Go Back   Team-BHP > Around the Corner > Shifting gears


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th July 2009, 13:41   #211
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Sam Kapasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mumbai (but wat
Posts: 6,989
Thanked: 1,383 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by COUGAR View Post
Actually not quite correct: 377 dealt with "carnal intercourse against the order of nature" and could and has been used against heterosexual couples as well who may have been unfortunate at being caught trying out stuff. ofcourse the primary target remained the gay community..
You are correct. A lot more has happened since I made that statement. I too have been educated a lot by this discussion.
Since then the discussion has brought out sec 377 in its entirety and discussed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrolourenco View Post
The religious leaders of the Christian and Muslim Communities have also said that they are against criminalisation of gay activities. But they still do not approve of homosexual behaviour. I think this is fair. Why don't we just stop this debate. Those who want to oppose are free to do so and those who want to support are also free to do so. But let's not call them criminals. I'm am opposed to gay activities but I also oppose criminalisation of the same.
Well said indeed. I agree. Please let us not discuss reasons for homosexuality anymore. One is free to approve, support, join or disapprove of homosexuals.

Let us all collectively agree that it is not a felony and we're glad that the government has agreed to this.

Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 6th July 2009 at 13:49.
Sam Kapasi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2009, 13:57   #212
BHPian
 
fiery enzyme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN 01
Posts: 412
Thanked: 23 Times
Smile A humble note.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepclutch View Post
It is more of a (Birth) disorder and disease.but GL(gays,lesbians) are not acknowledging that.instead ,they selfishly want to prove what in a heterosexual relationship is possible.99% of the "Free Society" Supporters fails to understand what has happened to your western society? No Marriages and Immoral Society.Yeah ,For the Orthodox Indians ,we hate to acknowledge western freedom Principles.

Legalizing Homosexuality shows the amount of decay of the Society.I hope SC will interfere to save India from wanna be western freedom mongers.

Today Homosex, tomorrow Pedophilia,Day after Tomorrow Incest -there are quiet a number of possibilities.

In this case Islamic Countries and the laws they follows sometimes seems inspirational.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohit26 View Post
Its a disease .Have faith in GOD & enjoy what NATURE has created.We should not go against nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepclutch View Post
wrong move.unnatural sex - all kind must be deamed illegal and criminal offence.India is not USA nor Europe or a haven of Seperatist Feminists and Gay Advocates.The Correct word to use is CRUSH gay pride.It is a disorder and disease.

India has nothing to do with the western feminist revolutions of 1970's.India must remain traditional(but not like saudi arabia!).It is Our Strength.Freedom must be conditional.Especially in this context.

Hate Me for telling the truth
Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84 View Post
what's next? legalizing pedophilia, drugs or prostitution? how about legalizing nudity like the Western culture?
I think you guys should read up on our own culture and history. Yes the same traditions you guys keep harping about. There are enough instances of prevalent polygamy, homosexuality, hetrosexuality, prostitution and nudity in the two great epics of Indian History. Hell the prostitutes where only available in temples then. They were called temple maidens.

For the last 2000 years this is how it has been. We have Khajuraho, Kama Sutra all originated from India. Which culture and tradition are you guys talking about?
fiery enzyme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2009, 14:01   #213
BHPian
 
fiery enzyme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN 01
Posts: 412
Thanked: 23 Times
Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
People have a very lofty view of the so called very great Indian culture. They believe that anything which makes them uncomfortable must be an import from the west.
Unfortunately thats not the case....
...
...
...
So before thinking everything came from the west, learn about your own culture first. Its much much bigger and richer than you would have imagined, and at the same time it has given birth to the most evil of concepts existing. Its a mix of both good and bad, and for over 2000 years it has grown and assimilated countless traditions, values peoples. This process will never stop, and those who think they can prevent "corruption of culture", you can't, because there is no corruption, its just a continuation of the 2000 year old process(or much older)
Sorry I hadn't read this part before I answered in my last post. I agree whole heartedly man. All this do you know the culture pisses me off. I mean DO they Really KNOW what their history is?

EDIT: Homosexuality , hetrosexuality, prostitution polygamy and nudity are very common in the Ramayana and Mahabharatha and I'm ready to ship books free of cost to anyone who needs proof.

I'd rather have 100 gay friends than one fickle minded person as a friend.

