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Old 31st October 2009, 16:24   #16
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1) The moment you sign an agreement, you are in a fix. I was offered jobs at many places and the pay was reasonably good for a small city like Vadodara. But I refused to sign in agreement. Fact is, most of the companies want an agreement because they can pay you less and do what they want to do. During training if one performs well, then as soon as training is over, pay rise is quite less and work pressure is killing.

The most difficult problem comes from this fact : People want you to take Responsibility, but they dont give you authority, which is slavery.

I know all this because recently I have completed college and many of my friends have signed in bond. None on them are giving good reviews.

2) Currently, rather than going to court, which in any case will eat time and money, wait till boss 1 comes back and discuss the issue outside the office with him.
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Old 31st October 2009, 17:55   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinsid View Post
Hi TBHPians.

One of my friend who is a BE in Electronics joined a small software company one year back. This company specializes in mobile software and employs around 10 people (as I said it is a small company). This company has two founders. Lets call them Boss 1 and Boss 2. Boss 1 is in very good terms with my friend. Boss 2 not so much. Boss 1 is always traveling abroad and Boss 2 is incharge of the office.

From the last few months, Boss 2 and my friend had arguments over many things. Boss 2 would say he does not like the attitude of my friend and my friend is lethargic. If my friend asks what exactly does he need to correct in his behaviour, his boss would not answer.

My friend is in direct contact with clients and they like him to handle their projects. Boss 2 always wants to give the project to interns who work for free.

Yesterday, Boss 2 and my friend had some argument. Here is a re-enactment:

Boss 2: The door is open and you can always leave
Friend: Give me documents as per formalities and I will leave immediately.
Boss 2: Oh so you are eager to leave
Friend: I never said that. You said I can leave so I replied.
Boss 2: Ok then leave.
Friend: Give me relieving letter and I will leave.
Boss 2: I wont give you any letter. Get out
Friend: That is not possible
Boss 2: This is my company I can do whatever I want. When you join other company and if they come here to verify your experience, I will tell you never worked here.
Friend: My dad was a senior Government official for 40 years and even I know the law.
Boss 2: You do whatever you want.
Friend: Fine. I will send a court notice
Boss 2: Ok I will give you a chance. You sign an agreement and we will let you continue.
Friend: What agreement.
Boss 2: We cannot disclose that. You should just sign.
Friend: Not possible. Bye.

And my friend came back home in the afternoon.

Now, the problem is, my friend has signed a contract which says if he leaves before he completes one and a half years in the company, then my friend has to pay Rs.1.5 lacs to the company. Right now, my friend has done one year over there. Arent these kind of contracts illegal? My friends dad says lets file a case in court.

So please advise what are the options.

And sorry for the long mail but I hope you guys understand the situation my friend is in.
Employment bonds/agreements are illegal, if the company can prove in court that there was specific training given to him for his employment, and it stands valid that this training was indeed beneficial to him outside the company (say MBA or a higher level of M tech or something on a global platform where it helps the candidate)
Only in that case will your friend need to pay them back.

Else employment bonds are all nonsense as the Supreme Court has ruled in its judgements that no one can be compelled to work for some one/company.

IF he has not been given an appointment letter/confirmation letter/offer letter, and has proof of receiving a salary/payment from the company even in the case of no appointment letter the labour court will hold the employment valid.

The employer cannot terminate any one without following the legal procedure. I know & have observed people who have signed a bond and have left an organisation. No one has time and energy to go to court, additionally I am not in the know of how Karnataka works, but can any one let us know whether agreements have to be registered or no ?

Additionally if your friend says I was unemployed for the duration he worked in this co........... the hiring co cannot verify from this very Boss1/Boss2 company.
Cheers
Don't worry, this is an illegal termination.

Last edited by mmmjgm : 31st October 2009 at 18:03.
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Old 31st October 2009, 19:19   #18
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An agreement is an agreement, which means it is an agreement, right?

Wroing.

Courts will not enforce an agreement which is wrong, even if it is done the right way. Signing on stamp paper ("bond paper" is not the exact word) does not help.

Having two or twenty witnessess will not help.

Having one thousand gurantoors will not help.

An unfair agreement will not be enforced.

An illegal agreement will not be enforcible.

An inaccurate, or ambiguous agreement cannot be enforced, even if you want to.
I suggest that your friend starts to document his experiences with the boss.

But, the problem here is the arbitration agreement.

And more importantly, prospective employers do not like candidates who have entangled themselves in litigation with former employers.

Ask your friend to be diplomatic, and if he ultimately decides to go, publish the name of the employer here; but do not do it right now.



Quote:
Else employment bonds are all nonsense as the Supreme Court has ruled in its judgements that no one can be compelled to work for some one/company.
The same Supreme Court has held that the venerable Tata Accountancy Services can hold its freshers to ransom errr...... enforce bonds like this against ex-employees. The amounts were in mere 5 figures thoguh, not six figures, like this one.
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Old 31st October 2009, 20:08   #19
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Why doesn't he write a mail to BOSS 1 who he is good to him ? .Tell BOSS 1 that with a manager/boss like BOSS 2 the company is going no where .

