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Old 5th July 2009, 00:58   #121
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Originally Posted by dockap View Post
----now do you understand why its un natural
No I still don't understand. I've always had sex for pleasure and I don't need nat geo or discovery to tell me that it's unnatural because the producers and directors of that show also have sex for pleasure. By your reasoning, using contraceptives or adopting family planning is unnatural because it prevents reproduction. By your reasoning, people who have been told by their doctors that they are infertile (not necessarily impotent) shouldn't have sex because they can't reproduce.

Oh, and since you are comparing human beings with animals, have you seen those shows on animal planet/discovery where they discuss how in some animal species, some males devour their own offsprings? If they do it, does that mean we should too? C'mon if rabbits mate only for reproduction, should all human beings who mate for pleasure be termed as unnatural? The only thing that is natural is evolution, the natural order of things dictate that the weak and the unnatural eventually die out, but gays have been around for centuries and they have only grown in number, so I don't think nature is biased against gays, then why should we be?
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Old 5th July 2009, 00:59   #122
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+1 to hunterz. Ten or Twenty years down the line, with the media frenzy about homosexuality already at this level, I dont know what it will be like. I dont want to impose anything on my kids, and to be honest, dont want to block anything from them. i want them to have their own views. But judging by the way that anorexia is subliminally projected onto impressionable young girls nowadays. I have no idea what my kids will be subected to. I certainly dont want to be the one wanting to block " and Tango Makes Three" from school libraries, but at the same time keep them protected from subliminal delivery of ideas.

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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
I understand what you're saying.

I would not like to expose my offspring to any deviance. Rather I don't want to be the one to bring it up first.

However, with the way things are going, the information overload, MTV and the internet, oh God the internet...
as i said earlier, i dont mind my offspring being exposed to any deviance. They must learn the ways of the world, and i will not be able to protect them from everything. I dont want to make ideas safe for children, but I want to make my children safe for new ideas. But misinformation , especially the subliminal type is something poor kids might not be able to know it for what it is.
Heck, after the first few months of cable, at Age 14, would you believe that I was under the impression that underage sex was perfectly normal and legal. It's a good thing i didn't have to find out the hard way that it wasn't

Last edited by greenhorn : 5th July 2009 at 01:14.
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Old 5th July 2009, 01:00   #123
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Originally Posted by dockap View Post
and about whats un natural about being gay-
from the smallest single cell organism to the largest-blue wale and smartest animal-man primary function is to reproduce so that the species continues to thrive
have you seen animal planet,discovery or nat geo every organism wants to mate and produce offspring to continue their species some even die after mating-their last act in life but still they do it because they have been programed to do it
now why would they do it cause in addition to the programing god has made the act so pleasureable so that they reproduce and life continues

imagine tomorrow all the male lions in africa decide gay is the in thing and start humping each other within 10 years there willl be no lions in africa
same way tomorrow if everyone in this world says hey gay is so cool whats wrong with it within the next 100 years planet earth will not have any more humans on it ----now do you understand why its un natural
precisely my point.

but then people here are questioning that reproduction is the purpose of sex as nature intended it.

Charles Darwin must be spasming in his grave.
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Old 5th July 2009, 01:04   #124
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Originally Posted by hell_rider View Post
sam,

I'm sorry but i think its you guys who have it confused and are mixing issues.
Apology accepted. Like you yourself said, "but I think". I also agree. It's what "you think", not what "you know".
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Old 5th July 2009, 01:06   #125
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Originally Posted by Astleviz View Post
Oh, and since you are comparing human beings with animals, have you seen those shows on animal planet/discovery where they discuss how in some animal species, some males devour their own offsprings? If they do it, does that mean we should too?
i have seen the one where male lions kill the lionesses' offspring from her earlier mates when they take over the pride. this causes the lionesses to come in heat, and then the lions mate with them, so that they can propogate their own genes.

another thing is with chimps. extremely ordered society. when a female leaves the group, but rejoins it later with a child hanging onto her, the chimps realise that her offspring is not from a male from the group. they kill the baby chimp, and make a ritual of eating its various body parts. this is done to set an example to the other females. the objective being the same as above lions. to propogate your own genes.

i am unsure if you are quoting some other example. if you are, please share. always open to new learning.