Last edited by Rehaan : 6th July 2009 at 21:14. Reason: Please avoid quoting large posts in entirety as it inconveniences our smallscreen and mobile users. Thanks.
fiery enzyme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2009, 14:15   #214
BHPian
 
COUGAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Delhi
Posts: 538
Thanked: 83 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiery enzyme View Post
Hell the prostitutes where only available in temples then. They were called temple maidens.
Slightly OT:Actually I dont think the temple maidens (devdasis) themselves were prostitutes though in the British era that interpretation was certainly true.

I think the term used for sex-workers was "Ganika". And yes typically the red-light area or "Ganika Bazaar" was in front of a temple, with the sex-workers paying for the upkeep of the said temple. Example: Achyutaraaje Temple in Hampi.

just FYI.

Now let the discussion continue!
Attached Images
 
COUGAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2009, 14:30   #215
Senior - BHPian
 
normally_crazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 4,368
Thanked: 383 Times
Default

Guys,

Take a time out fellas. Everytime I open the thread wanting to read it - it has grown a couple of pages.

Slow down - let others like me catch up.
normally_crazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2009, 14:37   #216
BHPian
 
fiery enzyme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN 01
Posts: 412
Thanked: 23 Times
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
+1 to hunterz. Ten or Twenty years down the line, with the media frenzy about homosexuality already at this level, I dont know what it will be like. I dont want to impose anything on my kids, and to be honest, dont want to block anything from them. i want them to have their own views. But judging by the way that anorexia is subliminally projected onto impressionable young girls nowadays. I have no idea what my kids will be subected to. I certainly dont want to be the one wanting to block " and Tango Makes Three" from school libraries, but at the same time keep them protected from subliminal delivery of ideas.

EDIT:

as i said earlier, i dont mind my offspring being exposed to any deviance. They must learn the ways of the world, and i will not be able to protect them from everything. I dont want to make ideas safe for children, but I want to make my children safe for new ideas. But misinformation , especially the subliminal type is something poor kids might not be able to know it for what it is.
Heck, after the first few months of cable, at Age 14, would you believe that I was under the impression that underage sex was perfectly normal and legal. It's a good thing i didn't have to find out the hard way that it wasn't
I don't think you can really do anything about controlling what your kids are exposed to. The world will move on irrespective if whether we want or not. I'd just be content with educating them to everything around them. Then I'd leave it up to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by COUGAR View Post
Slightly OT:Actually I dont think the temple maidens (devdasis) themselves were prostitutes though in the British era that interpretation was certainly true.

I think the term used for sex-workers was "Ganika". And yes typically the red-light area or "Ganika Bazaar" was in front of a temple, with the sex-workers paying for the upkeep of the said temple. Example: Achyutaraaje Temple in Hampi.

just FYI.
My point was even prostitution was legal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
The Internet, pornography, 31 flavours of Ice Cream, beggar children, religious wars, protistution, pollution, world wars, rape, murder for amusement, Himmesh Reshammiya, Nazism, secularism, Satya Sai Baba, massage chairs, Antibiotics, steroids, literarure, religion, caste, botox, silicon, margeritas, kleptomania, Rakhi ka swayavar, submarines and by your own declaration, condoms too. All is this is natural.

ROFLMAO!!! `

Last edited by Technocrat : 6th July 2009 at 15:08. Reason: Please use multiquote option instead of making back to back posts
fiery enzyme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2009, 14:56   #217
BHPian
 
COUGAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Delhi
Posts: 538
Thanked: 83 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrolourenco View Post
They don't need fans. All attitudes from another era are not bad. If that was the case then almost all customs of people in India (all faiths) will have to be discarded.
Noted. but everything from "another era" is not automatically the right way forward. What may have been appropriate in the 15th century may not be appropriate today.

And "social sanction" canno tbe used as a basis for making laws. If social sanction was used as a basis for making laws, then we would never have been able to ban evil practices like Sati and child marriage.
COUGAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2009, 16:05   #218
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: chandigarh
Posts: 64
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

Hi Guys,

I have just read a few posts and not followed the whole thread. My 2 cents:
1. The government has no right as to decide about my bedroom preferences as long as I am not hurting anyone.
2. Basic policy - Live and let live.

