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Old 20th October 2009, 23:20   #16
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A lot of us have had similar experiences about the way the healthcare industry is going about its ways in India. The thread link given by greenhorn has the details.
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Old 20th October 2009, 23:45   #17
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manipal is Money ---- Pal

i had to take my son 8 year old for saline admn. he has not taken any fluid from morning( rather vomited everything). he was having fever with skin rash. i took him to pediatric casualty. there two trainee doc's were there. one of the doc started for vein. he kept on poking. boy was weeping and pleading like anything. they have put the curtains and not allowed me saying it is hospital procedure. at last after more than 5 min trial and error he got the vein. what they did you know?

instead of putting him on saline( boy was almost dehydrated) they started to draw blood sample for their studies. i was not even asked for permission. it is against ethics.

by the time they finished they lost the vein. then they started trial and error again. i was watching through the gap in curtains. then i told the other doc at least spray some lignocaine to reduce the pain.

this time the other doc tried he got it liitle easliy. so it seems this guy was senior and the other was trainee trying to learn how to do IV on dehydrated boy.

then injected some 200 ml. and started telling me he was serious and admit. i said he inject some more saline we will see.

i told them the boy is known case of atopic dermatitis and had asthamatic attacks and rash earlier too and now also it is same, but the doc was telling me it may be dangue. i said it is almost impossible bec i know my son. still he was adament. they gave some syrup to boy with out mentioning the same in case sheet. when enquired they told me it is Meftal for fever. leter their boss came. to her he told they gave Ibugesic. now i understood why they did not mention it in case sheet. Ibugesic was not supposed to be given to patients with history of brochial asthama. i got angry and confronted the doc. he was insisting it was meftal not ibugesic. i said i want to go. then he said we can't leave you know. it is serious. you have to sign DAMA. i signed DAMA and asked for discharge. i was billed 2300. ( 1100 for tests which were done for their study,600 for saline, emergency room etc, Rs 600 for Misc) i asked break up of Misc as my office wont accept it. they told me we can not give breakup for Misc. after some argument they agreed to write it as cost of medicines ( medicines administered were 7 ml syrup)


Moral of the story

Go to manipal -- they will do all tests required for MD thesis work, if you have any symptoms similar to the area they are doing MD

they give medicines which will aggravate your condition so that you will get admitted.

Once admitted -- they will find how much Insurance cover one has and loot accordingly

Last edited by rkg : 20th October 2009 at 23:49.
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Old 20th October 2009, 23:55   #18
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Hospitals are now the business to be in.
Every Tom, Dick and Harry with crores have become investors overnight.

This is not how the health industry should be. It used to be a noble profession not so long ago.
What happened to us?
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Old 21st October 2009, 00:54   #19
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It's simple, Anna. When a company like Wockhardt or Apollo have invested crores of rupees in the facility, infrastructure, etc, they need to recoup their investment. It's not like they are doing it for charity. Most of the times, they do have some of the best doctors in town and these doctors need to be paid in line with their talent.

From where will they earn this money? From the patient. Who else?

It's become a business. Simple. It's no longer about the medicine, it's about the money.
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Old 21st October 2009, 00:58   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Hospitals are now the business to be in.
Every Tom, Dick and Harry with crores have become investors overnight.

This is not how the health industry should be. It used to be a noble profession not so long ago.
What happened to us?
anybody with Crores to invest can not be a Tom, Dick or Harry.
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Old 21st October 2009, 11:15   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg View Post
Ibugesic was not supposed to be given to patients with history of brochial asthama.
What you have just written send a shiver through my spine. I feel really bad for you to go through this ordeal. I have a 1.5 year old son and I can understand what you must have gone through.

And about Manipal Hospital they were once quite good but the lure of money seems to have got hold of them too..

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It's become a business. Simple. It's no longer about the medicine, it's about the money.
Take the bloody money, atleast treat the patient right.
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Old 21st October 2009, 11:30   #22
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Hey what about satya sai baba hospital and Narayan heart hostpitals , I have heard they are good . Satya sai baba hospital they say is free for poor is it ?
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Old 21st October 2009, 14:32   #23
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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
It's simple, Anna. When a company like Wockhardt or Apollo have invested crores of rupees in the facility, infrastructure, etc, they need to recoup their investment. It's not like they are doing it for charity. Most of the times, they do have some of the best doctors in town and these doctors need to be paid in line with their talent.

