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Old 30th January 2013, 00:24   #646
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Default Re: The Weight Loss Thread.

Dear Carbookie.

I appriciate your missionary zeal for Ketonic diet. I can understand you have lost weight following this regimn but weight loss was never disputed.

Let me reiterate what I said , Ketonic diet is a therepy but with certain adverse effects.

I wonder if you have really analysed the links you posted I just looked at top 3 and they confirm my view point.

And link 3 you have provided is very good it is actually from a published scintific paper and it highlights risk of Kidney and Cardiovascular diseases in results tab.

I see no reason why someone should ignore these findings

Quote:
Originally Posted by carbookie View Post

Lets see some actual studies done in medical field for reference.

- New Scientist "Longest scientific study yet backs Atkins diet"
New Scientist is a magzine and not a scientific journal for publishing research papers but any way look at the last paragraph after eulogising ketonic diet.

Although broadly supportive of the Atkins regime, Yancy warns that the diet could pose risks including the higher "bad" cholesterol, bone loss and kidney stones. Because of this, he discourages first-time dieters from using the regime.

This is exactly what I wrote in my post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by carbookie View Post

- Stanford Study - "Atkins Fares Best in Study Of Four Weight-Loss Regimens"
Again Washington post is a secondary source and not a scientific journal but
read the last two paragraphs quoted below they confirm my view.


"For all practical purposes, the programs all worked about the same," said Kelly D. Brownell, director of Yale University's Rudd Center for Food Policy and Obesity and creator of the Lifestyle, Exercise, Attitudes, Relationships and Nutrition (LEARN) program for weight management, one of the diets studied. The extra four pounds lost by the Atkins group are not very meaningful, Brownell said.

Others were more critical.

"This study is seriously flawed, and its conclusions misleading," said Ornish, clinical professor of medicine at the University of California at San Francisco. A careful read of the study shows "no significant difference in weight loss between the Atkins and Ornish or LEARN diets after one year!" he noted in an e-mail. "There was significantly more weight loss on the Atkins diet after one year only when compared with the Zone diet. This directly contradicts their primary conclusion."

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Originally Posted by carbookie View Post

- Journal of the American Medical Association - "Reduction of the resting metabolic rate as a result of dieting, a known factor in the failure of dieting, was the least in the very low carbohydrate diet."
Now this is actually a paper but have you actually read the results and analyzed what they mean ?
These results totally contradict what you have been saying

Look at this paragraph in the results tab , This actually highlights the danger of very low carbohydrate diet

"Although the very low-carbohydrate diet produced the greatest improvements in most metabolic syndrome components examined herein, we identified 2 potentially deleterious effects of this diet. Twenty-four hour urinary cortisol excretion, a hormonal measure of stress, was highest with the very low-carbohydrate diet. Consistent with this finding, Stimson et al31 reported increased whole-body regeneration of cortisol by 11β-HSD1 and reduced inactivation of cortisol by 5α- and 5β-reductases over 4 weeks on a very low- vs moderate-carbohydrate diet. Higher cortisol levels may promote adiposity, insulin resistance, and cardiovascular disease, as observed in epidemiological studies.32- 34 In a 6-year prospective, population-based study of older adults in Italy,35"

With this finding over six years untill someone is morbidly obse I don't see why he/she should risk kidney and cardiovascular disease ?

Also Look at the results under the abstract tab , Reproduced below


Compared with the pre–weight-loss baseline, the decrease in REE was greatest with the low-fat diet (mean [95% CI], –205 [–265 to –144] kcal/d), intermediate with the low–glycemic index diet (–166 [–227 to –106] kcal/d), and least with the very low-carbohydrate diet (−138 [–198 to –77] kcal/d; overall P = .03; P for trend by glycemic load = .009). The decrease in TEE showed a similar pattern (mean [95% CI], −423 [–606 to –239] kcal/d; −297 [–479 to –115] kcal/d; and −97 [–281 to 86] kcal/d, respectively; overall P = .003; P for trend by glycemic load < .001). Hormone levels and metabolic syndrome components also varied during weight maintenance by diet (leptin, P < .001; 24-hour urinary cortisol, P = .005; indexes of peripheral [P = .02] and hepatic [P = .03] insulin sensitivity; high-density lipoprotein [HDL] cholesterol, P < .001; non-HDL cholesterol, P < .001; triglycerides, P < .001; plasminogen activator inhibitor 1, P for trend = .04; and C-reactive protein, P for trend = .05), but no consistent favorable pattern emerged.


