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Old 21st July 2009, 15:18   #16
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I guess it a was protocol issue and it should taken up at that level with the concerned authorities. I can see people's passion are igniting, but I truly admire Kalam's wisdom in keeping it completely low profile about the incident.
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Old 21st July 2009, 15:32   #17
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Dr. Kalam is truly a great guy, but the Conitental Airlines should and must issue an apology for this. After all, how can they breach a protocol , even after being informed about it. The Civil Aviation minister must follow this case to a logical end. Imagine how US will react if same thing had happen to their personnel.
shameful indeed on part of continental Airlines.
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Old 21st July 2009, 15:47   #18
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APJ abdul kalam was the no 1 citizen of india and a former president

continental airlines did'nt follow the protocol and they needs to be taught a lesson.

i respect abdul kalam very much, he did'nt even make it as a big issue.
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Old 21st July 2009, 16:10   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
I don't see anything wrong in it. They checked him like a civilian, fine. No issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by typeOnegative View Post
I think the incident just highlights the following:

1. That Kalam is a great guy
2. Continental was doing its job
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Originally Posted by ASHISHPALLOD View Post
Yours is valid point.
No one is against frisking. As per some posts, continental was doing their duty/job.
Point here is that when protocol officer says that the passenger is ex president of India then also continental insist the frisking. That means they are not bothered about the protocol.
Do continental airlines frisk ex US President if he is returning from India to US?
+1 to all of the above.
This issue should be investigated IMO though i dont feel frisking was wrong but as rightly said its about the post and not an individual.
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Old 21st July 2009, 17:51   #20
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hi guys, here is an update about the incident from Continental Airlines.
Kalam is not exempt from frisking: Continental Airlines - India - NEWS - The Times of India

They say they checked him during the final boarding at the aerobridge. I really dont think the reply is proper and just.
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Old 21st July 2009, 20:18   #21
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To be very frank, the only reason I started this tread was because it was Dr. Kalam. If it was any other politician, I would have ignored the news.

I'm hardly the type to raise the 'nationalist' hype for incidents. In most thread that have such themes, I normally avoid posting or even (in the case of the 'Racism in Australia' thread) posted against such vocal nationalistic outburst that had happened.

Now, the points that really got me upset was
1. It was Dr. Kalam who was subjected to this.
2. There was an official protocol in place, that is supposed to be signed in agreement by all airlines for operating in India, that lists out 18 categories of people who are exempt from security process. CA obviously willingly went against what they agreed to, or knowingly signed an agreement knowing they cannot meet some of the terms.
3. There is something called diplomatic courtesy. If this is to be ignored for the sake of security, then fine. Let all other similar gestures be also removed from our side, as we certainly need to have as much security measures as other nations!

Once again, I'm not against frisking of passengers. It is required and serves as a good deterrent. Therefore, it would only be logical and fair, if all our airlines flying from abroad, do the same to each and every passenger who fly, as we too need to be careful of our aircraft security and passenger safety. Who knows, we may identify overbooked passengers in the process!

On a side note, I have absolutely no problems with removing the VIP exempt list, so that all fly as equals. I have no wish to fly next to a VIP who may be carrying a weapon on board. But if there is an agreed protocol in place, breaking it is just not right. Either have it and follow it, else remove it.

(Warning: Hearsay remark): CA is alleged to have a poor reputation in their treatment towards passengers from the Indian subcontinent.

Last edited by DriverR : 21st July 2009 at 20:27.
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Old 21st July 2009, 21:37   #22
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Just shows how down to earth and humble Dr Kalam Ji really is. Can you imagine the furore some of the 2 cent politicians would have created over this if it had been them. We would have had effigies of Continental Ailine jets being burned in Delhi and it would have been in every newspaper.
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Old 21st July 2009, 21:55   #23
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Instead of whining about it, India should return the favor and do the same to Hillary Clinton.

Then, the CBI should investigate Continental, and slap huge fines on them for any and every minor infraction of safety violations, bookeeping errors, etc. Or pick up some of Continental's execs that have any dirt on them and throw them in a lock up for a couple of days, etc. Deny Contintental docking rights, delay their flights, etc. Keep doing this until Continental's president/CEO makes a public apology to Dr. Kalam. I guarantee something like this will never happen again.
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Old 21st July 2009, 23:07   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMM340 View Post
Instead of whining about it, India should return the favor and do the same to Hillary Clinton.