Making a thing legal is one separate thing and it being accepted by society is a totally different thing altogether. I have many educated friends who look down upon homosexuals as some kind of weirdos.I studied in UK and some of my my classmates would not walk arm in arm in the mall (like we guys do it here), as it is considered a sign of homosexuality there, while it is totally accepted here. I was surprised by their behavior and these were educated people. It is a personal choice, why cant we stop being judgmental and keep life simple as it is supposed to be.

Cheers
Wolg
wolg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th July 2009, 17:10   #219
BHPian
 
setuniket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Noida|Delhi
Posts: 114
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
Though we have digressed a lot, I would like to offer some news on the original topic.

This comes from yesterday's Times of India.

Many people, here and outside felt that the central government may oppose this in Supreme court. My father was convinced of the same. The times reports that it is unlikely.
There is pressure within the govt to appeal, with other issues coming up, appeal might be delayed.If not the govt someone else will surely file an appeal in the higher court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Speaking of finding something offensive, this judgement is a landmark not just because it legalizes homosexuality.
In the text of the judgement is a line which says.
"Law is above morality".
This is indeed significant, and paves the way for laws which are actually based on humanity, justice and equality rather than what the current society finds good or bad.
Law was, is and will always remain above morality. Our Legal system was designed as such that nothing can go over and above our Consititution, this judgement simply reinforces this part of our legal system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by COUGAR View Post
Actually not quite correct: 377 dealt with "carnal intercourse against the order of nature" and could and has been used against heterosexual couples as well who may have been unfortunate at being caught trying out stuff. ofcourse the primary target remained the gay community.

Also homosexuality has not quite been legalised: the media has as usual gone overboard. What the Delhi HC has done is read down the act, to de-criminalise consensual activity, which is a lot different from "legalising" activity.
Wasnt that intended, alllow people to choose what they do in their private lifes and not what cops want?
setuniket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2009, 09:22   #220
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 538
Thanked: 59 Times
Default

while the amendment of 377 protects gays from prosecution, many people here seem to have expressed the view that this will protect them from harassment from police etc. i wonder.

after all the police constantly harass young heterosexual couples they find in parks, beaches etc.

this kind of harassment is not because of legal or morality reasons. its just because of the attitude of the cops. that unfortunately cannot be expected to change.

while this is a great first step, we cannot expect overnight miracles in terms of acceptance from a society as conservative (or rather hypocritical) as ours. while it may happen faster in the cities, it will take a long long while for it to become truly socially accepted.

after all while cities like LA, NY , Philly etc in the US are by and large okay, we need to remember, that the rural belts there still harbor old age notions and hostile emotions about homosexuality.

still, its an encouraging first step. there can be no denying that. and somewhere i do feel proud that our judiciary has risen above petty hypocrisy and actually given legal teeth to one of the tenets of our constitution, namely equality. this can only be the first step to more such amendments of draconian laws that need to amended ASAP with respect to today's social and cultural practices and lifestyle choices.

Last edited by hell_rider : 7th July 2009 at 09:26.
hell_rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2009, 10:00   #221
Senior - BHPian
 
esteem_lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Madras/Py
Posts: 7,554
Thanked: 433 Times
Default

Damn, everytime I think of posting something here, there is raging debate going on. Nice one too.

Homosexuality was a very well known, outspoken & socially partly accepted subject in the US before it was legalised. Here half the people don't even know what it is except that they are called ali/hijra/9 or whatever. I feel that this aspect has to improve before any laws can be effective.
esteem_lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2009, 12:46   #222
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 68
Thanked: Once
Default

Homosexuality is not a felony it can be something which is deviant or abnormal. The sexual priorities of an individual can't be decided by the laws, rules or the govt. Let them be!! it's been there since ages though under covers so how does it matter now???
T_Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2009, 12:47   #223
BHPian
 
setuniket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Noida|Delhi
Posts: 114
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hell_rider View Post
while the amendment of 377 protects gays from prosecution, many people here seem to have expressed the view that this will protect them from harassment from police etc. i wonder.
Yes it will surely, its a congnizable and non-bailable offence. Now at least this portion cant be used. If the cops threaten them to book under section 377 you get bail only from Session's court, means you go to jail for quite sometime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hell_rider View Post
after all the police constantly harass young heterosexual couples they find in parks, beaches etc.
yes they do and will continue doing so, but atleast they generally dont threaten them to book under Rape, max to max indecent act in public place under section 294 which is bailable offence(generally the offenders/victims are not booked, rather left with that fine/hafta/kharcha-paani)


