confuses me too. It's legal to cut open and eat a goat/buffalo but illegal to express love?
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Old 6th July 2009, 08:54   #205
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I guess goats/cows/pigs won't mind being cut-up and eaten, but copulating with humans is just offensive to them. But on a serious note, I think the law was created by people who found it offensive, just like they found gay behavior offensive

For example, eating dogs/cats is a crime in USA. Figure that one. The lawmakers found it offensive, that's all.
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Old 6th July 2009, 09:43   #206
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Speaking of finding something offensive, this judgement is a landmark not just because it legalizes homosexuality.
In the text of the judgement is a line which says.
"Law is above morality".
This is indeed significant, and paves the way for laws which are actually based on humanity, justice and equality rather than what the current society finds good or bad.
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Old 6th July 2009, 11:11   #207
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Thank goodness for these gestures, reminds me that Indian can also look beyond their traditions and past wrong doings.
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Old 6th July 2009, 13:00   #208
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code declared that homosexuality was illegal.
Actually not quite correct: 377 dealt with "carnal intercourse against the order of nature" and could and has been used against heterosexual couples as well who may have been unfortunate at being caught trying out stuff. ofcourse the primary target remained the gay community.

Also homosexuality has not quite been legalised: the media has as usual gone overboard. What the Delhi HC has done is read down the act, to de-criminalise consensual activity, which is a lot different from "legalising" activity.
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Old 6th July 2009, 13:15   #209
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Guys, Live and Let live.

As long as no one is forcing anyone to change his/her sexual orientation, why should this be a problem and warrant so much of discussion?

I think the original purpose of the thread is lost, team-bhp is now quite polarized on the subject of homosexuality. I am frankly surprised to see so much of opposition. I thought, we, as a society, had moved on. How wrong I was !

Would the opposing people change their views if a dear and near happened to be a homo/lesbian? What if one's kid turned out to be homo? Would you just ostracize him/her? I wouldn't.

In Malayalam there is an old saying - Loosely translated, it is something like - "It is all fun, when it is the neighbour's mom who has gone bonkers and not yours".

P.S - About how homosexual genes propagate - assuming there is a gene - these genes will get carried over through heterosexual reproduction - it is not the same set of genes that get propagated throughout always. They mutate and give rise to new genes, possibly homosexual ones.

Last edited by kuttapan : 6th July 2009 at 13:18.
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Old 6th July 2009, 13:31   #210
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The religious leaders of the Christian and Muslim Communities have also said that they are against criminalisation of gay activities. But they still do not approve of homosexual behaviour. I think this is fair. Why don't we just stop this debate. Those who want to oppose are free to do so and those who want to support are also free to do so. But let's not call them criminals. I'm am opposed to gay activities but I also oppose criminalisation of the same.
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