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Old 13th October 2012, 21:58   #301
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Default re: IT Industry and Employability of Technical Graduates

Please tell me about your Project?
Sir, it was like this. We had a mug of water kept on top. as it flows down it rotates a wheel. That in turn rotates a dynamo and we generated current.

Awesome idea, do you think you can scale it into something BIG?
No sir.

Hmm, do you think there are some practical applications of this?
No sir.

Have you been to any dam?
Yes sir.

Dams generate electricity, right. How do they do it?
Not very sure sir. I think because they have so much water, the pressure builds up. Then the particles collide with each other. That creates energy.

At this point I stopped.
But maybe I should have asked him if we use frozen water, could we maybe start cold fusion?
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Old 13th October 2012, 22:10   #302
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You asked him a practical question. How are our engineering graduates supposed to know that?

Recently a candidate said this:

Candidate: In future, technology can take care our personal needs.
Panelist: What personal needs?
Candidate: Right now we take shower, brush our teeth, etc. But robots can do that in future.

Stunned panel didn't press the matter any further, especially since the candidate was a female.
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Old 2nd November 2012, 13:43   #303
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We had a very strange session today. A candidate was asked to talk about Impact of technology on Education.

She started drawing pictures on the white board instead. Some strange relationship about market vs product, how it reaches the education eventually, etc. It was pure gobbledygook.

While the panelists sat there confused, I took one look her resume and figured out where it came from. Finally we thanked her and ended the session.

IT Industry and Employability of Technical Graduates-fullscreen-capture-1122012-121020-pm.bmp.jpg

IT Industry and Employability of Technical Graduates-fullscreen-capture-1122012-121032-pm.bmp.jpg

While her BE was in computer science, she had done MTech in Engineering Management, the syllabus is very similar to MBA. This is one of the dangers of doing management studies without any work experience.
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Old 2nd November 2012, 14:11   #304
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Originally Posted by Samurai
We had a very strange session today. A candidate was asked to talk about Impact of technology on Education.

She started drawing pictures on the white board instead. Some strange relationship about market vs product, how it reaches the education eventually, etc. It was pure gobbledygook.

While the panelists sat there confused, I took one look her resume and figured out where it came from. Finally we thanked her and ended the session.

While her BE was in computer science, she had done MTech in Engineering Management, the syllabus is very similar to MBA. This is one of the dangers of doing management studies without any work experience.
Did you not scrutinize her resume whether her profile matched your requirement or not before calling her for interview or did you miss her post graduation specialization?
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Old 2nd November 2012, 15:40   #305
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Did you not scrutinize her resume whether her profile matched your requirement or not before calling her for interview or did you miss her post graduation specialization?
She applied for a software engineer trainee position, the job description of which has been clearly mentioned. It starts with "We are looking for fresh graduates who love programming."

She qualified for the written/communication test based on her BE (computer science). If she wanted to be a programmer after doing MTech in Engineering Management, why should we stop her? After all, I still do programming even after my MBA.
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Old 2nd November 2012, 16:15   #306
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She applied for a software engineer trainee position, the job description of which has been clearly mentioned. It starts with "We are looking for fresh graduates who love programming."

She qualified for the written/communication test based on her BE (computer science). If she wanted to be a programmer after doing MTech in Engineering Management, why should we stop her? After all, I still do programming even after my MBA.
What is that graph supposed to imply? Why is the integration symbol like curve used? Did she give any explanation for the same?

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Old 2nd November 2012, 17:00   #307
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Hmm, not sure. We tried to understand for a while before giving up.

First she had the figure where technology meets people, leading to education. Then she wrote a graph under it, with technology on Y axis and education on X axis.

Then she wrote a graph with market on Y axis and product on X axis. She completely lost us with those recurring S shaped symbols. When asked for clarification, she re-wrote the graph on the left with a magnified S curve. She said, when a product is first introduced, the education system is not impacted by it. After a while as the market accepts the product, it gets used in education system, thus impacts it. That was her way of saying how technology impacts education, like a 30,000ft view. How this graph implies that, I have no idea.

