Employability of Indian Technical Graduates

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by Ho0ligaN

I can cite endless examples like this. I always thought, working for a software company would be fun. Getting paid to program, build fun things. What more could one ask for. But it seems I was lost in a parallel universe. I now spend most of my weekdays endlessly dragging my bottom around in my current firm's sprawling 335 acre campus :(

another few months and you will realize that any job is a lot of hard work. nobody will pay you to have fun, or build fun things.

you should read how your founder started the company. not for all the hype on history. but just to compare your work life with his. whether he had a swimming pool, gym, fancy campus etc to pamper himself.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by Ho0ligaN

I always thought, working for a software company would be fun. Getting paid to program, build fun things. What more could one ask for. But it seems I was lost in a parallel universe. I now spend most of my weekdays endlessly dragging my bottom around in my current firm's sprawling 335 acre campus :(

It seems you are working in an IT Services company. To get into the kind of role you are looking for, you need to switch to a startup or a company that needs developers with technical skills.

Originally Posted by Ho0ligaN

I tried sending my resume to a few companies but none even bothered to acknowledge my mails.

Nobody ever looks at these resumes. Don't expect a response till resume matches keywords for any of current openings. I.e. Queries like "5+ workex, ABC Package version x.y.z"

You need to do "target shooting" instead of carpet bombing.

Originally Posted by Ho0ligaN

Have I entered the software industry a little too late in the day? OR are all the jobs being taken away by people who have influence/question papers before hand? why do the companies keep hiring the wrong sort of people and keep complaining about employability?

There are jobs if you are willing to work in companies that require more tech skills.

Originally Posted by Ho0ligaN

Now, the only way to set things right, it seems is to pursue a masters degree. Even though a master's degree will not help me write better programs, I have to spend lakhs of rupees to go abroad and spend 2 more years studying. And whats the guarantee that the same things won't happen again? :(

Masters degree in Comp Sc / IT is not useful. To get into a top tier collage, you would need to spend 5 - 6 months for preparation and 2 years for study.

You can reach at a much better place in terms of knowledge, career, money if you get into a suitable role right away.

If you want to get into technical roles with good pay packages, start building your credentials right away.

Your competitors have graduated from IITs, did 2nd year projects in MS / Google / FogCreek in US/EU.

To match that, start contributing to Open Source projects.

Options are, having your project in Silverlight Showcase / Pushing patches in Drupal / Fix issues in VirtualBox etc etc.

Or start participating in coding competitions.

[coolfyre]

This happened at my previous company a couple of years back.

We were recruiting a few people for our team and I was one of the interviewers. We came across a guy who had done his Diploma and had worked for about a little over 1 years for a small company.
I was not very impressed with his resume, but something in me said that I should talk to him before I reject him. I did not want to spend more than 10-15 mins with this guy. But believe it or not, I spoke to this guy fro over 45 mins and recommended to hire him. He was good. He had his basics right. I asked him how did he manage to get his basics so well which is not taught at any of the colleges. He said he learnt by his own effort and enthusiasm.

But he was not hired inspite of 3 of the interviewers recommending him. The reason was that there was another candidate who had done his B.Tech was not even 10% good as this Diploma guy. My manager rejected the Diploma guy without even talking to him because the manager's reasoning was anyday the B.Tech guy was better.

There are a lot of people who are employable but are being made suffer because of silly reasons such as not having a engineering degree, masters degree, not having a relevant degree etc.

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by coolfyre

There are a lot of people who are employable but are being made suffer because of silly reasons such as not having a engineering degree, masters degree, not having a relevant degree etc.

this is the biggest incentive for our degree hungry crowd. much more prominent in govt jobs. that's why students go to the best colleges and earn best of the degrees, regardless of what they really learn there.

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

Masters degree in Comp Sc / IT is not useful. To get into a top tier collage, you would need to spend 5 - 6 months for preparation and 2 years for study.

You can reach at a much better place in terms of knowledge, career, money if you get into a suitable role right away.

If you want to get into technical roles with good pay packages, start building your credentials right away.

Your competitors have graduated from IITs, did 2nd year projects in MS / Google / FogCreek in US/EU.

Totally untrue. I learnt way more in my year and half of masters than I did in my four years of undergrad. It all depends on how effectively you utilize the time you spend in your masters. You can either blow it away and get a degree without learning anything or actually use the time to do something interesting.

