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Old 6th August 2009, 16:08   #1
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Question How to sell an Idea?

Dear Friends,

I along with one of my friends have come up with a great and innovative Idea relating to mobile phones and services. It is completely indigenous and we have not seen or heard of such a thing till now and believe that it does not exist in the market. I cannot disclose it here for obvious reasons.

However, we have not been able to make hundred percent sure that there is no similar Idea out in the market or if a patent has not been filed by anyone. We are very much enthused by this revolutionizing thought and would actually want to negotiate with buyers who have the expertise and resourses to market such an idea.

Id like some help from the experts on following points:

1. How do we make sure if the Idea has not been copyrighted by someone already?
2. How can one safeguard once innovations / ideas / intellectual property so that others cannot copy. If getting it patented is the only way, how do we go about it in India?
3. Does the patent hold good across the world.
4. What are the expenses in filing a patent?
5. How are patents different from Copyright?
6. Does the Patent safeguard the concept itself, or only the means to realize the concept. I mean, what if someone else can produce the same results, but using different path/platform/technology? Is it still protected by patent?
7. Suggest me on what would be the best way to approach cell phone service providers? What precautions must be taken before revealing an Idea?
8. Are online patents legal? I also came across this site Sell patent, sell invention, sell ideas. Invention for sale, patent for sale. who claim to be in business of trading an Idea. Anyone has any experience with them ?
Looking for suggestions / advise.

Thanks
Note : I am a newbie, so there may be time lags in my responses.
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Old 6th August 2009, 19:07   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodie09 View Post
Dear Friends,

I along with one of my friends have come up with a great and innovative Idea relating to mobile phones and services. It is completely indigenous and we have not seen or heard of such a thing till now and believe that it does not exist in the market. I cannot disclose it here for obvious reasons.
First of all accept my congratulations on coming out with what you think as a great and innovative idea for mobile phones and servcies. it is a very potent market today in india and any innovation that would help in delivering better consumer experience and make money would be of great importance for the ecosystem

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However, we have not been able to make hundred percent sure that there is no similar Idea out in the market or if a patent has not been filed by anyone. We are very much enthused by this revolutionizing thought and would actually want to negotiate with buyers who have the expertise and resourses to market such an idea.
my suggetion is to first evaluate the market value of the idea and not being greedy and adapt step by step approach to wards commercialization.


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Originally Posted by Rodie09 View Post
Id like some help from the experts on following points:
even though i am not a patent attorney, i will try and share what i know hope it will help you.

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Originally Posted by Rodie09 View Post
1. How do we make sure if the Idea has not been copyrighted by someone already?
generally there is a process called patent search. visit patent registration sites of different countries US/UK, European countries, Japan, India, China, Singapore etc and do the search for whether any such patent exists, you can do this by the key word searches. if you do not have time, energy etc to do this take help from independent patent attorneys. this is an expensive process.

alternative method is to use your employer, ofcourse if eventually it is found to be patentable it would be property of your employer and you would be co-onventor(s)

Once ID is found patentable, then attorneys will draft the patent application and submit it to patent office in the country (s) where you want to register, then the status would be patent pending with a number

the patent office will once again research for similar patents, originality etc, if found original, then it will grant the patent.

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2. How can one safeguard once innovations / ideas / intellectual property so that others cannot copy. If getting it patented is the only way, how do we go about it in India?
if idea is found to be patentable then you can apply for the patent. prior to it there is a step called Invention Disclosure (ID), in which the inventors put down all the details of their idea/innovation/invention including the methods, tools, outcomes, processes, benefits etc. and get it reviewed by the patent attorneys. Your employer can also organize for it. good innvoative companies will have ID review committees where senior experts review the IDs and decide whether it si patentable.

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3. Does the patent hold good across the world.
If you want your patent to hold good across the world, you have to register it in all countries. but generally people register it in major countries and try to enforce in other markets. some governments recognize the patents registered in other countries, whether as some countries does not. e.g. CHina recognize patents filed / registered in china only.

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4. What are the expenses in filing a patent?
i would say quite a much, it involves patent search fees, attorney fees, documentation charges, patent fileing charges etc. More money is need for enforcing the patent than fileing it.

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Originally Posted by Rodie09 View Post
5. How are patents different from Copyright?
Generally the term "copyright" is used brand names, company name, tag lines, software, codes, algorithams etc.

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Originally Posted by Rodie09 View Post
6. Does the Patent safeguard the concept itself, or only the means to realize the concept. I mean, what if someone else can produce the same results, but using different path / platform / technology? Is it still protected by patent?
the Invention Disclosure would decide the safeguards. if you write the ID carefully then you can safeguard it in a better way. else only that specifc methodology or process is valid and not the outcome/result/benefits.

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7. Suggest me on what would be the best way to approach cell phone service providers? What precautions must be taken before revealing an Idea?
IDEA on its own is of now use to service providers. Benefits to them and their customers are important. you should be in a position to demonstrate the same on the ground. some sort of demonstrators would help in showcasing the idea and its benefits.. I would suggest you to approach them directly.

generally a Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA) is required to be signed before disclosing the details, but generally it depends on one' negotiation ability. service providers do not sign NDA before understanding what is in it for them. so it is important that you disclose some basic details to them to generate interest along with demo.

