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Old 21st July 2009, 15:47   #1
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Default Help required : Need the invoice of Fiat Palio

Hi,

I recently purchased palio 1.6 GTX and I have put down my experiences in the following thread

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-drives-initial-ownership-reports/61583-my-buy\ ing-ownership-experience-palio-1-6gtx.html

Since this is MH registered vehicle, I need to re-register in Karnataka. Fortunately or unfortunately the vehicle is erroneously mentioned as 1.2 ltr in the RC book rather than 1.6 litre. The RTO in B'lore are insisting on the invoice to calculate the LTT. I tried with the several of my contacts in Concorde but they say they started selling Palios stile 1.1 and 1.6 and never the older palio 1.2.

I would appreciate if any member here who has the invoice for Palio 1.2 could please send the soft copy of the same to me.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers
Kishore
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Old 1st July 2013, 15:59   #2
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Default Help me with the Bangalore RTO!

I own a DL registered 2002 Palio EL. I moved from Delhi to Bangalore almost an year back. I have been planning to buy a new car and scrap my car or send it back to Delhi once I do. To my dismay, the Bangalore RTO officials stopped me seeing my DL registration a couple of months back. I had no toll tax bills or the like, so my license and RC was seized and I was told to pay lifetime karnataka road tax to get them back (along with a 1% fine per month of violation ~ 10 months).

Once I went to the Koramangala RTO after couple of days, with the chargesheet, I was asked for my car's invoice by the officials. Now the whole problem was that I did not have the invoice of my 10 year old car. It's my grandfather's car and he had lost the invoice. They said can't do anything about it and that I should go through an agent. I found a local agent near the office, and he said he needs 1k to get an invoice of a 2002 registered Palio EL from a Fiat dealer. 2 weeks past by and he could not do anything. After that I went for a month long vacation to Delhi.

Once I came back, I contacted the agent again. He told me to pay him 25k and he'll get the entire thing done this time (using some other means). I refused, but he insisted that it was needed to pay some officials inside to get an old invoice out of the files. I paid 15k and he agreed to get the job done.

It's been 2 weeks again and everytime I call that guy he just delays it by a couple more days. So, in total I have paid 16k to this guy and am driving without a license/RC in Bangalore since 2 months!

The reason I'm posting this to Team-BHP is to seek help in this matter. The agent is asking me if I can get an invoice of any 2002/2003 registered Palio EL, he will get the tax paid and the job will be done (and i'll just have to pay the balance after the already paid 15k to him).

Does anyone on this forum own a 2002/2003 registered Palio (in Delhi), or know anyone who does and can provide me with a copy of their invoice? Help will be much appreciated!
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Old 1st July 2013, 21:47   #3
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Default Re: Help me with the Bangalore RTO!

Ummm. Koramangala Bangalore agent told you he can get your Orginial Fiat Palio invoice from your delhi dealer? Why, even you could have done that when you went to Delhi for a month.

You got scammed when "they" said go through an "agent". Afaik there is no rule where they can demand to see the original invoice as long as your are paying the Road tax. With that logic they might as well impound your car for not being sure about who the real owner is. 16K was probably split between them & the agent.

Your request about someone lending you a copy of their invoice is downright wrong/illegal.

Last edited by Ford5 : 1st July 2013 at 21:50.
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Old 1st July 2013, 22:27   #4
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Default Re: Help me with the Bangalore RTO!

Hi guys, the reason for asking the invoice is to know the exact value of our car. in karnataka the tax is levied on the cost of the car is approx 10 % of invoice value is the life time tax amount. either try retrieving your invoice or you can ask for any invoice of 2002 palio car which they will use it as reference to levy the tax. There is nothing wrong in giving the copy of invoice.
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Old 1st July 2013, 22:46   #5
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Default Re: Help me with the Bangalore RTO!