Now lets look at the 4th link you have provided

Quote:
Originally Posted by carbookie View Post
Just look at the purpose of this study it looks at the long-term effects on psychological function and not physiological function of
very low carbohydrate diet. Psychological function study is important because low ketonic diet is used as therapy for epilepsy.

In the conclusion this study notes favourable effect on Mood state which is expected as psychological effect.
But look at the first sentence of result section quoted below.

Results By 1 year, the overall mean (SE) weight loss was 13.7 (1.8) kg, with no significant difference between groups (P = .26).

Now are you quoting this paper as supportive evidence in weightless thread or quoting this for psychological benefit of mood state ?


I am not going in to point wise analysis of rest of the links you have posted.
Important point is if you omit these portions the picture look rosy but for holistic view whole picture needs to be considered.

Last edited by amitk26 : 30th January 2013 at 00:52.
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Old 30th January 2013, 00:38   #647
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Dear Carbookie.

I appriciate your missionary zeal for Ketonic diet. I can understand you have lost weight following this regimn but weight loss is never disputed.
...

I wonder if you have really analysed the links you posted I just looked at top 3 and they confirm my view
I am now reminded of the opening scene of iron man 2 movie, where in a senate hearing a selective portion of report is being read out to imply something totally different.

I will refrain from giving personal anecdotal evidence, but would still suggest you or anybody else willing to learn more about low carb to head over to http://reddit.com/r/keto and just Hang around and see of your doubts get answered.

I was a bigger sceptic than you before i converted.
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Old 30th January 2013, 00:50   #648
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Default Re: The Weight Loss Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carbookie View Post
I am now reminded of the opening scene of iron man 2 movie, where in a senate hearing a selective portion of report is being read out to imply something totally different.

I will refrain from giving personal anecdotal evidence, but would still suggest you or anybody else willing to learn more about low carb to head over to http://reddit.com/r/keto and just Hang around and see of your doubts get answered.

I was a bigger sceptic than you before i converted.
Well use of word converted shows missionary zeal.

I am afraid that these selective portions quoted from top 4 links cited by you as evidence are actually quite important.

In fact when psychologists advice ketonic diet it is under strict monitoring and often with drug support to suppress the side effects.

I lost 10 Kg with exercise and balanced diet in last 6 months and still 4 Kg above stated ideal weight

Thanks for invitation to convert but I prefer to loose extra flab slowly or being 4/5 Kg overweight then to risk my kidneys.
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Old 30th January 2013, 01:05   #649
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post

Well use of word converted shows missionary zeal.
.....
then to risk my kidneys.
hyperbole and speculative. Cannot accept without proof. Also never be afraid to learn more, even though you think you know.
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Old 30th January 2013, 01:13   #650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbookie View Post
hyperbole and speculative. Cannot accept without proof. Also never be afraid to learn more, even though you think you know.
True so please search what is cortisol hormone and its effects and if Ketonic diet increases cortisol level as established by study over 6 years in the paper you cited in link 3 what is it's effect.

Inappropriately high level of cortisol for prolonged period causes Cushing's syndrome and here is a wiki link for cushing's syndrome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushing%27s_syndrome
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Old 30th January 2013, 01:31   #651
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post

True so please search what is cortisol hormone and its effects and if Ketonic diet increases cortisol level as established by study over 6 years in the paper you cited in link 3 what is it's effect.

Inappropriately high level of cortisol for prolonged period causes Cushing's syndrome and here is a wiki link for cushing's syndrome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushing%27s_syndrome
The cortisol level vs low carb discussions have been done multiple times on forum I mentioned earlier. I am on mobile otherwise I would have listed you a few studies also from my bookmarks. Anyways I will leave this here from paleo forum. The discussion is again about the issue you brought up that carries very shaky science. http://paleohacks.com/questions/2544...#axzz2JOamaOkE

Anyone else has doubts on low carb then I will definitely answer otherwise I won't sidetrack the thread anymore.
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Old 30th January 2013, 08:07   #652
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Default Re: The Weight Loss Thread.

What would make you lose weight faster?
1. Only Cardio.
2. Alternate cardio and Weight training.

