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Old 9th July 2009, 18:25   #241
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I've been reading whats been going on, on this thread fomr sometime now - and here's what i think. I appologise to those that will take offence to what i am about to say.

I totally support the fact that homosexual sex is legal. Its an individuals right to choose whom they are attracted too and with whom they have sex with. Its not illegal to show affection in public and i think no matter what sexes, affection is a good thing, so why not flaunt it. If your in love, be it a man with a man or a woman with a woman, their is nothing wrong with it, it's great that they are in love in the first place. Sadly, alot of the older generation, have never had the chance to experience- infactuation's, puppy love, etc and be able to express it in front of their elders, so any form of public affection is bad for them. On the same note and slightly off topic, why are people against valentines day??

It's great being reserved in your thoughts and its great having morals. But morals should be along the lines of 'do not steal', 'do not kill'. Not whom to love. These morals should come naturally to us and should'nt be inforced by religion or religious figures.

I think this ruling is great and i hope it stay. It will show religious heads and others that the country is about the people and not about its religions. Heritage is one thing, being backward is another!! If you don't like people showing you, in public that they are gay, or behaving in a manner which is normal to them, then why should we be pushing our views of homosexuality being evil and a disease onto them? Live and let live! We dont like people having an opinions on what truely belive in, so why should we enforce what we belive onto others?

I have friends and cousins who are gay and i have absolutely no problem with them. My family does'nt either and so i don't see why anyone else should. If people are getting offened or getting their 'feeling hurt', then please dont participate, its that simple really!!! If your homosexual and want to flaunt it please do so, we love to flaunt things we belive. Everyones allowed to flaunt what every they want!!!!

Sorry for babbling on and once again sorry if i hurt someones feelings, but i truely belive, that the day homosexuallity got made legal, was a great day for our country!!
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Old 10th July 2009, 11:16   #242
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
prince pervez does have a point. even if we are not to drag religion into this, most of our views in this are deeply influenced by what our religions ( or their representatives) advice us.
I was of the opinion that ALL religions teach us (and expect us) to respect all living things (including humans).

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Originally Posted by Samir Taheer View Post
I totally support the fact that homosexual sex is legal.
I think this ruling is great and i hope it stay.
I have friends and cousins who are gay and i have absolutely no problem with them. My family does'nt either and so i don't see why anyone else should.

If people are getting offened or getting their 'feeling hurt', then please dont participate, its that simple really!!!
Exactly my sentiments!

Somehow religion and goverments will support (and even find ways to legitimise and rationalise) man killing man (wars, terrorisim, etc..) but not man loving man. Wierd world we live in na?

Since this is an automotive forum atleast we can check out the bikes they drive on gay pride day.
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Indian morality progresses - Homosexuality is now legal - A landmark day!-imga0013.jpg  

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Old 10th July 2009, 11:25   #243
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I think every argument about this topic has been done. It is time to give it a rest. Now, let's go after Meterosexuals...
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Old 10th July 2009, 14:27   #244
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I was of the opinion that ALL religions teach us (and expect us) to respect all living things (including humans).
things, yes, but practices, not quite
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Old 10th July 2009, 16:06   #245
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
If there are any gays present here, ... who can go on arguing indefinitely. It may also help to create empathy.
OT, but this seems to be the second such request on the thread.

I would really love to hear the LGBT viewpoint as well, but given the high degree of animosity that generally is anticipated, I do not think this would be possible even now, even here. A pity.

Lovely debate and I am more on the liberal side of things.

Make love, not war. Gaily, if need be.
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Old 14th July 2009, 18:16   #246
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Originally Posted by given2fly View Post
For some, this is a mental condition, social disease, blablabla, and that will remain so no matter what you say. I am in that group and despise this ruling.
I tried not to comment as it has been many days, but there is something I must ask you.

I think perhaps you have misunderstood the ruling. It does not say "It's OK to be gay" or encourages homosexuality, it merely says "If you are gay it's not a crime"

Forget about people who support homosexuality. It is inconsequential. In fact I'm going to be brave enough to say that the pages of argument about homosexuality are all inconsequential.

Let us, purely for argument's sake, assume that homosexuality is in fact a despicable mental disease. Perhaps even a curable condition. That all people that think like me are completely wrong.

I quote you again for emphasis
Quote:
For some, this is a mental condition, social disease, blablabla, and that will remain so no matter what you say.
Agreed, no matter what we say, for some people it will remain a mental condition, social disease, blablabla.

Given2fly, do you think anyone with a mental disease should go to jail for this? That his or her crime in the eyes of the law should be that they have a mental condition that harms no other human being?


Because if you despise this ruling, then one can only assume you want gay people to be punished in the court of law. That you believe that homosexuality is a felony that needs to be awarded prison bars. Do you?

You are free however, to despise homosexuality itself and even the homosexual people. You would not be alone in this sentiment.
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Old 14th July 2009, 18:27   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
If there are any gays present here, I invite them to come forward and put their perspective on the table. That will carry infinitely more weight than the POV of the others, who can go on arguing indefinitely. It may also help to create empathy.
how do you know that all discussions on this thread are by straights. Nobody has to declare about their sexual preference before making a statement. What weight will it add to any of the postings in this thread if it adds a line "oh by the way, I am gay".