All we wanted to know was how Internet, social media, computers, smartphones, etc., have impacted the education system. When we clarified our question she looked confused and uncertain.
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Old 2nd November 2012, 22:23   #308
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Default re: IT Industry and Employability of Technical Graduates

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All we wanted to know was how Internet, social media, computers, smartphones, etc., have impacted the education system. When we clarified our question she looked confused and uncertain.
Sometimes simple questions can be quite complex to answer. Atleast from the little experience I have, all I see is that we as students were prepared to face the toughest interviews and when things are really as simple as they are supposed to be, things just fall apart. More or less, students are trained to follow certain patterns/trends and hence any deviation from their training, please don't expect a proper answer. This applies to even some PhD's who have just completed their doctoral defence too!
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Old 3rd November 2012, 11:29   #309
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
First she had the figure where technology meets people, leading to education. Then she wrote a graph under it, with technology on Y axis and education on X axis.

Then she wrote a graph with market on Y axis and product on X axis. She completely lost us with those recurring S shaped symbols. When asked for clarification, she re-wrote the graph on the left with a magnified S curve. She said, when a product is first introduced, the education system is not impacted by it. After a while as the market accepts the product, it gets used in education system, thus impacts it. That was her way of saying how technology impacts education, like a 30,000ft view. How this graph implies that, I have no idea.

All we wanted to know was how Internet, social media, computers, smartphones, etc., have impacted the education system. When we clarified our question she looked confused and uncertain.

Ahhh .. As I can understand she was trying to make technology acceptance curve and explain Technology Life cycle and applying to education sector.

This in general is applicable to any new technology in any sector all formal papers on application of technology and even gartner reports are full of these curves


http://elsa.berkeley.edu/~bhhall/pap...0diffusion.pdf


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_lifecycle

https://msbfile03.usc.edu/digitalmea...Adoption-1.pdf


You asked impact of technology on education and she was explaning how new technological products will find accaptance in education sector close but not same.

I would say reinterview this candidate if you have rejected only for this, Not many management graduates can think on those lines.

Last edited by amitk26 : 3rd November 2012 at 11:31.
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Old 3rd November 2012, 11:57   #310
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The purpose of this communication session is to separate wheat from the chaff.

The topics are general enough that any educated adult with common sense, should be able to address it well enough. If the candidate is not capable of unshackling his/her mind when a such a simple question is asked, then the candidate is not a right match for us. This round also tells us whether the candidate can think clearly, is capable of organizing the ideas, and can communicate those ideas clearly in good English.

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More or less, students are trained to follow certain patterns/trends and hence any deviation from their training, please don't expect a proper answer.
Why not? At least 1 in 10 candidates do manage to give proper answer and often with flying colors. I have hired 8 people in the last 5 months, and they all did well to clear this round. Don't be so pessimistic.

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Ahhh .. As I can understand she was trying to make technology acceptance curve and explain Technology Life cycle and applying to education sector.

This in general is applicable to any new technology in any sector all formal papers on application of technology and even gartner reports are full of these curves
I understood what she was trying to do. But she was unable to explain the graphs she wrote. That is not good.

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I would say reinterview this candidate if you have rejected only for this, Not many management graduates can think on those lines.
This being an interactive session, we told her what we wanted right then. But she was not able to switch tracks, and looked confused and uncertain. She is not programmer material for sure (she failed the programming test too), I don't know why she even applied for a programmer position.

Last edited by Samurai : 3rd November 2012 at 12:00.
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Old 3rd November 2012, 12:03   #311
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This being an interactive session, we told her what we wanted right then. But she was not able to switch tracks, and looked confused and uncertain. She is not programmer material for sure (she failed the programmin g test too), I don't know why she even applied for a programmer position.
Perils of specialized masters course which have little relevence to practice.
I do not know what kind of industry will specifically want to hire a master in Engineering Management.

Students are eager to get any job so they apply at all places knowing fully well that they do not fit in but they are hungry for any job.

Actually there are very few people who love something and want to persue that.
I recently went again to an IIT ( one of the older ones ) in begining of October and intercted with students who professed their love to programming. I asked if they are participating in any open source project there was not even a single person in group of 70-80 .
This does not mean that Indians students don't do it there are 51 students from IITs and 38 from IT BHU who got accepted in Google summer of code 2005 - 2012 but the numbers compared to student strength overall are miniscule but I guess these students should be highly employable and get absorbed by top paying recruiters.