Why I am asking is because my current schedule at the gym constitutes of cardio on monday/wed/friday and weights on the other three days. Now I was always of the impression that Cardio will make you lose weight faster. Right now I am interested in precisely that. So need the fastest way to achieve that short term goal. Ofcourse once I get into little better shape then I can start weights too which I am guessing will increase your BMR and ensure that you are overall fit. So what should I do?
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Old 30th January 2013, 10:11   #653
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Default Re: The Weight Loss Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
What would make you lose weight faster?
1. Only Cardio.
2. Alternate cardio and Weight training.

Why I am asking is because my current schedule at the gym constitutes of cardio on monday/wed/friday and weights on the other three days. Now I was always of the impression that Cardio will make you lose weight faster. Right now I am interested in precisely that. So need the fastest way to achieve that short term goal. Ofcourse once I get into little better shape then I can start weights too which I am guessing will increase your BMR and ensure that you are overall fit. So what should I do?
IMHO, alternate cardio and weight traning would be the better approach. Weight training increases your muscle mass, which in turn increases the BMR. Also keep your diet in check. Increase protein intake but not carbs.

Also, if you do only cardio on a daily basis, the body gets used to it and stops responding after a while. The weight loss reaches a plateau unless you keep increasing the duration and/or intensity or workouts.

Rohan

Last edited by rohan_iitr : 30th January 2013 at 10:13.
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Old 30th January 2013, 10:53   #654
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Default Re: The Weight Loss Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
What would make you lose weight faster?
1. Only Cardio.
2. Alternate cardio and Weight training.

Why I am asking is because my current schedule at the gym constitutes of cardio on monday/wed/friday and weights on the other three days. Now I was always of the impression that Cardio will make you lose weight faster. Right now I am interested in precisely that. So need the fastest way to achieve that short term goal. Ofcourse once I get into little better shape then I can start weights too which I am guessing will increase your BMR and ensure that you are overall fit. So what should I do?
Weight training is required to tone muscles and also it increases the bone density. Don't wait to get in shape to start weights instead start with very light weights and keep on increasing as you progress and gain strength.
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Old 30th January 2013, 11:03   #655
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Default Re: The Weight Loss Thread.

Thanks for the replies. Will start as per the schedule in that case.
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Old 20th February 2013, 11:31   #656
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Default Re: The Weight Loss Thread.

Hi Guyz, I checked my weight recently and am weighing 76.4 kg now! I would like to come down to 70 kg. What do you suggest? I do not want to join a gym. I am open to running/ jogging and am planning to play badminton consistently. Any pointers are highly appreciated.
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Old 20th February 2013, 12:35   #657
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Originally Posted by MotoNanu View Post
Hi Guyz, I checked my weight recently and am weighing 76.4 kg now! I would like to come down to 70 kg. What do you suggest? I do not want to join a gym. I am open to running/ jogging and am planning to play badminton consistently. Any pointers are highly appreciated.
I'm no expert, but this is what I can advise.

If it's been a while since you did any jogging/running, start off with this plan: http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_3/181.shtml

You can also vary it a bit by including some rope skipping, hill climbing in your routine. For strength, do exercises which depend on your body-weight like push-ups, pull-ups, free squats, lunges, double bar dips.

Diet wise, reduce sugar intake or cut it out entirely if possible.

Please take it easy at first if it's been a long time since you did any sort of physical activity. Good luck!

Cheers,
Vikram
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Old 20th February 2013, 12:40   #658
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Default Re: The Weight Loss Thread.

This is my first post in this thread. I thought I will share my experience with weight loss which might be beneficial to some.

Let me give some background -
I was very fat in college, 82 kgs for 5'5"...its not fat its obese.
After joining a job in Mumbai I started going to gym. I lost all the excess weight and was also able to build some muscle mass and had a good physique at 64kgs.
This was in 2001-2002.
In 2004, I had a near fatal bike accident. After that, all the focus was on recovering and exercise stopped. I recovered well but slowly started to gain the weight back. Meanwhile, I got married and became father of a beautiful daughter.
Last year, I was again back to 82 :( I was so very disappointed.
Then, I took up the mission of cutting the flab again. But this time, I decided not to take any drastic steps and I wanted something which is sustainable in the long run.
This is what I followed -
1> Exercise for at least 4 days a week. There were quite a few weeks where I could not do this. I think, on average, I might have done 3 days a week.
2> Mainly cardio for around 30-35 mins.
3> Weight training once a week with light weights..Major exercises only like bench press, pull-ups and squats along with some abdominal exercises.
4> No major change in diet. Only cut down on deep fried stuff. Limit drinks to 1 or 2 days a week. Not too many sweets. No other change.
5> After losing some weight, I was alternating between HIIT and normal cardio. Also, increased the ratio of weight training a bit.
6> For some weeks, I did not exercise at all but I kept myself active by playing sports like badmintion, tennis etc.