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8. Are online patents legal? I also came across this site Sell patent, sell invention, sell ideas. Invention for sale, patent for sale. who claim to be in business of trading an Idea. Anyone has any experience with them ? Looking for suggestions / advise.
i am not sure, On internet, any one can claim anything, i do not know the enforeability of the same. better is to consult an patent attorney or lawer.

hope this is of help to you. have fun

Last edited by StarVegabond : 6th August 2009 at 19:13.
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Old 6th August 2009, 19:11   #3
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Hi,

For these kind of questions, I would always advise you to go for professional assistance from intellectual property lawyers, since inexperienced steps in these matters may lead to heavy monetary losses at later stages.

I work in a law firm in Bangalore which has a specialised IP wing. Do PM me if you wish to take it further with us. Or better still, email me at arindam13@gmail.com. We can take it forward if you so wish.

Best,
Arindam.
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Old 6th August 2009, 19:19   #4
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Quote:
1. How do we make sure if the Idea has not been copyrighted by someone already?
You can't get copyright on an idea However, if you make something using that idea, the resulting system (or product whatever) can be patented or copyrighted.

U.S. Copyright Office - What Does Copyright Protect? (FAQ)

Last edited by sbasak : 6th August 2009 at 19:33.
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Old 6th August 2009, 19:31   #5
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http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...t-process.html (Help with Patent Process)
some related info here
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Old 6th August 2009, 20:46   #6
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1. How do we make sure if the Idea has not been copyrighted by someone already?

You cant. There's no registration thing for copyright.
You can try to search net etc. Other than that nothing.

2. How can one safeguard once innovations / ideas / intellectual property so that others cannot copy. If getting it patented is the only way, how do we go about it in India?

Innov, ideas, IP etc automatically are your copyrights.
You can patent an idea in a country or zone (eg Euro zone) which will be applicable for some 20 years or something, I dont remember.

3. Does the patent hold good across the world.

No. USA patent is not valid in India.

4. What are the expenses in filing a patent?



5. How are patents different from Copyright?

Work done = automatic copyright. All my answers to your mail are my copyright.
If anyone else uses them without my permission, I "can" sue them for copyright infringement or plagiarism.

Patent: You have to file for a patent. There are n number of restrictions on patent filings which vary across countries.

6. Does the Patent safeguard the concept itself, or only the means to realize the concept. I mean, what if someone else can produce the same results, but using different path/platform/technology? Is it still protected by patent?

Patent safeguard the concept afaik.

7. Suggest me on what would be the best way to approach cell phone service providers? What precautions must be taken before revealing an Idea?

Hmm...

8. Are online patents legal? I also came across this site Sell patent, sell invention, sell ideas. Invention for sale, patent for sale. who claim to be in business of trading an Idea. Anyone has any experience with them ?
Looking for suggestions / advise.

What does online patent mean?

Last edited by subscrive : 6th August 2009 at 20:48.
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Old 7th August 2009, 20:26   #7
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Ideas and business models are not patentable.

Even if you get around to obtain a patent, it is not going to be successfully enforced in a court, if it is a mere idea / business model / algorithm.

Patents can be challenged in court when sue for enforcement, and the court will reveiw them.

Copyrights - need not be registered; you simply publish something, and you get a copyright automatically. If you insist, a lawyer / copyriht attorney will get richer by a few thousands of bucks if you get your copyright registered.

Sorry to throw cold water over your enthu, but that is what the law is.
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Old 8th August 2009, 01:17   #8
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If you have a killer app/idea then get working on it. We all get killer ideas but then its turning those ideas into concepts and then a business model thats difficult. Get the first mover advantage , as there maybe people with similar ideas!


All the best!
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Old 8th August 2009, 08:30   #9
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+1 to aZa.

My friend, I find your query interesting. Because you seem to bother much more with protection of the "idea" rather than commercialization. Its always imperative to gain leverage, whether tying up with handset makers like Nokia or with telcos like Airtel.

And that is where people spend 2-3 years of their lives wearing down the soles of their shoes!

All the same, my best wishes in your quest!
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Old 8th August 2009, 09:02   #10
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Smile IDEA is usless if this not make in practicale use

hi
a idea is useless if donot put it to use and make money out it
no idea cannot be patented
also patenting if for multinational companes not for smale or meduim enterproses because if want to cover the world u needed to have patenting done in many countries

i will give my example
u check this website Home - World of INFRA - Tornado Infra Station - The worlds first hand held infra rework station at reasonable price without any degradation in quality.
this machine was designed bye me
and we sold it all over the world this i idea i get when i have living in india 1999
but i knew i could not do mass production in india of this product
so when i shifted to china and hk and i made enough money
i made this product and we sold it all over the world
i never was interested in making a patenting because i was doing production in china and my cost was cheapest i sold this device
at reasable profit and had good results
so
be practicable
regards
narry
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