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Apology accepted. Like you yourself said, "but I think". I also agree. It's what "you think", not what "you know".
i was apologizing to sam. so its not for you to accept actually.

Last edited by Aditya : 5th July 2009 at 06:30.
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Old 5th July 2009, 01:08   #126
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but then people here are questioning that reproduction is the purpose of sex as nature intended it.
Oh, it's not "people" who are questioning. It's "unnatural" people like me who have mated with their partners hundreds of times but have not produced hundreds of children to show for it. Diseased, we are, I tell you, who don't have a child for every time we have had sex.

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i was apologizing to sam. so its not for you to accept actually.
Ok, I accept and appreciate the fact that you see the folly of your ways and have apologised to Sam. Is there a problem with that too?

Last edited by Aditya : 5th July 2009 at 06:29.
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Old 5th July 2009, 01:12   #127
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Originally Posted by hell_rider View Post
Charles Darwin must be spasming in his grave.
I agree, lol.

Here's an article from the Times we might find interesting, especially someone else who quoted Animal planet and National Geographic. Wrong example, lol.

The highest population of same-sex or gay relationships amongst all animals is with Bottlenose Dolphins.

Toads have sex with both sexes of ther species.

One fourth of all bearded vulture mountings are male-to-male.

Quote:
Charles Darwin argued that sexual preferences can shape the progress of evolution, creating displays, such as the peacock’s tail, that are inexplicable by natural selection alone.
It’s safe to say, however, that he did not anticipate the lesbian albatrosses of Hawaii. Nor bisexual bonobos. Let alone sadomasochistic bat bugs or the gay penguins of New York.
Homosexuality is so widespread among some animal species that it can reshape their social dynamics and even change their DNA, according to the first peer-reviewed survey of research on the subject.
The rest of the article here: Lesbian albatrosses and bisexual bonobos have last laugh on Darwin - Times Online

Quite funny actually.

And Hell Rider, more than 10% of all reptile offspring are eaten by their parents, I think he was quoting that example.

Guys, we really need to ease up. Too much tension in this room. Chalo, everybody, lets have a coffee and breathe slowly. Let's not spiral this thread into deletion.

Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 5th July 2009 at 01:17.
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Old 5th July 2009, 01:20   #128
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Originally Posted by hell_rider View Post
i am unsure if you are quoting some other example. if you are, please share. always open to new learning.
Maternal Infanticide

Maternal infanticide occurs when newborn offspring are killed by their mother. This is sometimes seen in pigs, a behavior known as savaging which affects up to 5% of gilts. Similar behavior has been observed in various animals such as rabbits and burying beetles.
(source wikipedia)

This is just one example, I could look up and provide you with a lot more info on this but let's keep this for a discussion on animal life on another post.

And boys, I don't know about you but I am about to hit the bunk, so cheers and good night. I have advocated enough on behalf of gays without pay, now let the actual gays speak up, I want to go back to reading about and discussing cars
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Old 5th July 2009, 01:23   #129
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Originally Posted by Astleviz View Post
Oh, it's not "people" who are questioning. It's "unnatural" people like me who have mated with their partners hundreds of times but have not produced hundreds of children to show for it. Diseased, we are, I tell you, who don't have a child for every time we have had sex.
astleviz
i don't have hundreds of children either and i have mated too, a number of times with my partners (though i don't keep count).

point being, i am saying its unnatural in the sense that it is against the order of nature. now if the world "unnatural" has some other unpalatable or disturbing connotations to you, thats not my problem really now, is it ???