Last edited by black12rr : 31st October 2009 at 20:09.
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Old 31st October 2009, 20:09   #20
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Did some googling and found this : A brief note on breach of service agreements

From what I infer, the compensation will be limited to "reasonable damage" sustained by the employer and not really 1.5L - and it has to proved that the employer did sustain damage by the employee leaving.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 15:54   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinsid View Post
@MuraliR, They have given an appointment letter. It says "Trainee" for one and a half years. He has received regular monthly salary with payslip. On the payslip it is mentioned Trainee.
Cant this document (salary slip) act as something which proves that he was working for so called company?
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Old 2nd November 2009, 21:55   #22
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@ ashwinsid:
This very much sounds like a company that I worked for in Bangalore some years back. Though I knew 2 Bosses like you mention...
I think it is best to approach the labour dept. If you have someone there, even better.
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Old 3rd November 2009, 08:54   #23
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With all respects I think for a fresher your friend was being a little arrogant in his interaction. He needs to cool off since if he is little hot headed as he seems to be, he will find things going tough where ever he lands. The Boss2 might be bad but it doesn't justify a verbal argument by a newbie unless it was explicit harassment which I don't think is the case.

Best thing is ask him to take a few days leave and report back to work and complete the term until he can find a good alternative and leave as soon as he can talk things over with Boss1.

Last edited by zaks : 3rd November 2009 at 08:55.
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Old 3rd November 2009, 09:38   #24
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Hi,

From my experience i would suggest dear friend to NOT get into legal issues. I have seen employees breaking such agreements and face unnecessary tensions. In india, most of the times, employees do win such legal fights, but its not good.

My humble advice would be to wait for boss 2 to return, have a small meeting with all 3. ASK your friend to be bit more humble; or atleast ask him to ACT like one, just for his own sake, unless he is top brain.

To your friend: Go to companies just to work, learn and earn. Forget everything else. Until and unless you own a SHARE in that company.
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Old 3rd November 2009, 10:46   #25
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Hi,

Bonded labour is illegal in India. A person has a right to a job and he can leave it at any point he does not like working there. No company can stop him from leaving or enforce any sort of bond and payment (Even after it has been signed).

Companies abuse freshers and inexperienced people because they are reluctant to go to the court.
You friend has to decide for himself if he wants to stay or leave. If he is going to stay there then no point fighting and making his life more miserable. Ask him to amicably come to some settlement.

If he decides to leave then he has to verbally ask the Boss 2 to give him his experience certificate and relieving letter.

If Boss 2 does not oblige first threaten him with a lawyer notice. This should do the trick in 90% of the cases as companies know that the bond they are trying to enforce is illegal.

If Boss 2 still does not oblige then get a friend/ relative who is a layer and send him a notice this will work in 99% of the cases.

If Boss2 is a really very stubborn then your friend might have to move to court. But even then it should not be a problem. If your friend has worked there and he explains the situation to his new employers and shows all the payslips for the 1.5 years the new employers will acknowledge that he has worked after all payslip too is a proof of work.


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Old 3rd November 2009, 14:44   #26
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The last thing your friend needs, early in his career, is to sue his boss. Believe me, it will affect his future employability.

Best option : Boss no.1 seems more reasonable. Approach him, have him intervene and sort the matter out. Even if the end solution is not 100% to the satisfaction of your friend, just the fact that Boss no.1 is the arbitrator should make things acceptable to your friend. Complete another 6 months and move on

Last edited by GTO : 3rd November 2009 at 15:26. Reason: Adding point
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Old 3rd November 2009, 15:03   #27
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I'd tend to agree with GTO. Working out an amicable solution for now and leaving the company after 6 months after the bond expires is the best option.

Reconciling now maybe difficult for your friend , but in his long career run he won't regret it.
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Old 3rd November 2009, 16:05   #28
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Bring the issue to the notice of your Boss 1 and have a joint call and sort out things. It is always better to have a smooth exit, with all the backgound checks in getting employment, i feel its' better.

Also You will have bad managers &colleagues everywhere in your career, there is no way you can be running/changing companies all the time. Learn to face it. Do not always React but Respond.

Evaluate your learnings in the company, the financial losses you will suffer before arriving at any decision.
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Old 3rd November 2009, 16:48   #29
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Signing any type of bond to start your job is stupid. Without reading? even more so.

Ask him to try to talk to Boss1 (with whom apparently he is on good terms) to try for some sort of reconciliation or as others have said, find some good legal advice.
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Old 3rd November 2009, 17:05   #30
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If he is really good at what he is doing, tell him to get a job in a company which pays the previous employers bond agreement amount.

I never had any problem with my previous employer though i changed my job and my current employer paid the bond (1 lacs) + notice period buy out (75k)! This way both can get out of the situation happy
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