From where will they earn this money? From the patient. Who else?

It's become a business. Simple. It's no longer about the medicine, it's about the money.
Thanks for those points.

Obviously we are not expecting them to do charity especially after investing so much on their infrastructure and facilities. Understood they also have heavily invested in those latest high end machines/equipments, which will throw away the smallest of details at one press. Hope everyone knows where to go for charity & what they can expect out of it.

Concern is most of them "LOOT" in the name of treatment. Writing out for unnecessary tests/dragging the discharge for one or other reason/Milking out more money by lodging in ICU though its not absolutely required/ working on commission basis to generate revenue to other business houses e.g: Heard that scan center will struck a deal with Hospitals for recommending patients to their centers & commission slabs are interesting as the numbers of patients go high
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Old 21st October 2009, 14:37   #24
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IIRC, Vydehi Hospital in Whitefield (Bangalore) offers free treatment, and is aimed at charity. Not sure as to what is the extent of treatment they offer.
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Old 21st October 2009, 14:49   #25
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Quote:
Concern is most of them "LOOT" in the name of treatment. Writing out for unnecessary tests/dragging the discharge for one or other reason/Milking out more money by lodging in ICU though its not absolutely required/ working on commission basis to generate revenue to other business houses e.g: Heard that scan center will struck a deal with Hospitals for recommending patients to their centers & commission slabs are interesting as the numbers of patients go high
See, if they dont get those tests done and charge you, how will they make money? There are simply not enough people who go to these hospitals in the first place for them to be totally ethical.

While I know that it is not fair of them to loot people, they have no choice if they want to continue to keep the hospital running.

See, there is a very clear answer. If you think you are going to get looted and dont like it, then dont go to the hospital! Go to a cheaper hospital. But you'll always get what you paid for. Nothing more.

For many people(of course, people who can afford it), they dont mind getting looted and getting tests done which may not help. For them, all that matters is that the patient gets better. FAST.

Let me give you my own experience. Unfortunately, I cannot name the hospital, so please dont ask me.

My grandpa fell sick last september. Very very sick. He became very weak and was admitted to the "hospital". They kept him on IV as he couldnt eat. but he continued his decline. Soon, he was hallucinating. He was barely awake.

The "doctors" at this hospital said that it was due to old age and there was nothing more they could do. They asked us to call our relatives. My grandpa was 84(he turned 84 in the hospital).

Frankly, some of us werent happy with the care he was getting in that hospital but since it was owned by a relative and that relative himself was one of the docs involved with my grandpa's "treatment", we couldnt say anything.

Anyway, one of my grandpa's oldest friends came to the hospital and then talked very sternly and said we should ditch all the sentimentality and emotional bullcrap and shift him to a better hospital. In this hospital, supposedly, they were monitoring his BP, sugar, sodium, etc everyday. But everything seemed to be normal.

Anyway, we shifted my grandpa in an ambulance to Apollo Hospital(the new one on Bannerghata Road). They immediately admitted him to the ICU, carried out tests and a few hours later concluded that his sodium level was dangerously low! But how come? Werent the doctors in the other hospital monitoring it? They were monitoring it everyday(at least that's what we were told). It was fine, they said.

In Apollo, they immediately put him on a saline drip and told us to pray. They said that we were very very late but there was some hope.

What happened?

My grandpa celebrated his 85th birthday this year. On Sunday, we took some Butter Chicken which he loves to his house so that he could enjoy it. He comes every morning to our house. He used to walk from his house to ours every morning last year. Not anymore though. He doesnt use a walking stick unless he leaves his house. His mind is still sharp as ever and he continues to be an advisor for the Tours and travels company he founded. He's been honoured 3-4 times in the past year for his achievements with the YHAI.

So, we as a family are very grateful to the docs and Apollo. They may be expensive. They may have carried out some useless tests and charged us for it, but no amount of money can replace a human being.
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Old 21st October 2009, 15:23   #26
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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
There are simply not enough people who go to these hospitals in the first place for them to be totally ethical.

