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Old 22nd July 2009, 11:19   #46
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Don't understand what the fuss is all about. It looks like our media lacks any juicy stories, the Opposition is grasping at straws, and both are pumping as much fuel into this as they can.
Of course Continental was right. TSA rules mandate a final check on the aerobridge and there are no exceptions. If they did not follow these rules, they could conceivably lose their license.
Mr Kalam is the last person who would want such a fuss made about a routine check that took probably a couple of minutes, and happened a month back. He has a better sense of self-worth than most of us who feel that kowtowing is a measure of respect.

If there is a security rule in India, and an exPresident of the US was made to follow it on a routine private visit to India, I doubt it would make any space in the US press, except perhaps gutter tabloids!
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Old 22nd July 2009, 11:43   #47
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It makes for a ruckus here because as a nation we are still insecure in so many ways, and are quick to perceive the slightest thing as a grave insult to our fragile egos. As we grow as a nation, we will grow out of this infantile behaviour as well. Indeed, the US still does a lot of flag waving at home, the British, that are even older than them as one nation, find the whole flag thing embarrassing.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 13:11   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DriverR View Post
To be very frank, the only reason I started this tread was because it was Dr. Kalam. If it was any other politician, I would have ignored the news.
Some of our politicians, maybe, ought to be singled out for extra security checks!

However, as you go one to say, whether it is Kalam, with his 100% integrity, or some politician who only keeps the criminal charges at bay through influence, there are still rules, and Continental broke them.
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Originally Posted by hvkumar View Post
Everyone is the same, rules cannot be changed for one person.
But they can be changed for one company? It was Continental that broke the rules.

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Originally Posted by filcord View Post
TSA rules mandate a final check on the aerobridge and there are no exceptions. If they did not follow these rules, they could conceivably lose their license.
TSA have become world famous for their ridiculous "security" and the intimidating approach that they have to travellers, both American and non-American, and their utter disprespect for civil rights. They are quite enough to have put off many people travelling to USA, and should probably be disbanded and replaced with sensible rules implemented by people who are not ego thugs.

TSA rules mean nothing in India. Lets keep it that way!

Kalam, being the extraordinary individual that he is, probably forgot about it there and then. I don't think the Indian government should. USA is not famous for respect of the laws of other nations. I think there should be an apology

(and a life-time free upgrade for ex-pres Kalam ...)
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Old 22nd July 2009, 13:53   #49
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What ever people say It is an Insult. You dont go about frisking George Bush in US when he is boarding the flight or do they? In India or for that matter anyplace in this world frisking an ex head of state is an absolute no go. It is this practicality with national pride that is becoming so common these days that is causing us to buckle under pressures from all the so called developed and mighty world.
Continental should not only be hauled up but fined as well. They even dared to ignore the government notice because they know we have a short memory and soon we will forget the whole issue and they being a US airline will get away with almost anything.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 14:47   #50
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ITs a real shame to our country that nothing is done till date. A shocking incident. The airlines must be stopped until they gave an apology. Looks like we have a very weak government at the front, who dont have the balls to do anything. Its going to 26/11/ 2009 soon and we are still talking to Pakistan, if it was the US they would have just gone ahead and bombed the J&K terror camps.

Why are we so weak in our mind and dont have the guts to do anything, people are already forgetting 26/11 Mumbai attacks. A big hue & cry is done when ever any incident like this happens and then its back to square one. I don't think atleast in my life that India will every do something.

MERA BHARATH MAHAN
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Old 22nd July 2009, 14:56   #51
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
There is no need for tit-for-tit with Hilary Clinton. We don't need to stoop to CA's level. But CA should be made to pay a huge fine for breech of protocol. If they started breaking rules of diplomacy, what next?

Most of you may not remember this. In 2001-02, there was an incident where Al Gore was thoroughly frisked by newly formed TSA in some domestic US airport. They were trying to prove that everybody is equal in their eyes. Although he didn't complain, it did cause a huge uproar. If Al Gore, who had got more actual votes than George W Bush just a year before was treated like a potential terrorist, what does it say about rights of a normal citizen? It shows the flaws in such blind security policies.
Is is me, or is thouroughly frisked pretty normal. Or do you mean something like a strip search or worse?
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Old 22nd July 2009, 15:04   #52
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Because the protocol established for ex-presidents is an Indian rule and airlines flying in to India and getting business agreed to it before hand.
yeah but thats still no reason to hype it up.


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There is something known as protocol if you understand what that word means and it carries a big value in world of diplomacy.
no i dont understand what protocol means could you please explain
i dont care how big that word is in a world of diplomacay but i as a passenger on an airline would like to know that every person whether a commoner or VIP is put through similar security checks to ensure the safety of the aircraft.


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Security procedures of the land apply to any kind of aircraft flying in world of diplomacy it is known as black carpet treatment.
It can be given on any airliner chartered , commercial or a foreign government.
your wrong here buddy.it wasnt Airport security that frisked him.it was continental working under the rules of TSA and the FAA.


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They fly some or other commercial airliner , US does not provide them chartered plane.
im sure your fully aware of their travel arrangements.so ill leave this out.but just to burst your bubble i can name 2 ex US presidents who fly in their own jet.

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Originally Posted by ASHISHPALLOD View Post
I know it.

She entered in India flying in her own plane.

Then all passengers and plane should be thoroughly checked by Indian security guards.