Then, the CBI should investigate Continental, and slap huge fines on them for any and every minor infraction of safety violations, bookeeping errors, etc. Or pick up some of Continental's execs that have any dirt on them and throw them in a lock up for a couple of days, etc. Deny Contintental docking rights, delay their flights, etc. Keep doing this until Continental's president/CEO makes a public apology to Dr. Kalam. I guarantee something like this will never happen again.
What?! That would be behaving in a totally immature manner. We are no banana republic so let us not behave like one.

I am saddened by the attitude of Continental. If they were informed that Dr.Kalam ex-president was flying with them, they should have, as a matter of courtesy, treated Dr. Kalam as if he were the President. That is what a gentleman would have done.

The protocol list mentioned here applies to Indians in India undergoing security check by Government of India forces. I do not think it applies to private institutions more so foreign private enterprises.

Proper protocol is maintained for state visits by Indian dignitaries visiting abroad according to the customs and protocol of the host nation. Likewise if a foreign dignitary visits India in his personal capacity for a private visit - he may or may not be accorded the status of a state guest. Only if he is treated as a state guest the appropriate protocol is maintained (which is lower than if he were on a state visit).

The same principles apply to dignitaries from one state visiting another state within India.

Dr. Kalam behaved like a gentleman and ignored the incident while a lesser man would have raised a hue and cry. Though Continental's behaviour is not commendable, they were perhaps not in the wrong technically.

Cheers,

Last edited by Ravveendrra : 21st July 2009 at 23:08.
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Old 21st July 2009, 23:18   #25
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Quote:
Though Continental's behaviour is not commendable, they were perhaps not in the wrong technically.
They are wrong technically, officially, unoficially and in every way possible.
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Old 21st July 2009, 23:23   #26
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I think slapping FIR against the Continental is a good step ahead. They just seems so inconsiderate thinking they have not done anything wrong. This is unpardonable.I think our Government is going to pursue it seriously for once.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 01:36   #27
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Actually Ravveendrra, Praful Patel has already mentioned that the protocol is applicable on even a regular commercial airliner. When the airline is operating from India it is the Indian laws which are applicable here. So if the protocol says no frisking they are talking bull when they quote TSA rules etc. Only place where the laws of the land are not applicable are in the embassies if I am not mistaken. Moreover, the points are

1. GOI has long back informed all the operating airlines about the protocol and the list. So Continental should have raised the flag much earlier and exited India if they thought that they can not accept such rules. Veering off the course later tantamounts to wilful violation IMO.

2. A sovereign government's guarantee is taken as the highest assurance that one can get. That is why in tricky situations government counter guarantees in some cases for an easy solution, be it international borrowings or pacts. When the government has said that these dignitaries (no less than an ex-president) are above doubt and hence needs to be exempted it means they are vouching for the person. So some rubbish about how it is the regular practice of Continental simply shows that they do not grasp the nuances of international diplomatic terms, finer underlinings etc.

I think this simply shows the callousness on the part of Continental and nothing else. Moreover, I would like to know how US would have reacted had one of its ex-presidents, say Clinton, were to be strip-searched before boarding a foreign airliner.
Or for that matter, would Continental have dared to do such a thing if Clinton were to be boarding a flight to US from India. Remember, they very cleverly say that the rules says any passenger boarding a flight to US, so the opposite is not true. Presumably anyone in US can board a flight without all the hassles and land up here with a gun or a bomb and Continental will not give two hoots about it.

Last edited by Zappo : 22nd July 2009 at 01:38.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 09:52   #28
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There is no need for tit-for-tit with Hilary Clinton. We don't need to stoop to CA's level. But CA should be made to pay a huge fine for breech of protocol. If they started breaking rules of diplomacy, what next?

Most of you may not remember this. In 2001-02, there was an incident where Al Gore was thoroughly frisked by newly formed TSA in some domestic US airport. They were trying to prove that everybody is equal in their eyes. Although he didn't complain, it did cause a huge uproar. If Al Gore, who had got more actual votes than George W Bush just a year before was treated like a potential terrorist, what does it say about rights of a normal citizen? It shows the flaws in such blind security policies.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 09:59   #29
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Two points
1. I think that what is wrong is that the rest of the categories are exempt, and not that he was frisked. How are they any different from the rest of us? That is the root cause for this incident. And Robert Vadra being exempt too? Give me a break.
2. I also think that we are being the usual thin skinned Indians about very minor things. While we remain thick skinned about a lot of things that are wrong, even shameful inside our country.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 10:08   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
There is no need for tit-for-tit with Hilary Clinton. We don't need to stoop to CA's level......

Was that intentional? Sorry couldn't stop laughing..
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