While I know that it is not fair of them to loot people, they have no choice if they want to continue to keep the hospital running.
Is running in an unethical way is the only option to run this industry? Iam sure they are not doing this for survival, but for multiplying their profits. Everyone runs business to make profit, but it would be really good if it was done in a good way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
If you think you are going to get looted and dont like it, then dont go to the hospital! Go to a cheaper hospital. But you'll always get what you paid for. Nothing more.

For many people(of course, people who can afford it), they dont mind getting looted and getting tests done which may not help. For them, all that matters is that the patient gets better. FAST.
You don't know until you are looted .

Practically there are lots of difficulties as one could not evaluate options with a person suffering in pain or in death bed. You have the only option of taking it to a nearby hospital or shift it to a hospital where some doctor refers. It is not about costly hospital or cheaper hospital, but trying to milk out more money creating fear factor.

As you mentioned rightly, a person who can afford does not really bother about the looting, but a person who is stretching out to his maximum in a desperate life saving attempt gets additionally burdened due to such tactics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
but no amount of money can replace a human being.
Hats off to your grandpa for being so energetic at this age. No amount of money can replace a human being & that is the reason even middle class/poor people stretch way beyond their limits to save their loved ones.

Last edited by Surprise : 21st October 2009 at 15:24.
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Old 21st October 2009, 16:18   #27
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Folks,
I am connected with the healthcare industry as we supply equipments to hospitals.
In today's scenario a Doctor spends close to 30 Lacs for his UG course(if not thru merit alone) and close to 1.2 crores for a PG seat(non merit category).
They look at getting back their investment. They finish PG after 7.5 years study.

You go to a doctor ,he refers you to a diagnostic centre/or in house where referral fees are paid .If in -house every dept has to generate volume for diagnostics.
Majority transactions are cash ONLY.
Govt provides customs duty exemption/reduction- max duty 9.2% as life saving eqpts and all hospitals including corporate hospitals have an obligation to provide subsidised/free healthcare for the poor which seldom happens.
Being a public forum i don't want to write more about a rotten/man-eating system,which survives because of gullible patients who revere doctors as gods gift to mankind(no offence meant to any doctor here),there could be a few exceptions..
Given a chance i would shift to another vertical and after spending close to 17 years in this industry i am disgusted with these gentlemen....
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Old 21st October 2009, 16:30   #28
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
the worst is that if you are a Senior Citizen over 65 years of age there is NO INSURANCE company in India which will give you a policy - they simply decline to insure you.
Very useful info. I must ask my dad - who is 60 now - to get a medical insurance for him as well as for mom soon.

But, I would disagree that the Indian medical system is going the US way, at least it won't be like that in the near future. There are places where you get good treatment at affordable places, but you should know where to go for what. Most of us IT crowd tend to go to super specialty hospitals only and we will develop this feeling much earlier than the general public. Many IT folks even have a feeling that they are a different breed altogether.. don't they?

So many people from abroad are coming to India nowadays for health treatment cum. tourism purposes - It's named 'health-tourism'.

Last edited by clevermax : 21st October 2009 at 16:32.
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Old 21st October 2009, 16:39   #29
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IIRC, Vydehi Hospital in Whitefield (Bangalore) offers free treatment, and is aimed at charity. Not sure as to what is the extent of treatment they offer.
On lines of a story similar to this, about 15 days ago, one of my staff took his wife to Vydehi Hospital, seeking cure / treatment for a terminal disease.

They were offered a "package deal" of Rs 1.5 Lakhs only.
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Old 21st October 2009, 16:50   #30
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1.5 Lakhs for normal delivery ? For about a week's stay ? You could have a Europe trip (ya, package deal) with that kind of money.

At the end of the day, to a large extent, we ourselves are to be blamed for all this. There would be countless good places in the city where there would be genuine good doctors and reasonable fees (without a brand tag), but either we dont bother to find out or just dont trust anything non-branded.

India is still far away from the US systems thanks to the good ol' 'family doc' most of us have (or should have)..
One who would check you, knows your history to a certain extent, suggest medications and also provide medicines for like 50 bucks a day.

The catch here is to know this pr ocess & find a good 'family doc'.
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