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Old 29th April 2015, 19:23   #1336
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Default Re: The Weight Loss Thread

I think recommended daily protein intake is roughly .8 gram per kg by medical council or any such similar organisation. But just increasing the intake of protein in the hope that it will build muscle is misplaced. It is defined by genetics. When one takes to bodybuilding what builds muscles is the process that heals microscopic fractures which are result of weight training (but not all protocols will lead to this). And since protein builds muscles an increased intake is recommended (higher protein consumption is also recommended for teenagers and as one grows older).

In case of body building it ranges from 1 gm per pound of body weight (which is roughly twice the normal recommendation) as espoused by Arnold to 2-2.5 gm/LBS the picture is highly confusing. Add to it the aggressive marketing by supplement companies, it is easy to fall into this charade.

What amount should it be for time pass weight lifters like us, I think one should arrive at ones own conclusion. For me it is higher that the daily dietary recommendation of .8 g/kg and less than 1g/LBS. For someone wanting to lose weight may be it could be little higher to compensate for muscle loss. But one thing is certain that if one plans ones diet carefully protein supplement can be easily avoided.

As far as studies are concerned, they recommend 1g/LBS but I can't vouch for their authenticity. One can also take it to mean lean body mass so as to reduce dependence on protein.

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Old 29th April 2015, 19:31   #1337
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Default Re: The Weight Loss Thread

The studies are inconclusive.

WebMD Linky

Quote:
Athletic performance. Some clinical research shows that taking whey protein in combination with strength training increases lean body mass, strength, and muscle size. However, other research suggests no effect of whey protein on strength or muscle mass. Taking whey protein seems to improve recovery from exercise better than carbohydrate supplements in untrained but not trained athletes.
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Old 30th April 2015, 10:13   #1338
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Default Re: The Weight Loss Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
If you haven't done A -> B testing on proteins, then the noticeable muscles gains can be from any cause, not just increased intake of proteins.

What was the measurement of that noticeable gain in muscles?
Did your body weight go up, but body fat (waist size) go down?
Were you also on calorific surplus?
Were you taking hormonal supplements?

(don't answer, just question yourself)


But I know you still won't be convinced, because you believe in protein powders, and when it comes to beliefs people are loath to abandon them.

Also since you are convinced that getting proteins with normal food is difficult for a normal vegetarian - any idea how much proteins a typical vegetarian would be swallowing in his normal diet without supplements?
I am looking at whey protein as protein (not sure if you contest that).

When I dont want to consume too many calories and dont want to pick and choose what I eat, whey is easier to consume. I know that I can eat vegetarian food that is rich in protein and takes care of my requirement, I dont want to

South Indian food is rich in carbohydrates (with other stuff also) and I enjoy the food and dont want to cut on that or overindulge in it. I dont want to consume anything else just because it has proteins.

I have been working out since 20 years and I can make out any difference in either what I consume or any changes I do to the exercises. Whey is the only supplement that I have consumed and dont take in anymore after achieving what I wanted and I can start if I want to do it again.

I understand your point of view but hope you understand my point and like your inputs
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Old 30th April 2015, 12:20   #1339
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Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
Even if it is just a placebo effect of consuming whey proteins, if it gives people the confidence to go that extra bit, to get that extra rep in when they are about to give up, then i say it is money well invested!!
You are right, and you gave a perfect romantic argument.
But if you experience placebo it does not mean it will create the same placebo effect on others.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post3687025 (Bodybuilding - Exercises and Supplements)
Proteins have become a religion now with every trainer becoming a preacher.
And we have tons of followers who are the gym goers influenced by their preachers.
No harm in someone being a part of the clan, but bringing someone into the clan without telling the intricacies is misleading.

But I didn't get your point about not having time. You mean most of the average gym goers ultimately end up being Mr India contestants, and they wouldn't want to lose time, and therefore it makes no sense to lose time trying to come up with optimal nutrition strategy?

I thought for most people it is a life time endeavor, trying to find out what works the best.