As of yesterday, my weight was 69 I want to lose 3-4 kgs more but I am almost there.

So, I have lost 13 kgs without even dieting much. And the good thing is - I don't seem to gain any weight even I eat more sometimes in parties, marriages etc. So, looks like my metabolism has increased.

So, all in all, I would summarize by saying -
1> Weight loss is easy, just be patient and determined
2> Do not fall prey to gimmicks, some magic diet etc etc. While some of these might work for some time, the question to ask yourself is whether it is sustainable in the long run or does it have any adverse effects?
3> Think of it as a change in lifestyle. Change from a sedentary to an active lifestyle.So, there is no end goal.
4> Diet is important. You need to watch your diet for sure but no need to starve or go crazy with a no-carb diet or some other stuff advertised nowadays.
5> Try to get company of some like-minded people. Will keep you motivated.
6> Do not stop yourself from having the pleasure of good food. Eating a little more once in a while is okay. After all, you are working out.
7> Alcohol - For people who drink, nothing to worry as long as you do in moderation. Alcohol does contain useless calories but not much by itself. What you need to watch out are the side dishes you have along with alcohol. Those are the main culprits in my opinion. So, please cut down on those or try some healthier alternatives than chips, haldiram mixtures and stuff

Hope it helps and Best of luck!

~Aadi

Last edited by adimicra : 20th February 2013 at 12:44.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 11:18   #659
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I've always thought of myself as a few kgs overweight at max! Excess fat around the belly was my major concern, and recently I had gained a few extra kilos than my usual weight.

Had been trying to reduce from past one month almost, but my targets were to lose 2-3 kgs that i gained recently - and I have almost succeeded in that. My usual jeans size became really tight a month back, and now - once again I'm comfortable in it.

However, a quick check at the BMI index yesterday showed that i am overweight by atleast 10kgs. I now see that my targets should be a lot more aggressive.

I am around 180cms tall and weigh 90kg when i last checked around a month back (I suspect it should be around 89/88 now!). I plan to reduce it to 80 by next march. This thread has been a big inspiration for me, and I guess - I will document my progress here itself so that I can keep my commitment and if I succeed - others can get inspired from it.

My plan is to try reducing carbs (As mentioned in the last page - Have been working on it from past 1 week), reduce sugar/ maida products, drink more water and strive for a more active lifestyle. Exercise will be a 1 hour walk daily. Trying to take up cycling, but not sure of the timeframe yet.
Quick update. I've touched the 85 mark now, something I've never seen since my early college days. I guess I've successfully shed around 7 kgs over past 3 months.

Exercise is done mostly at home. I walk for 2 hours on free days, take stairs instead of lift, concentrate on fruits/vegetable diet. Have reduced my rice/wheat intake by a big margin- without starving.

The best part? I've never felt better. Energy levels have gone really high, tiredness has stop haunting my evenings, i feel a lot more confident about myself, waking up in the morning is a fresh affair, better work- life balance etc. I'm loving it!

Plan to reduce it to around 80 as per the BMI scale.
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Old 14th March 2013, 23:45   #660
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Default Re: The Weight Loss Thread.

Hi guys i am back to this thread after quiet a long time. I started with my weight loss goal and things happened fine. I could lose out 13 Kgs. I was very happy when i came down to 108 from 121 kgs. I had stopped everything for about four months due to extensive travelling and other works.Now i kick started things and continued the same exercise routines. I just did some basic aerobics/strech exercise and brisk walk for 1 hr a day to lose the weight earlier.

But now the issue is that i am not able to lose weight. I have been doing this for the past two monts but there seems to be no reponse at all. I think i have hit the saturation point. My BMI says that i am obese. I should be somewhere around 75-80 kgs which is apt.

One of my friend suggested me that i will have to start weight training first and then cardio work outs like treadmill/ cycling to lose more weight. If this is true then what exactly weight training means and what is to be done. Please pardon my ignorance. I have no ideas about weight training.

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by rki2007 : 14th March 2013 at 23:47.
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