At the end of my undergrad, I was a confused soul with way too many paths in front of me. At the end of my masters, I absolutely knew where I'd want to spend my next phase of life in and what I'd want to work on. Since a grad student is pretty well versed with his/her subject, it is quite easy for them to start working on something involved and in the process get a few interesting publications.

At the end of my bachelors, I had a job in a place I didn't want to work after going through rounds of interviews while at the end of my masters, I got a job which I'd absolutely kill for to get even without trying - something which had money, career and fun all rolled into one.

Of course since then I've moved on but I still believe that my decision to get a masters was the best thing I could have done.

[Ho0ligaN]

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

another few months and you will realize that any job is a lot of hard work. nobody will pay you to have fun, or build fun things.

you should read how your founder started the company. not for all the hype on history. but just to compare your work life with his. whether he had a swimming pool, gym, fancy campus etc to pamper himself.

Sorry, if I conveyed the wrong meaning. I never meant I wanted to sit around doing nothing. By fun I meant work. I am willing to work 12-14 hours a day or whatever it takes. And do you seriously think all those fancy things they expect us to pamper ourselves with is worth it? There are 15000 people here. All these facilities are open for 4 hours a day in the evening. You do the math and tell me how much of it can we actually use. Lets keep this for another day.

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

It seems you are working in an IT Services company. To get into the kind of role you are looking for, you need to switch to a startup or a company that needs developers with technical skills.


Nobody ever looks at these resumes. Don't expect a response till resume matches keywords for any of current openings. I.e. Queries like "5+ workex, ABC Package version x.y.z"

You need to do "target shooting" instead of carpet bombing.


There are jobs if you are willing to work in companies that require more tech skills.

Masters degree in Comp Sc / IT is not useful. To get into a top tier collage, you would need to spend 5 - 6 months for preparation and 2 years for study.

You can reach at a much better place in terms of knowledge, career, money if you get into a suitable role right away.

If you want to get into technical roles with good pay packages, start building your credentials right away.

Your competitors have graduated from IITs, did 2nd year projects in MS / Google / FogCreek in US/EU.

To match that, start contributing to Open Source projects.

Options are, having your project in Silverlight Showcase / Pushing patches in Drupal / Fix issues in VirtualBox etc etc.

Or start participating in coding competitions.

I am not comparing myself with the IIT graduates. Maybe the examples I gave made you think that I was only after money.

Yes, getting into a suitable role is the right option, I just hope that it will materialize sometime soon.

Originally Posted by Samurai

Ho0ligaN, I am not sure what you are unhappy about...

While the facts you mentioned are about right, what is the problem? You do have a job with an IT major, why are you dragging your bottom across 335 acre campus? Isn't that in Mysore, don't they provide free cycles?

Why are you worried about how much others are making? Don't you know it is much tougher to get jobs off-campus?

BTW, you can't have everything in life.

Fun : Money : Career - Pick any two!

Samuraisan, There aren't enough cycles for all of us here :P

The point I was trying to make was, the ones with no skills are getting jobs off campus, in companies that require a higher technical knowledge. In the end, companies come up with "Employability index is low" etc.


I agree with your last line, one can't have everything right away. I have always believed that money will follow you if you have given your best(The great shankaracharya's exact lines escape me at the moment). I would pick fun and career anyday.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

Totally untrue. I learnt way more in my year and half of masters than I did in my four years of undergrad. It all depends on how effectively you utilize the time you spend in your masters. You can either blow it away and get a degree without learning anything or actually use the time to do something interesting.

My post was specific to "career" not "learning".

To give an example from IT, top tier companies place MS / M.Tech and BS/ B.Tech in exactly same position and in same training program.

For B. Tech, package is 9 - 11 lakh and M Tech would give you just 60k - 100k jump. And you can cover more than that in 2 years (Assuming just 10% growth in package).

Originally Posted by Ho0ligaN

I am not comparing myself with the IIT graduates. Maybe the examples I gave made you think that I was only after money.

Yes, getting into a suitable role is the right option, I just hope that it will materialize sometime soon.

If you are in company that is demanding in terms of technology, either money (Large companies) or fun (startups) is a given.

But you got to build your online reputation and market yourself to get those roles.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

For B. Tech, package is 9 - 11 lakh and M Tech would give you just 60k - 100k jump. And you can cover more than that in 2 years (Assuming just 10% growth in package).

Excuse me, I just have to ask. Is this the salary for a fresh B-Tech? What company pays like this?