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Just Curious... aren't there independent controlled studies on the effect on protein on muscle gain? What do they say?
The whole issue boils down to this:
1. Studies are done on people who are plain normal people
2. Bodybuilders are enhanced versions of normal people
3. Studies dispute the efficacy of high proteins
4. Bodybuilders realize that high proteins do give them the edge
5. Studies say that bodybuilders can do with far lower proteins
5. Bodybuilders call researchers idiots doing experiments on rats, not knowing anything about human body.
6. What everyone forget in the ensuing fracas is the word in bold about point no.2
7. Normal people who go to gym listen to trainers, who in turn get their ideas from local bodybuilding champs. Who in turn get their ideas from local star trainers, who in turn get the info from the international trainers and bodybuilders.
8. Again what everyone forgets in the ensuing sermonising and faith conversion is the word in bold about point no.2

For normal people, if you are not increasing pure muscle mass while being on high protein diet, the proteins are only being used as calories after conversion to sugars in the body. Can anyone here explain how else would proteins be used? Storing somewhere?

For enhanced people, since your blood is flowing with stuff that utilizes the proteins in the blood to make muscle tissues, you see the effect of higher than normal protein intake.

A normal person cannot force his body to use proteins to build muscles anymore just by eating more proteins. What he can do is to increase his calorific intake, the side effect of which is increased utilization of proteins to produce muscles. But then you get fat like a sumo wrestler.

Time and again I ask the people when was the time when your body grew the fastest? (And no one really has the answer)
Infancy. (actually embryo, but infancy will do)
When did you require the protein most to build tissues?
Infancy.
What was the intake of proteins per kg during infancy?
___

Ok, you may say that infant doesn't have testosterone in his blood so the numbers will be different.
Fine.

When was the time when your body grew the fastest while being on testosterone?
Early Teenage
What was the intake of proteins per kg during early teenage?
___

In both the cases, proteins is not the important factor, but total overall calories are.
You put and infant or a teenage on high proteins but low calorie diet and see what happens ...

You know what I predict about the future?
Protein supplement companies targeting parents of infants and teenagers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
South Indian food is rich in carbohydrates (with other stuff also) and I enjoy the food and dont want to cut on that or overindulge in it. I dont want to consume anything else just because it has proteins.
Rich carbs in South India - lets say pure boiled rice diet only (and nothing else in the intake), will still provide 50-60 grams of protein per day.

###

I think this discussion is leaning more towards the bodybuilding, exercise, supplements thread.

Last edited by alpha1 : 30th April 2015 at 12:39.
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Old 30th April 2015, 12:42   #1340
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Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Rich carbs in South India - lets say pure boiled rice diet only (and nothing else in the intake), will still provide 60 grams of protein per day.

###

I think this discussion is leaning more towards the bodybuilding, exercise, supplements thread.
For 60 grams of protein from rice, you need to consume 2 kgs of rice and you would get 3000 calories ! If I was working on farm, tilling land using Oxen and other hard labour throughout the day, it would be fine.

The people who worked on our farms in our village just did that and they were indeed muscular. They had dal, grains from sambhar and no meat ! So for me the point is using calories which is not possible.
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Old 30th April 2015, 13:00   #1341
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Default Re: The Weight Loss Thread

Simple ways to reduce weight:
1.) Avoid sugars, bakery items, processed foods, maida, corn flour.
2.) Drink at least 3 liters of water.
3.) Have an early dinner (eat whatever you want) at 7:30-8 pm, assuming one is going to bed at 11. Ensure the body gets at least 8 hours of sleep.
4.) Stick to egg for breakfast.
5.) Stick to a fixed lunch timing, I prefer having lunch at 12-12:30, I know few people have at 2:30-3pm, IMO, it slows down the metabolism.
6.) Keep your bowels clean. Consume isabgol husk once in a week to expel the waste from the body.
7.) Some exercise by climbing the stairs instead of using the lift, clean the floor/bathroom, wash all the utensils.