The ruling will help ease their fears. Coming out of closet, nope, that's because of social stigma and nothing has changed there.

@Sam, totally agree.
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Old 14th July 2009, 18:49   #248
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
That his or her crime in the eyes of the law should be that they have a mental condition that harms no other human being?
Many people would also view abortion as a crime, though it is legal, is a matter of personal choice, and arguably, harms no other human being ( the status of an embryo being a grey area).

And of course , there is always the matter of zoosexuals
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Old 14th July 2009, 18:53   #249
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
Many people would also view abortion as a crime, though it is legal, is a matter of personal choice, and arguably, harms no other human being ( the status of an embryo being a grey area).
Exactly. To many, abortion is murder. Both on an ethical and religious level. To some it is a matter of choice. Both viewpoints co-exist.
But does anyone think abortion is a crime that needs to be punished in court of law?
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And of course , there is always the matter of zoosexuals
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Old 14th July 2009, 19:01   #250
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fully agree, this is the third time Mr. greenhorn has brought it up.

Man , you are obsessed

wondering why no one has brought up killing of sperms so far.
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Old 14th July 2009, 19:13   #251
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I think that Indian courts are getting out of track because they forgot their job. They even forgot why they are present.
A few facts :

1) I think we have too many cases that need more attention that this issue. There are many many issues and cases pending, so why not focus on them rather than an issue that itself is not a crime.

2) Court is meant to deliver justice if somebody has committed crime and not for delivering justice that are not crime in the first place.

3) I wonder why no statement came from Supreme court when money was brought into parliament of world's largest democracy.

4) I wonder why they never comment on dowry system. Daily in news paper I read " one lady gets burned from stove ". Joke. Actually they lady was deliberately set on fire for dowry, etc. I have seen one case personally when my mother was hospitalized a few years ago.

5) I would say that the following quote :
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Originally Posted by mjothi View Post
I still wonder why Prostitution is not made legal. Even after so many countries has proven that this actually helps women from being targeted.
is one area where supreme court has to act. Why no word on this ? This would reduce the exploitation of women ( who are involved in prostitution and not involved in prostitution ).

6) I never knew that certain things have to be legal. I hope that breathing is legal too.

Overall, to summarize, I was surprised when SC came up with what others call " Verdict ". I realized that judge are generally free for these topics and keep mum regarding high taxes, leakage in taxes, the list is on.....
What I believe is this : gay-ism is not a crime, so why did court come in ? Those who are gay never hurt others, so where did they commit crime so big that SC has to find time for " verdict " ?
For religion ? In India there are multiple religions, so do the judges have knowledge of all the religions ? Are we operating by religion books ? No religion gives a thumbs up for corruption, but still its rampant in India at each and every step.

I am getting worried what will happen to this nation as we, as a nation, are not able to concentrate on real issues. God help my India.
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Old 14th July 2009, 19:47   #252
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fully agree, this is the third time Mr. greenhorn has brought it up.
My point is , most of the arguements which favor homosexuality apply to zoosexuality as well. And i find people who support one and find the other sickening highly inconsistent.

its not too unlike a vegan trying to justify himself to an audience of vegetarians that being a vegan was okay, while not accepting non veggies.

They are not too different, and yet people who bring forth all these arguements in favour of homosexuality somehow turn a blind eye to zoosexuality.

As a person who does not accept either, I find this stand quite amusing. Its like a progressive citizen from the 19th century saying I am willing to accept that women were eligible to vote, but not slaves ( how can they? they are not free men!!)

Obviously, I'm not trying to support zoosexuality here, but just trying to draw a few parallels. Most people seem to be missing the point.

I guess even those who favour change can still tolerate only incremental change

Last edited by greenhorn : 14th July 2009 at 19:51.
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Old 14th July 2009, 20:06   #253
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My point is , most of the arguements which favor homosexuality apply to zoosexuality as well. And i find people who support one and find the other sickening highly inconsistent.
Where does 2 consenting adults feature in zoosexuality?

How do you take consent of an animal for sexual acts? Please enlighten us.
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Old 14th July 2009, 20:09   #254
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I'm not sure - don't have any pets myself. But I imagine an unrestrained animal's objection to anything would be obvious - pretty much the same reactions if you tried to kill it or harm it. I don't think it would be able to testify in court about it though

Last edited by greenhorn : 14th July 2009 at 20:15.
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Old 14th July 2009, 20:55   #255
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@ AAG - Good points mate!

BTW, there is another law:

DELHI POLICE ACT 1978 -
Prohibition against flying kites, etc. 94.Prohibition against flying kites, etc.- No person shall fly a kite or any other thing so as to cause danger, injury or alarm to persons, animals or property.
READ HERE

All those opposing the viewpoint of the HC and the SC, please think about it. What if there was a social taboo about flying kites? And the police got after you in the park while you were doing exactly that? And harassed you, put you in jail etc. Almost the same case with our gay friends. They cannot help being gay and are being harassed for it. That they need not be now is what Sam and the others are happy about.

Now whether the LGBT community is wrong in being gay is another question - something none of us have the authority to pass judgement on.

P.S. There actually is a law in the IPC that states that the flying of kites is illegal. It was put in place by the Brits because they felt that kites had a signalling potential on the battlefield / could be used for spying etc. I do not know if the law still exists.
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