Last edited by amitk26 : 3rd November 2012 at 12:12.
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Old 3rd November 2012, 14:43   #312
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Originally Posted by AlphaKilo View Post
Sometimes simple questions can be quite complex to answer. ... More or less, students are trained to follow certain patterns/trends and hence any deviation from their training, please don't expect a proper answer. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
...Not many management graduates can think on those lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
The purpose of this communication session is to separate wheat from the chaff.

The topics are general enough that any educated adult with common sense, should be able to address it well enough. If the candidate is not capable of unshackling his/her mind when a such a simple question is asked, then the candidate is not a right match for us. This round also tells us whether the candidate can think clearly, is capable of organizing the ideas, and can communicate those ideas clearly in good English. ...
* Simple questions ALWAYS have simple answers. Complexity is perceived when one knows jack about the subject. That goes even for the PhD thesis defense example (good example, really). If one knows a subject, the first reaction is to decompose the problem one is faced with into components that can be tackled simply

* 30K' expressions, and meaningless graphs to go with that, are not a natural expression - they are learnt from the environment one grows up in. This is normally confused with abstraction, which is taken to be 'gyan'!!! This lady has learnt it rather well, whether from "interview training" or from college debates (where the audience is also of the same ilk - confusing abstraction with knowledge, and spouting inane expressions). The lack of knowledge extends to the graphs drawn - confused placement of parameters coupled with graphical elements defying convention

* One can define a 'fresher' as 3 key qualities:
- Doesn't have a clue what 'work', common sense and innate abilities are. This results in 'monkey see, monkey do' understanding of the professional world
- Thinks that university education is a natural hurdle to be crossed and forgotten thereafter. Not realizing it is not to give them knowledge, but only to learn HOW TO teach themselves
- Doesn't realize that the interview panel is there to select, and not reject. If they did, they would take pains to be understood, rather than try their level best NOT to be understood by resorting to abstraction in the absence of knowledge. When one doesn't know something, the simplest way is to boldly say "Sorry, I have no clue about this, but I know how to figure it out myself, maybe with some direction given'
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Old 3rd November 2012, 15:41   #313
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Why not? At least 1 in 10 candidates do manage to give proper answer and often with flying colors. I have hired 8 people in the last 5 months, and they all did well to clear this round. Don't be so pessimistic.

Sir, my whole idea was exactly what you have stated in your point. That is, students by themselves are not stupid, but it needs to be brought into them at a very early stage of their lives. Its not just the technical colleges that need to train the students but such exposure needs to be inculcated right from 10th/11th standard in school.

But at the end of the day, every human being is different and hence, the ability one has may or may not be available with the other person and to find out whether it is there or not is the very idea of conducting an interview I hope you will agree with me on this!
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Old 3rd November 2012, 15:55   #314
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* Simple questions ALWAYS have simple answers. Complexity is perceived when one knows jack about the subject. That goes even for the PhD thesis defense example (good example, really). If one knows a subject, the first reaction is to decompose the problem one is faced with into components that can be tackled simply
Exactly, I usually go with people who can do this.

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* 30K' expressions, and meaningless graphs to go with that, are not a natural expression - they are learnt from the environment one grows up in. This is normally confused with abstraction, which is taken to be 'gyan'!!! This lady has learnt it rather well, whether from "interview training" or from college debates (where the audience is also of the same ilk - confusing abstraction with knowledge, and spouting inane expressions).
Everyone wants to do abstract stuff. In the official non-auto image thread, I have waged a constant war over many years over the meaning of abstract.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...tml#post631789 (The Official non-auto Image thread)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post1862618 (The Official non-auto Image thread)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post1924955 (The Official non-auto Image thread)


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When one doesn't know something, the simplest way is to boldly say "Sorry, I have no clue about this, but I know how to figure it out myself, maybe with some direction given'
Absolutely, I often select people who said "don't know" instead of people who try to make up stuff on the fly. It is a sign of confidence too. To say DON'T KNOW needs lot more confidence.

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But at the end of the day, every human being is different and hence, the ability one has may or may not be available with the other person and to find out whether it is there or not is the very idea of conducting an interview I hope you will agree with me on this!
You could have as well said sun rises in the east.
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Old 3rd November 2012, 16:42   #315
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Exactly that's what I also said , In management laden courses students are trained to think that throwing in some sort of graphs and jargon is mandatory.

It takes some years of work experience to unlearn it.
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