Try if anyone at Palio Users Group (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/paliousersindia/) would have it....
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Old 1st July 2013, 23:06   #6
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Default Re: Help me with the Bangalore RTO!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford5 View Post
Afaik there is no rule where they can demand to see the original invoice as long as your are paying the Road tax.
They can't calculate road tax without looking at the invoice. That is why they ask. If you have ever tried to pay road tax for outstation vehicle, you would know this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford5 View Post
Your request about someone lending you a copy of their invoice is downright wrong/illegal.
Really, why is that illegal? Under what section?

If you don't have the original invoice to prove the original purchase, RTO will accept any invoice for the same make car, from that year or later. This is needed only to calculate road tax. For a 2002 Palio EL, they will accept even later Palio EL invoice.

There is another method I used before. Approach the local Fiat dealer and ask him for a price certificate for a 2001 model or later Palio EL. They will check their old records and issue the certificate. They will charge some fee for the same. This will be accepted by the RTO.
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Old 1st July 2013, 23:10   #7
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Moderatore note: Back to back post, use EDIT post after approval. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford5 View Post
Ummm. Koramangala Bangalore agent told you he can get your Orginial Fiat Palio invoice from your delhi dealer? Why, even you could have done that when you went to Delhi for a month.
No. Why would I have a bangalore RTO agent get my invoice from Delhi RTO? He told me he can get the officials inside to find a 2002 Palio invoice from the old RTO files.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford5 View Post
You got scammed when "they" said go through an "agent". Afaik there is no rule where they can demand to see the original invoice as long as your are paying the Road tax. With that logic they might as well impound your car for not being sure about who the real owner is. 16K was probably split between them & the agent.
Well, the official rules says you need to provide the original invoice (/copy) of the car to get the quote for tax calculation purpose. Without that, they would levy tax based on the current price of the car. The Palio model I drive was the lowest model (EL), and the new style models are priced totally differently (albiet, higher), so that wasn't an option.

You seem to have jumped to quite a weird logical conclusion about the impounding of my car . I did have the original RC (which is right now seized by the RTO), registration certificate, insurance, etc., so don't understand why you think anyone can impound my car! I have proof of ownership, not the invoice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford5 View Post
Your request about someone lending you a copy of their invoice is downright wrong/illegal.
It's not illegal. They officially need one not as a proof of purchase, but as a proof of the price of this car at that time, otherwise they are ready to charge as per the latest price! I just need to prove the price of a 2002 Palio EL to them. No FIAT showroom has those price lists anymore. The dealer my grandfather had bought it from is now shutdown!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rags View Post
Hi guys, the reason for asking the invoice is to know the exact value of our car. in karnataka the tax is levied on the cost of the car is approx 10 % of invoice value is the life time tax amount. either try retrieving your invoice or you can ask for any invoice of 2002 palio car which they will use it as reference to levy the tax. There is nothing wrong in giving the copy of invoice.
Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
If you don't have the original invoice to prove the original purchase, RTO will accept any invoice for the same make car, from that year or later. This is needed only to calculate road tax. For a 2002 Palio EL, they will accept even later Palio EL invoice.

There is another method I used before. Approach the local Fiat dealer and ask him for a price certificate for a 2001 model or later Palio EL. They will check their old records and issue the certificate. They will charge some fee for the same. This will be accepted by the RTO.
Well this is where the system is all wrong. There's no rule for what is an "acceptable" invoice. The RTO agent is taking me for a ride saying I must produce an invoice of the exact same date of registration as my car. Somewhere else, I read that the RTO maintains a price list of their own for prices of older year models of cars. The Koramangala RTO officials deny this. I think they're all ganged up in making my (and possibly future prospects)' life miserable.

Why is there no official law on this. Why is the procedure left to be so subjective. Isn't there an official rule I can show them which states that in case one does not have an invoice, so and so is the procedure (like them checking an old price list of their own). They do know that my car is a 2002 Palio seeing from the RC they have seized.

Last edited by singhangad : 1st July 2013 at 23:24. Reason: Back to back post, use EDIT post after approval. Thanks.
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Old 1st July 2013, 23:17   #8
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Default Re: Help me with the Bangalore RTO!