Ex us presidents don't fly conti because they know the bad reputation of conti. Isn't it?

if you knew she flew in her own plane why did you ask "why didnt continental frisk her"

all passengers are checked by airport security.this frisking was done by the airline jus before boarding.


any way im not defending continental.personally i feel its a **** airline.but i jus hate the fact that the media hyps this stuff up.


rev
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Old 22nd July 2009, 15:27   #53
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Originally Posted by ASHISHPALLOD View Post
Six years back, defense minister Mr. George Fernandis got similar treatment at us airport.

then by this logic, us secretary of states should have given similar treatment while she was in India and claim that checked like civilian, fine, no issue.
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Originally Posted by revtech View Post
if you knew she flew in her own plane why did you ask "why didnt continental frisk her"
rev
In my above post, where do you read " why didnt continental frisk her".

I said,
then by this logic[ logic of treatment given to Indian defense minister]- she should have given same treatment-[ by Indian security guards] -while she was in India-[ whether came here by her own aircraft or other airline]-and claim that checked like civilian.

Fine,

No issue.

Last edited by ASHISHPALLOD : 22nd July 2009 at 15:35.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 15:44   #54
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This is a different angle to the issue : Govt. of India has never had the opportunity of evaluating the requirements of travel of ex-Presidents because all our previous ex-Presidents were either crippled or ready to retire to some peaceful location to spend rest of their lives. But Dr.Kalam is an exception who is still in public life and quite mobile too. Thus new procedures and protocol officers are needed to escort the ex-President. Hopefully this incident would now expedite the matter.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 18:47   #55
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TSA have become world famous for their ridiculous "security" and the intimidating approach that they have to travellers, both American and non-American, and their utter disprespect for civil rights. They are quite enough to have put off many people travelling to USA, and should probably be disbanded and replaced with sensible rules implemented by people who are not ego thugs.

TSA rules mean nothing in India. Lets keep it that way!
I fully agree that TSa is over the top. I personally have been frisked and palpated at US airports, and hope never to have to fly there again. But the issue is that Continental is duty-bound to follow their rules, and infractions of TSA rules are viewed very seriously in the US.

See the statement issued by Continental after it apologised to Kalam:

"We note that the regulations of the TSA and its Indian equivalent, the Bureau of Civil Aviation Security, were sometimes incompatible. We hope the respective government authorities resolve these differences at the earliest in order to avoid any recurrence of this situation in the future,".

They are caught between a rock and a hard place.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 19:01   #56
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Originally Posted by filcord View Post
I fully agree that TSa is over the top. I personally have been frisked and palpated at US airports, and hope never to have to fly there again. But the issue is that Continental is duty-bound to follow their rules, and infractions of TSA rules are viewed very seriously in the US.

See the statement issued by Continental after it apologised to Kalam:

"We note that the regulations of the TSA and its Indian equivalent, the Bureau of Civil Aviation Security, were sometimes incompatible. We hope the respective government authorities resolve these differences at the earliest in order to avoid any recurrence of this situation in the future,".

They are caught between a rock and a hard place.
Filcord, I am rather surprised that you are more concerned about TSA and American rules that CA has to follow than the rules of Indian land, where we all are including CA and Dr. Kalam.

Why do we give a damn about TSA rules or CA's obligations? If they have agreed to obey laws of the land here, they better do that or get lost, than telling us about laws applicable few thousand miles away from Indian shores.

I am also surprised with callous attitude towards this affair by fellow Indians. If we don't know how to treat ourselves with respect, why should an American care about us?

And about those, who think this comes out of insecurity, let CA try doing this with Chinese or Russian or even French premier. Most likely, they would be kicked out of those countries next day.

I certainly don't think this is over hyped media issue. This is much more sensitive issue related to topmost post of India and not to be taken lightly.

About frisking each and every person without giving special treatment to VIPs, I am all for it. But, that has absolutely nothing to do with it. CA failed to respect India's ex "First Person" despite clearly knowing it is against rule and they must be penalized for it.

Let's see what our great government does in this regard. We already have seen flip-flops on critical national issues in last 2 weeks.

Last edited by RX135 : 22nd July 2009 at 19:03.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 19:51   #57
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Originally Posted by lurker View Post
How do you think US would have behaved/reacted if an Indian airlines imposed it's own set of 'rules' security or otherwise in an American airport ?
The question my friend is why Indian airlines do not behave the same way Continental has? Actually I am quite glad that they (Continental) are frisking everyone, protocol be damned. And knowing Dr. Kalam, he does not give a rat's a*se about being frisked either.


P.S. That story about the Zen monks was really good. Thanks Sawyer.

EDIT

This is what has been mentioned in a web article:

Quote:
Indian laws exempt dignitaries like former presidents, ex-PMs, Chief Justice of India and even Robert Vadra from being frisked at airports.
Click here for the whole story

Would there have been a brouhaha over Mr. Vadra as well?

Last edited by typeOnegative : 22nd July 2009 at 20:07. Reason: Grammar ...
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Old 22nd July 2009, 20:50   #58
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Did Kalam tell the airline folks that he was an ex-President?
Does he walk around with a sign board announcing his identity?
Did the Conti people know by any other means.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 20:55   #59
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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Did Kalam tell the airline folks that he was an ex-President?
Does he walk around with a sign board announcing his identity?
Did the Conti people know by any other means.
No.
No.
Yes.

There was protocol officer along with Dr. Kalam, who protested saying that this is against protocol, but CA security went ahead ignoring him.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 21:00   #60
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@Mpower- In Addition to what RX said he was accompanied by guards(I believe all ex Prez have this cover) who had notified the Conti people.
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