I was 87 kilos back in 2007-2008, By following the above, I have been able to maintain weight between 68-70 for the past 5 years.

Last edited by Mr_Bean : 30th April 2015 at 13:01. Reason: edit
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Old 30th April 2015, 18:02   #1342
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Default Re: The Weight Loss Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
But I didn't get your point about not having time.
Maybe i used the wrong term. It is actually impossible to do A to B comparison, because the starting point for scenario B will be quite different from the starting point of scenario A. And the human body does not respond linearly to diet change and exercise changes. It is impossible to keep whey protein or any supplement as the ONLY variable between two scenarios. Even week to week your levels of motivation can change and month to month, they will change. The impact of that factor is near impossible to isolate from the impact of any diet change or supplement intake.

Last edited by amitoj : 30th April 2015 at 18:04.
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Old 30th April 2015, 18:41   #1343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
For 60 grams of protein from rice, you need to consume 2 kgs of rice and you would get 3000 calories
An average person requires about 2400 kcal per day.
Cooked rice provides 150 kcal per 100 grams.
This means that the average person will have to consume about 1.6 kg of boiled rice, any less and he will start losing weight.
1.6 kg of rice provides 51 g of protein.

Now an average person does also consume wheat which has more proteins than rice. He also consumes pulses and legumes which are significantly higher in proteins. Occasional milk based items here and there. Yoghurt almost daily definitely.

eg:
Wheat provides about 350 kcal per 100 g (dry, I don't have cooked figures).
He will need to eat about 700 g of wheat (dry) to live.
This will provide him with about 75 grams of proteins

OR
Cooked Rajma provides 140 kcal per 100 g
He will need to eat 1.7 kg per day
This will provide him with 98 g of proteins!

Ofcourse since the average human's diet is a blend of these things, the average protein consumption will lie somewhere in between.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
Maybe i used the wrong term. It is actually impossible to do A to B comparison, because the starting point for scenario B will be quite different from the starting point of scenario A. And the human body does not respond linearly to diet change and exercise changes. It is impossible to keep whey protein or any supplement as the ONLY variable between two scenarios. Even week to week your levels of motivation can change and month to month, they will change. The impact of that factor is near impossible to isolate from the impact of any diet change or supplement intake.
I know what you say.
But all I had asked people in previous pages was to experiment with high proteins for few months. Observe and record the differences. Then cut down proteins to normal food for a few months. Observe and record the differences. Go back to high proteins for a few months observe and record the differences.

I have observed so many folks worrying so much about which program, what angle to use, which movements to use, how to develop that muscle that lifts the little finger that they keep changing stuff every month or some even every week etc - but they are so afraid to do experimentation of the sort that I am suggesting.

Not a difficult thing to do with all the tapes and scales around us. And things get evened out in a large enough time scale. Especially once you are past the initial 1-3 year lifting age.

Last edited by alpha1 : 30th April 2015 at 18:55.
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Old 1st May 2015, 13:25   #1344
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Default Re: The Weight Loss Thread

This guy in the video explains how to loose the lower belly fat safely without putting any pressure on the lower back.

I am not looking at reducing fat on a particular part of the body but I am looking at a good workout for fat loss which can be done along with the regular cardio activities like brisk walking which I am currently doing.

Experts please share your opinion. Alternative suggestions are welcome.


Last edited by rki2007 : 1st May 2015 at 13:27.
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Old 1st May 2015, 18:18   #1345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post

Not a difficult thing to do with all the tapes and scales around us. And things get evened out in a large enough time scale. Especially once you are past the initial 1-3 year lifting age.
Maybe you are right. Problem is I have never been able to keep a good written track of my workouts. I should give this a try. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rki2007 View Post
This guy in the video explains how to loose the lower belly fat safely without putting any pressure on the lower back.
Good set of exercises to end your workout with. Remember though that these exercises target the abdominal muscles and not the fat. We all have those 6 packs on us, except that they are covered with a layer of fat Any workout you do, your body will get to using that fat when it decides to. Not when you start doing ab exercises.
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Old 3rd May 2015, 09:45   #1346
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Default Re: The Weight Loss Thread

Man, its so easy to "accidentally" go over the calorie limit. One snack, just one small snack flips it easily.