I would advise you check with driving schools and RTO agents' offices in Kormangala BDA complex. They would maintain price-list of all cars as they facilitate re-registration of cars.
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Old 1st July 2013, 23:40   #9
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Default Re: Help me with the Bangalore RTO!

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Originally Posted by VaahanYogi View Post
I would advise you check with driving schools and RTO agents' offices in Kormangala BDA complex. They would maintain price-list of all cars as they facilitate re-registration of cars.
The RTO would not accept price list from an agent's or driving school's office. I'll try the FIAT dealer route again. Also, I think I finally have to contact my respective Delhi RTO (and probably pay up somebody there again!) to get my original invoice. This is really a menace. Stories all over the net about people having to pay based on current price in case they didn't have an invoice.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 09:32   #10
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Default Re: Help me with the Bangalore RTO!

As per TOI dated 2nd July. Own a vehicle from another state? Pay up arrears

From July second week, the transport department (Bangalore Urban) will commence a campaign against vehicles registered outside Karnataka and will issue demand notice for the road tax due from them.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 09:53   #11
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Default Re: Help me with the Bangalore RTO!

Quote:
Originally Posted by singhangad View Post
I own a DL registered 2002 Palio EL. I moved from Delhi to Bangalore almost an year back. I have been planning to buy a new car and scrap my car or send it back to Delhi once I do. To my dismay, the Bangalore RTO officials stopped me seeing my DL registration a couple of months back. I had no toll tax bills or the like, so my license and RC was seized and I was told to pay lifetime karnataka road tax to get them back (along with a 1% fine per month of violation ~ 10 months).

Once I went to the Koramangala RTO after couple of days, with the chargesheet, I was asked for my car's invoice by the officials. Now the whole problem was that I did not have the invoice of my 10 year old car. It's my grandfather's car and he had lost the invoice. They said can't do anything about it and that I should go through an agent. I found a local agent near the office, and he said he needs 1k to get an invoice of a 2002 registered Palio EL from a Fiat dealer. 2 weeks past by and he could not do anything. After that I went for a month long vacation to Delhi.

Once I came back, I contacted the agent again. He told me to pay him 25k and he'll get the entire thing done this time (using some other means). I refused, but he insisted that it was needed to pay some officials inside to get an old invoice out of the files. I paid 15k and he agreed to get the job done.

It's been 2 weeks again and everytime I call that guy he just delays it by a couple more days. So, in total I have paid 16k to this guy and am driving without a license/RC in Bangalore since 2 months!

The reason I'm posting this to Team-BHP is to seek help in this matter. The agent is asking me if I can get an invoice of any 2002/2003 registered Palio EL, he will get the tax paid and the job will be done (and i'll just have to pay the balance after the already paid 15k to him).

Does anyone on this forum own a 2002/2003 registered Palio (in Delhi), or know anyone who does and can provide me with a copy of their invoice? Help will be much appreciated!

Hi Angad,

Before answering your problem, i must add, the RTO will hold your licence only if your car has been found driven around with an expired document.

I own a 2001 Palio 1.6 GTX and it is a Migrated car from KERALA, I had to pay Karnataka LTT of Rs. 27,000/- which is the general norm. I too did not have the Invoice, but later my known agent arranged for the same and got the papers rectified.

You should not have paid the agent any money, he's just riding on you. Try and get whatever money back from him. I shall pm you few of my RTO contacts, do get in touch with them, they will do the needful.

NOTE : Since you are a newbie, and you cant receive PM's , here is the contact - Vimal - 9900112522, you can refer my name

Last edited by PAVAN KADAM : 2nd July 2013 at 09:54.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 10:42   #12
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Default Re: Help me with the Bangalore RTO!

Quote:
Originally Posted by singhangad View Post
I own a DL registered 2002 Palio EL. I moved from Delhi to Bangalore almost an year back.
The problem starts here. What made you not re register your car here when it is a known fact that one day this is bound to happen. Many people assume that they can get away by paying fines/bribe a couple of times and life moves on. In my opinion this is the root cause of all problems. When you know you are relocating for a long period just do what is right and needed.