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by Ho0ligaN

Sorry, if I conveyed the wrong meaning. I never meant I wanted to sit around doing nothing. By fun I meant work. I am willing to work 12-14 hours a day or whatever it takes. And do you seriously think all those fancy things they expect us to pamper ourselves with is worth it? There are 15000 people here. All these facilities are open for 4 hours a day in the evening. You do the math and tell me how much of it can we actually use. Lets keep this for another day.

I didn't mean "doing nothing" by fun either. I meant "funless" hard work. However, if you understand the harsh realities of life you didn't have to explain the second point, they were interrelated. I am a strong believer in "fun outside work, not inside" (even the example of a certain Mr. Kapasi can not shake my belief LOL). I have seen countless cases of guys quitting project or even employers because they "did not like" the kind of job they were doing. abundance of jobs and the rosy pictue painted by the MNCs at recruitment is partly responsible for that.

If you have a degree in IT and working with one of the respected companies (?), I don't see what you are really cribbing about. As I said earlier, you are probably misled by the fun part of the work advertised everywhere. well, somebody has to do the dirty jobs too, right?

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

My post was specific to "career" not "learning".

To give an example from IT, top tier companies place MS / M.Tech and BS/ B.Tech in exactly same position and in same training program.

For B. Tech, package is 9 - 11 lakh and M Tech would give you just 60k - 100k jump. And you can cover more than that in 2 years (Assuming just 10% growth in package).

What company pays 11 lacs to a fresher in the current economic situation? I'm not aware of any! The highest salaries this year for software jobs were around 8.5-9 from the top tier institutions.

Also FYI, when I joined my first job after a masters, I was paid roughly 3 lacs more than what a b-tech got and was two levels higher up. However these were minor issues - the biggest difference was I got to do what I liked in a research job while the b-techs slogged in pure coding projects. As I said - all depends on what you achieve during your masters. If you can get a few good publications out of the door, your value goes up tremendously.

PS: No one with a masters would go through a training program. If a company forced you to go through it, then the company is not worth joining.

[EssYouWe]

Just to clear up on a few facts...

Companies like Google, Yahoo, Directi, Citrix etc. do pay 8-12 lacs.

Carry on gentlemen.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Excuse me, I just have to ask. Is this the salary for a fresh B-Tech? What company pays like this?

For a Day 0 slot, salaries are around 18 lakh. Job profile is Consultancy / Investment Banking / Petrochemicals. These jobs were traditionally reserved for MBAs from IIM / IVY League in US.

This is for fresh B. Techs to be placed in India.

For M techs, max salaries are lower. Around 11 lakh. That is unless M Tech came in through JEE (with decent AIR) and continued studies.

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

What company pays 11 lacs to a fresher in the current economic situation? I'm not aware of any! The highest salaries this year for software jobs were around 8.5-9 from the top tier institutions.

IIT Delhi campus is on as we speak. Go and have a look at notice board there. This is quite common.

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

PS: No one with a masters would go through a training program. If a company forced you to go through it, then the company is not worth joining.

Say you join Google and are working on GFS. Before working on such a large project you would need to know current system. And training would also cover their development culture + platforms.

[tsk1979]

Whoa! 18 lakhs! I guess one in a million get such offers. Most MNCs offer 4-6 as starting packages for graduates from top tier institutes(eg NITs), IITians get away with 6-8, but then most of the class hovers around 5-6.
Infact bulk of the placement in NITs(formerly RECs) is in companies like Infosys/TCS/Wipro which have a package of around 3L.
I think India record was broken by Goldman Sachs which gave a starting salary of 18L in India to an IITian.
But those days are over.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

But those days are over.

No, this year's packages are similar. Yes jobs are limited, max 10 per collage. 5 - 6 companies have these profiles.

Basically, they bypass MBA and get recruits directly from B. Tech. These jobs require maths + statistical modeling.

Look at this news : (i think news article is exaggerating the number)

Tower Research Capital, a financial services company from New York, has confirmed participation at IIT Kanpur and said it will make its highest offer at Rs 44.5 lakh per annum to the best candidate — an over 100 per cent increase over last year’s highest salary offer of Rs 21.5 lakh. The company will make this offer to students during the final placements.

Source :
1. IITs smile as MNCs return to campuses
2. Slowdown still haunts IIT-M placements | Deccan Chronicle

[tsk1979]

44.5 lakh is a good package, but the question is where is the job based. India or abroad. If 44.5L for India, its bonkers. Where can I apply