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Old 8th May 2015, 07:31   #1347
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Default Re: The Weight Loss Thread

This is for people thinking of paleo diet...

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Old 8th May 2015, 13:05   #1348
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
This is for people thinking of paleo diet...
There is one thing about Paleo Diet, which I have always failed to understand, why people, both its proponents and critics, miss - the CONTEXT.

Paleo Diet during Paleolithic period (or amongst the people still living on the edge) and in contemporary times would have totally a different impact. Simply because for paleolithic people jungle was not their supermarket that they went hunting and came back, shortly afterwards, with whatever they wanted to eat that day. Their life was a constant struggle for survival and at the most they lived barely at the subsistence level.

Compare it to the situation now. You don't have to move anywhere to get anything you want. It is just a phone call that is needed.

Paleo Diet is a misnomer propagated by some guru for some marketing/promotional edge.

Last edited by Piyadassi : 8th May 2015 at 13:08.
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Old 17th June 2015, 23:59   #1349
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Guys, I currently weigh at 79 kgs and am finding it very tough to maintains weight. I am 36 yrs old and 5'9" height. My daily regime is:
1. 2000 to 2500 skips every morning in about 30 mins
2. Ab stretching for around 10 mins
3. Brisk walk at night post lunch for 45 mins

My diet:
1. Toast and omelette (3 eggs) at 9am and one glass of toned milk without sugar
2. Lunch is 2 rotis and vegetable plus curd (homemade)
3. Dinner of 1 roti and gravy plus vegetable (all cooked in olive pomace)
4. I hardly ever eat sweets or add sugar

I personally feel that I have a healthy lifestyle but still manage to gain weight specially on the double chin and the waist areas. My body just loves love handles which start emerging whenever I gain weight.
Where am I going wrong. The diet that I have mentioned above remains the same and hardly ever changes.

Kindly suggest if I need to visit a dietician and take an opinion as I am really worried about this weight gain. Will appreciate some pointers for ensuring that I don't gain specially around the tummy / waist. Thanks.
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Old 18th June 2015, 04:28   #1350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by storme'd View Post
Guys, I currently weigh at 79 kgs and am finding it very tough to maintains weight. I am 36 yrs old and 5'9" height. My daily regime is:
1. 2000 to 2500 skips every morning in about 30 mins
2. Ab stretching for around 10 mins
3. Brisk walk at night post lunch for 45 mins

My diet:
1. Toast and omelette (3 eggs) at 9am and one glass of toned milk without sugar
2. Lunch is 2 rotis and vegetable plus curd (homemade)
3. Dinner of 1 roti and gravy plus vegetable (all cooked in olive pomace)
4. I hardly ever eat sweets or add sugar

I personally feel that I have a healthy lifestyle but still manage to gain weight specially on the double chin and the waist areas. My body just loves love handles which start emerging whenever I gain weight.
Where am I going wrong. The diet that I have mentioned above remains the same and hardly ever changes.

Kindly suggest if I need to visit a dietician and take an opinion as I am really worried about this weight gain. Will appreciate some pointers for ensuring that I don't gain specially around the tummy / waist. Thanks.
Hi, a few basics to help in your case:

How to lose weight
- Don't fix arbitrary diets. Calculate how many calories you are eating vs how many calories your body is burning on a daily basis: http://iifym.com/iifym-calculator/
- For the above, you will need to know your fat percentage. Purchase one. http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...l_6x88qjwu4d_b
- Once you have your numbers from IIFYM calculator, you will know your TDEE (the energy your body is using per day) and how much you should eat. Note, select "zero exercise" when entering numbers into IIFYM. I like to go with "Reckless" or at least "Aggressive".