Also I am not sure on the status of the documents of your car, if it was in order no one could take any papers form you. Just my 2 cents...

To add to this, my brother bought a XETA 7 years back in Delhi and came back to Bangalore 2 years back. I kept chasing him to re register and finally he did it last year after paying the official charges (almost 40k). No headache now and no running away and playing hoodwinks from cops just because the car is a non KA registered...

Last edited by sumathindra : 2nd July 2013 at 10:44. Reason: edits
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Old 2nd July 2013, 10:49   #13
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Default Re: Help me with the Bangalore RTO!

Quote:
Originally Posted by singhangad View Post
Well this is where the system is all wrong. There's no rule for what is an "acceptable" invoice. The RTO agent is taking me for a ride saying I must produce an invoice of the exact same date of registration as my car.
...
...
Why is there no official law on this. Why is the procedure left to be so subjective.
The only wrong part is we are forced to pay heavy lifetime road tax in a state with bad roads. For the rest, you were misled by an unscrupulous agent. Why didn't you check with the forum before handing out so much money to the agent?

The policy is very clear. You need to provide same year or later invoice, or price certificate from the dealer, for the same make/variant car. You got your info from wrong sources.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 14:39   #14
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Default Re: Help required : Need the invoice of Fiat Palio

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Before answering your problem, i must add, the RTO will hold your licence only if your car has been found driven around with an expired document.
They held my license and RC because I was driving without paying road tax. No other reason. All other documents were intact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
You should not have paid the agent any money, he's just riding on you. Try and get whatever money back from him. I shall pm you few of my RTO contacts, do get in touch with them, they will do the needful.

NOTE : Since you are a newbie, and you cant receive PM's , here is the contact - Vimal - 9900112522, you can refer my name
Thanks for the contact I will contact him once if this guy really doesn't budge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumathindra View Post
The problem starts here. What made you not re register your car here when it is a known fact that one day this is bound to happen. Many people assume that they can get away by paying fines/bribe a couple of times and life moves on. In my opinion this is the root cause of all problems. When you know you are relocating for a long period just do what is right and needed.
Yes my mistake. In my defense, I have a 2002 Palio, the resale value of which is not beyond 30k, so paying 20+k road tax was very hard to digest. I realize now that I shouldn't have brought the car here at all (but did because of free relocation provided by my company!). Anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
The only wrong part is we are forced to pay heavy lifetime road tax in a state with bad roads. For the rest, you were misled by an unscrupulous agent. Why didn't you check with the forum before handing out so much money to the agent?
Yes, my mistake. I'm usually used to agent's in Delhi doing their job diligently and swiftly in many cases which have happened there. Did not expect a problem like this. Still adjusting to bangalore's ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
The policy is very clear. You need to provide same year or later invoice, or price certificate from the dealer, for the same make/variant car. You got your info from wrong sources.
Well, this is the biggest problem. There is no official legal source to confirm this. The karnataka motor vehicle act states no rules regarding this. Can you quote this from a legal source? Why I ask is that the Koramangala RTO officials decline it and simply say - pay as per current price if you don't have an invoice! My car was bought at 2.78 lacs (ex-showroom+VAT), and the current Palio price (till it was discontinued) was atleast 4.75 lacs.
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Old 10th July 2013, 19:04   #15
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It seems my problem is going to come to an end. I got my invoice from the Delhi RTO. Going to pay the tax tomorrow.

But the agent is quoting a higher tax than my calculation.

Important questions:

-Are the years for depreciation calculated based on the date from when the car started driving in Bangalore or the date of payment of tax? Makes a difference for me since it changes the number of years!
-is the tax calculated on ex-showroom+VAT only or total on road price when purchased?
-lastly, the penalty for not having insurance and pollution certificates when the seizure was made, needs to be paid even if I produce the same now? Also can someone confirm if it is 1500?

Thank you!
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