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Old 22nd July 2009, 21:14   #61
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We constantly demonstrated that either we are extremely tolerant people or we can be easily pushed around. First pakistan and terrorists, then the racism in Australia, frisking of our defense minister and now of our ex president. I said this before and will say it again, how come the chinese dont tolerate these kind of things? If anything they show the US and others that they can be very serious about things.

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Old 22nd July 2009, 21:27   #62
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There was protocol officer along with Dr. Kalam, who protested saying that this is against protocol, but CA security went ahead ignoring him.
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Filcord, I am rather surprised that you are more concerned about TSA and American rules that CA has to follow than the rules of Indian land....

About frisking each and every person without giving special treatment to VIPs, I am all for it. But, that has absolutely nothing to do with it.
You missed the point sir.
Firstly there was no protocol officer accompanying Dr Kalam. All reports say that he travelled without any accompanying protocol officer, there was no announcement of his status, and that some CISF guys protested. Dr Kalam is such an unassuming person, it's exactly how he travels, no fuss and red-carpet.

Secondly this is all about "frisking each and every person without giving special treatment to VIPs" . In India of course every politician, MP or other elected "servant" of the people will trumpet his importance and insist on being made an exception to the rules. The instances of this are simply too numerous to mention here.

Let's get some perspective here. Continental were just doing their job. If I was flying on that plane I would feel safe knowing they did a thorough security check. And I'm sure Dr Kalam felt the same way that day.

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Old 22nd July 2009, 21:50   #63
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Let's get some perspective here. Continental were just doing their job. If I was flying on that plane I would feel safe knowing they did a thorough security check. And I'm sure Dr Kalam felt the same way that day.
Kalam is not just any other politician. He is probably the only one VIP who is respected by the masses and that is what is causing large scale resentment. Had it been DeveGowda, I think every body would have been laughing at it.
Lastly, does CA does this for any US ex presidents??? Not a chance...
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Old 22nd July 2009, 22:03   #64
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Kalam is not just any other politician. He is probably the only one VIP who is respected by the masses and that is what is causing large scale resentment. Had it been DeveGowda, I think every body would have been laughing at it.
Lastly, does CA does this for any US ex presidents??? Not a chance...
Its not just about treating everyone equal as some people have expressed here. Come on, we elect these people and the post they decorate are extremely important ones for us. Lets not try to smirk away from that fact.
Also, why are we defending CA against the rules of our land?
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Old 22nd July 2009, 22:15   #65
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Default Continental apologises for frisking Kalam

Matter should be rested now.
Continental apologises for frisking Kalam - India - NEWS - The Times of India
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Old 22nd July 2009, 23:55   #66
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Its not just about treating everyone equal as some people have expressed here. Come on, we elect these people and the post they decorate are extremely important ones for us. Lets not try to smirk away from that fact.
Also, why are we defending CA against the rules of our land?
Abdul Kalam wasnt elected though .
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Old 23rd July 2009, 00:04   #67
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Would there have been a brouhaha over Mr. Vadra as well?
Probably would have been, but why is he on the list anyway? He is not a former President and your average Tom, Dick or Hardeep would not recognise him.
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Old 23rd July 2009, 00:15   #68
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Lastly, does CA does this for any US ex presidents??? Not a chance...
In US they don't use the term ex-president. If I am not mistaken, they are addressed as Mr.President till they die.

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Abdul Kalam wasnt elected though .
There are still many things you need to learn about our country you Yank. The Indian President is elected by MPs and MLAs by an actual vote. They generally follow the party whip, still they vote.
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Old 23rd July 2009, 00:23   #69
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In US they don't use the term ex-president. If I am not mistaken, they are addressed as Mr.President till they die.

There are still many things you need to learn about our country you Yank. The Indian President is elected by MPs and MLAs by an actual vote. They generally follow the party whip, still they vote.
what i meant was by the people directly .
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Old 23rd July 2009, 00:29   #70
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You missed the point sir.
Firstly there was no protocol officer accompanying Dr Kalam. All reports say that he travelled without any accompanying protocol officer, there was no announcement of his status, and that some CISF guys protested.

Secondly this is all about "frisking each and every person without giving special treatment to VIPs" . In India of course every politician, MP or other elected "servant" of the people will trumpet his importance and insist on being made an exception to the rules. The instances of this are simply too numerous to mention here.

Let's get some perspective here. Continental were just doing their job. If I was flying on that plane I would feel safe knowing they did a thorough security check. And I'm sure Dr Kalam felt the same way that day.
No. Several reports have mentioned that the VIP protocol officer had objected to it and CISF, who has responsibility of the security, had strongly objected to this frisking. There are several reports on internet and I read it in print media as well. CA is not responsible for security.

I don't understand, why are we hell bent on defending CA, when it is very obvious that, what they did, was not as per Indian Law. An FIR is filed, CA has tendered apology to Dr. Kalam and the matter is being investigated.

It is not a question of creating a fuss over it. It is not about an individual but it is about dignity of that post.

Several VIPs are bunch of crooks, but that's totally separate matter. When they represent India to external world, dignity of the post has to be maintained.
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Old 23rd July 2009, 01:02   #71
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I wonder if Air India would have frisked him if he was flying to the US? If they dont they violate TSA rules and if they do, then they violate Indian rules. Either way they get screwed Perhaps it was a clever move to fly Continental in that case.
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Old 23rd July 2009, 01:30   #72
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This protocol of not frisking ex presidents is not unique to India, but international.
For example when heads or ex heads of state come visiting form US, they are not frisked in India, and vice a versa.
Whether it was right or wrong its a different matter, but legally a protocol was breached, and CA can be fined for that.
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Old 23rd July 2009, 01:32   #73
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Aviation authorities had on Tuesday sought an FIR against Continental for making Kalam take off his shoes and undergo a humiliating security check at Delhi airport before being allowed to board flight CO 083 to Newark on April 21.
this caught my attention though. Is it humiliating only because he is ex-prez, or it's always been humiliating?
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Old 23rd July 2009, 10:52   #74
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this caught my attention though. Is it humiliating only because he is ex-prez, or it's always been humiliating?
Yes, when an ordinary mortal like me has to take off his belt and shoes, then help my two year old with his shoes, then my 80 year old mother with her stuff...

We have too much ego, and it's too fragile. The true strength of an individual is to let these annoyances pass, after all, I know the TSA guards don't have it in for me, or for Indians as a race, they are just doing their jobs.
There was an excellent discussion on CNN-IBN last night, I particularly liked the statements of Mr Subramaniam, a retired civil servant. The general opinion was that our VIPs get too much fuss made of them, and a whopping 80-odd percent of persons who called in agreed with this.

Last edited by filcord : 23rd July 2009 at 10:56.
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Old 23rd July 2009, 10:57   #75
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Post 9/11, I was frisked (thoroughly) at almost all the airports enroute to SFO and I didnt find that humiliating. Maybe it was humiliating for the govt since the protocol was breached.

PS: I would have taken-off anything for that female officer in HongKong.

Last edited by Rocky_Balboa : 23rd July 2009 at 10:59.
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