For example in my case my body is burning 1850 per day and my daily calorie goal is 1420 (deficit of 430).

Once you have those numbers:
- Track your daily intake with myfitnesspal (look it up). In the initial stage, measure everything. "1 cup" may be much smaller (or bigger) than you think it is. One cup is 250ml. Have a measuring cup that has markings on it.

Within your calorie limit, eat anything. Have good solid 2 or 3 meals as you like, or snack throughout the day with very small actual meals. Its up to you. Eat anything, just stay within the limit.

For basic weight loss, the above is all you need. You WILL lose weight, it is physics.

How to "lose fat" instead of "lose weight":
Now, if you care about actually looking good and not just losing weight, read further.

When you lose weight, you lose both fat and muscle. Muscles burn calories even when they are idle. So as you lose weight, your total calorie consumption also keeps going lower, lower, lower so you have to eat less and less as you go. Also, you look bad in the mirror when you lose muscle. So to retain muscle as much as possible as you lose fat, just calorie counting isn't enough. Do these things too:
- Meet your protein goals as per IIFYM (eat lots of meat or drink protein shakes)
- Workout with weights 3 times a week with a good workout program. I used to do stronglifts (look it up): http://stronglifts.com

Don't be frustrated if your strength isn't increasing after a certain point or you are not seeing any new muscles. After some newbie gains, you won't notice any difference. That is expected, since you are in a calorie deficit you won't be putting on muscle. You are retaining muscle.

Keep doing this, the results will be AMAZING in as little as three to four months.

Now, to clarify a few things:
- The lower belly and love handles will be the last place where you lose weight. You will lose all over the body and only at the end the body will start burning here. You can't control this. There is no food or exercise which can target fat burning in one area of the body. If anyone says anything like "This will burn belly fat", run. Don't listen to anything they have to say because they have no clue. That includes many internet articles.

- Don't bother with ab crunches etc. Those are used for building ab muscles, not burning ab fat.

- Don't fix on a particular diet like "this is what I will eat" till you start tracking and get comfortable staying within your numbers. As you eat within your numbers, you will get very creative and your "diet" (I hate to call it that) will evolve. Also, it will vary from day to day.

- Cardio is completely optional. You can eat 100 calories less, or you can run for 100 calories worth. They are both exactly the same.

- Programs like Juicing, Keto diet etc will also work because they do fulfill the basic principles: Calorie Deficit. When keto works, its not because of no-carb or low-carb. Its because of calorie deficit. When juicing works, its not because those juices you are drinking are healthy. Its because your body is in a calorie deficit. Remember that guy who ate at McDonalds and still lost weight? Its just because he put himself in a calorie deficit. You pick, if one of the "programs" is mentally easier for you to follow, do it. Or if you (like me) prefer to do your own thing, that would work too.

- It doesn't matter what time of the day you eat and what you eat, as long as you are within the numbers. I eat my dinner at 9PM and its a lot of rice. Usually I save my calories through the day so that I can eat basically whatever I want at night, and usually have calories left for even a late night snack or two.


A few more tips
Stay completely off alcohol and tobacco. These will mess with everything you are doing. Drink lots of water, as water will help prevent water retention (ironically).

Don't eat excess salt. Salt causes water retention (which adds to weight). Remember 70% of the body is water.

As you workout, initially you will see a huge decrease in weight and it will gradually flatten. Don't lose heart if that happens. The initial loss will be mostly water loss. However, if you stay in a calorie deficit you will continuously lose weight.

A sample day
I am sharing a sample from my daily intake, just to give you an idea of how to track (I am taking a break from workout and protein now, just doing calorie deficit for sometime. I plan to get back on the weights + protein after a few weeks break. Ideally, I should stay within carb & fat limits and hit my protein goal. Protein should go red, others should be green ideally. For now I am doing just calorie deficit and because of that I am still losing weight).

The Weight Loss Thread-screen-shot-20150617-3.41.52-pmresized.png

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