fact of the matter is technically, when we use child birth, we are trying to go against nature. because left alone without contraception, as a result of the NATURAL PROCESS the women WILL GET pregnant. why is it so hard to understand ???

tell me something. is your problem with the correctness or incorrectness of what i am saying or is your problem with the word "unnatural" ??
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Old 5th July 2009, 01:23   #130
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post

Guys, we really need to ease up. Too much tension in this room. Chalo, everybody, lets have a coffee and breathe slowly. Let's not spiral this thread into deletion.
Ah! Coffee! But I was planning to go to bed. I promise to stay up if we can go back to discussing cars, else I am off to sleepsville.
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Old 5th July 2009, 01:27   #131
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Ok, I accept and appreciate the fact that you see the folly of your ways and have apologised to Sam. Is there a problem with that too?
LOL. actually like i said earlier, it is not for you to to accept. as for your appreciation, i couldn't really care less.

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Originally Posted by Astleviz View Post
Maternal Infanticide

Maternal infanticide occurs when newborn offspring are killed by their mother. This is sometimes seen in pigs, a behavior known as savaging which affects up to 5% of gilts. Similar behavior has been observed in various animals such as rabbits and burying beetles.
(source wikipedia)

This is just one example, I could look up and provide you with a lot more info on this but let's keep this for a discussion on animal life on another post.
fair enough. thanks for the info. i will need to look it up though as to how exactly this is relevant to our discussion here, in terms of propogation of species / genes.
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Old 5th July 2009, 01:27   #132
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tell me something. is your problem with the correctness or incorrectness of what i am saying or is your problem with the word "unnatural" ??
My problem is I have run out of sugarfree and Sam wants us to have coffee so we can discuss this some more. And I like my coffee black and strong and sweet and I don't take sugar. As of now, that for me is a bigger problem than other's sexual orientations.
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Old 5th July 2009, 01:28   #133
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Wow some interesting views on this topic. Firstly, I must congratulate the High Court for making a humane decision, and giving the fundamental right back to the citizens.

If you look at it from a legal perspective, it should not be illegal for someone to choose their sexual preference. Now that may or may not be influenced by the internet, media, TV etc., but that's not for the court to decide. By giving this verdict, the High Court enables YOU to make that choice, without any legal implications.

Now there is a big bad world out there. There's greed, infidelity, corruption, hypocrisy etc. everywhere, but it's for you to decide which path you want to choose. We tend to blame it on the western world and conveniently wash our hands off of it. That way if we ever stray on to one of those paths, we have someone else to blame it on. How's that making you a better person?

If homosexuality is a disease or disorder (according to some people here) and should be frowned upon or not openly exhibited, then shouldn't that be the same case with cancer, HIV, and other patients? So do we just tell them to go die in hell and not bother us good healthy people?

Or if it's not a disease or disorder, then what's wrong with it? Would you not like Elton John's music because he is openly gay?

Remember you are who you choose to be. No High Court, MTV, western culture can make that decision for ya. If they are doing so, then you need to be stronger.
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Old 5th July 2009, 01:30   #134
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Originally Posted by hell_rider View Post
astleviz
i have mated too, a number of times with my partners (though i don't keep count).
Wow! It must be nice to have many partners.

Me, I have one and I count her every single morning and she's still umm.. one.
Every damn day.

I'll quote Jonathan Atherton (we went to see his comedy show last week in Mumbai) -

She reached into my pants. That's when I knew she was a man.

The grip was absolutely perfect.

Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 5th July 2009 at 01:36.
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Old 5th July 2009, 01:30   #135
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My problem is I have run out of sugarfree and Sam wants us to have coffee so we can discuss this some more. And I like my coffee black and strong and sweet and I don't take sugar. As of now, that for me is a bigger problem than other's sexual orientations.
come on now. i am making a sincere effort as to what part of my opinion you do not agree with. hence the question. surely you can't say my question wasn't a fair one. i would really like to know what it is about "unnatural" that really riles you.
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