Quote:
Originally Posted by hell_rider View Post
still, its an encouraging first step. there can be no denying that. and somewhere i do feel proud that our judiciary has risen above petty hypocrisy and actually given legal teeth to one of the tenets of our constitution, namely equality. this can only be the first step to more such amendments of draconian laws that need to amended ASAP with respect to today's social and cultural practices and lifestyle choices.
This is just the beginning, we have a very very long way to go, sadly the speed we are maintaining, our grandchildren(or great grand) will be able to see better laws which were not laid down in late 19th century.

Whatever I read in respect to our constitution, I realise one thing, courts have made every effort to make sure that values laid down by constitution is maintained. This case is an example of that.
setuniket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2009, 13:09   #224
Senior - BHPian
 
deepclutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Muvattupuzha
Posts: 1,119
Thanked: 108 Times
Post

just thought of posting a 3 year old news.

There are a few ,who believes Separatist feminists and other Homosexuality supporters rewrote the laws of the Western Countries ,The Medical Fact covered up to justify Homosexuality.

Quote:
Pentagon lists homosexuality as a mental disorder


Homosexuality is still a mental disorder, according to the Pentagon.
Research by the Centre for the Study of Sexual Minorities in the Military at the University of California discovered a document from the Department of Defence which listed homosexuality alongside mental problems, despite it being declassified as a condition by the American Psychological Association (APA) in 1973.
Quote:
Renowned psychiatrist maintained homosexuality is curable disorder...

"And the great issue now of homosexuality in your country, that shall be on the balance that Michael holds. Unless this balance is evened by removing this evil from your country and bringing in just laws to prevent the spread of homosexuality, you cannot be saved; your country cannot be saved. Because I repeat again, as I have repeated in the past: When a country has given itself over to immorality and all pleasures of the flesh, and abominations of the flesh, then that country will fall! If you do not believe Me, My children, I say: You will read your history books, and you will find out that there was a Sodom and Gomorrah. And what did We do to that abominable city, Sodom? We destroyed it! And what did We do to Gomorrah? We destroyed it! And We destroyed all who did not follow the plan for their redemption." Jesus, November 1, 1985
Psychiatrist maintained homosexuality is curable disorder

Last edited by deepclutch : 7th July 2009 at 13:16.
deepclutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2009, 14:51   #225
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 538
Thanked: 59 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by setuniket View Post
Yes it will surely, its a congnizable and non-bailable offence. Now at least this portion cant be used. If the cops threaten them to book under section 377 you get bail only from Session's court, means you go to jail for quite sometime.



yes they do and will continue doing so, but atleast they generally dont threaten them to book under Rape, max to max indecent act in public place under section 294 which is bailable offence(generally the offenders/victims are not booked, rather left with that fine/hafta/kharcha-paani)




This is just the beginning, we have a very very long way to go, sadly the speed we are maintaining, our grandchildren(or great grand) will be able to see better laws which were not laid down in late 19th century.

Whatever I read in respect to our constitution, I realise one thing, courts have made every effort to make sure that values laid down by constitution is maintained. This case is an example of that.
setuniket,

i wasn't talking about legal ramifications. i was just mentioning the cops' general sadistic tendency to harass when they can and make life difficult. so what i was saying was, when they still continue to harass heterosexual couples under obscenity / indecency law threats etc. its a bit optimistic to assume that just this amendment is going to make them stop harassing gay couples.

sorry if i'm sounding a bit cynical guys.
hell_rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pathetic service experience at Landmark Honda, Ahmedabad rockporiom Indian Car Dealerships 4 16th June 2015 00:58
Hyderabad-Salem:Diversion Landmark? ranjitp1 Route / Travel Queries 32 21st June 2012 16:02
Game Changers - Landmark events in the Indian Automotive Scene amit_2025 The Indian Car Scene 71 12th February 2012 06:38
Panel for landmark changes in Motor Vehicle Act vbraju Street Experiences 2 2nd January 2011 13:04
A Landmark Shift in Bajaj's Advertising??? vasudeva Motorbikes 12 31st July 2009 07:05


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 00:57.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks