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Old 6th December 2012, 13:19   #361
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Is that really so ?
To an extent I would say yes there are many people who put a lot of emphasis on how tough the enterence test to your degree was ( read JEE vs State test vs some softer avanues) otherwise I really do not think of a reason IIT undergrads should be valued more then someone from VJTI Mumbai or from DCE Delhi.

But generally people are not so blunt and rude about it ultimately it depnends on what value you are bringing to the organization.
If the organization has some value for a degree they will surly look for it.
For instance there are many organization which seeks a pedegree either from elite colleges in India or outside India.
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Old 6th December 2012, 14:48   #362
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humyum; The feeling is that most of the people going abroad have not been able to make it to the better colleges in India.
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Old 6th December 2012, 17:28   #363
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...and no IIT has succeeded in establishing traditions like Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard, MIT, Aachen, etc. Traditions is what keeps these great institutions going.
Traditions and the emphasis placed on an overall development are what make these institutions successful. In fact, to a great extent, the 'slogging it out' is more in these institutions than in Indian institutions - considering the overall picture.
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Old 11th December 2012, 21:57   #364
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After all what goes up must come town, and no IIT has succeeded in establishing traditions like Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard, MIT, Aachen, etc. Traditions is what keeps these great institutions going.
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Traditions and the emphasis placed on an overall development are what make these institutions successful. In fact, to a great extent, the 'slogging it out' is more in these institutions than in Indian institutions - considering the overall picture.
The main emphasis on Indian tradition of learning is retentive capacity (memory). Yes, memory is an integral part of learning but emphasis should also be on educating the learner about expressing ideas in his/her own words. I mean to say that even after understanding a topic a student prefers to memorize the lines word for word from the text book or class notes because writing those lines in the the examination would fetch him/her full marks. The teacher generally is quite happy to see such answers. Such practice eventually results in a student unwittingly falling into the trap of plagiarism. Very early in one's student life one should be educated about what amounts to plagiarism and how it could be prevented. The next step would be to stop providing class notes of answers to probable exam questions.
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Old 12th June 2013, 16:57   #365
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It is that time again...

The first candidate of this year walked in and declared that Android was the technology that had the most impact on the 20th century. When is 20th century, obviously it is between 2000-2100. We settled for Android, so that he can say what he knows. He was very bullish about Android, about the versions, it being open source, etc. Since he mentioned open source, I ventured to inquire about custom roms. But he had never heard about it, not even about xda developers. So I backed off from that line of questioning. Which phone OS is the main rival of Android? The MacOS. I gave up.

I didn't ask anything from the BE syllabus. I asked stuff from his interest since he chose Android as his favourite topic, and he had 15 minutes to prepare his talk. It is a depressing start for the year.
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Old 12th June 2013, 18:24   #366
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^^ LOL.
Sometimes this thread gives a tough competition to the Jokes thread and the Real Life Experiences thread!

By the way, to go a little easy on your candidates, why don't you change the question to refer to the "last hundred years" instead of "20th Century" ? Most of you candidates have spent barely a decade in the 20th century after all (assuming they are all fresh graduates)
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Old 12th June 2013, 18:59   #367
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By the way, to go a little easy on your candidates, why don't you change the question to refer to the "last hundred years" instead of "20th Century" ?
The reason is I need thinking people, the ones who are capable of self-learning, kind of people who can watch and learn. In other words, I expect basic observation skills.

So the 20th century question is my litmus test. If a person didn't know which century he is living in, after 21 years, then I would say his/her observation skills are rather poor for my needs.

Example: About 20 years back when I first moved to USA, it took me just two days to realise that I have to say Zee instead Zed when in USA. My room mate however didn't know that even after two years in USA, he kept saying Zad for Zee, and Jeero for Zero. He didn't change even after I pointedly corrected him. He just gave me a confused look. He never learned anything from observation. He simply ignored any new idea. I can't afford that quality in my employees.
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Old 12th June 2013, 19:35   #368
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The reason is I need thinking people, the ones who are capable of self-learning, kind of people who can watch and learn. In other words, I expect basic observation skills.
...
Do you ask your candidates a lot of open ended questions? How do they cope with them?

I interview a lot, and I am finding that more and more people cannot figure out what to do with an open ended scenario which requires them to analyse, apply all their knowledge, throw in a bit of general knowledge/common sense, and then find the answer.
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Old 12th June 2013, 19:47   #369
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Do you ask your candidates a lot of open ended questions? How do they cope with them?
I start with questions that one could answer if they lived in the society with their eyes and ears open. I mean, how far can we lower our standards?

We have electrical engineers who don't know how dams generate electricity. See this: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post2931879

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I interview a lot, and I am finding that more and more people cannot figure out what to do with an open ended scenario which requires them to analyse, apply all their knowledge, throw in a bit of general knowledge/common sense, and then find the answer.
It is stunning, isn't it? The Indian education simply doesn't prepare them for open ended questions.

Last edited by Samurai : 12th June 2013 at 19:53.
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Old 12th June 2013, 20:59   #370
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I was assigned to interview candidates for a new process and it was a walk in. The 1st round being the communication skills round, we had decided to conduct a group discussion.
The 1st topic I chose for the candidates was outsourcing and their views on the same, not even one was able to say anything logical forget about speaking good English. Many complained that the topic was tough

For the second batch I choose a much simpler topic "One thing that you'd like to change in your city"

In about 20 candidates only one spoke up, I was happy with him until he finished speaking ending with "That is enough"

So scrapped the GD round and just asked the candidates to give a brief introduction about themselves. All the candidates had scored more that 60% in their BE. None of them came prepared, most of them had not even bothered to read the JD.

Also there was a major difference in marks scored between the sates, for example those who studied in Karnataka based university had scored around 60 to 75%, those who scored around 75% being toppers. And most students from other university from one state in particular scoring whopping 80% plus. This made it difficult to shortlist students based on scores.

Last edited by motorpsycho : 12th June 2013 at 21:00.
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Old 20th June 2013, 00:44   #371
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After the first disappointing candidate, there were many good ones. Even hired one.

But I am also seeing a disturbing trend. Large companies like TCS, Infosys, etc., hire large number of students in campus interview. But they don't give a joining date. As the students graduate, they are left in a limbo. Since they can't wait forever, they start looking for another job. I get many such candidates.

Last year I hired one such girl, who was brilliant, but TCS gave her the joining date as March. She got disgusted and joined us. She was doing great for 8 months, then her parents decided she shouldn't ignore the wonderful opportunity of working in TCS. As March approached, he parents blackmailed her into switching to TCS.

This year I came across two more such cases. That puts me into a limbo. Should I hire people who will obviously dump me when the big company calls? Heart says yes, head says no. Even if I convince the trainees that they are better off in a small product company, who will convince their ignorant interfering parents?

Anyway, let's get back to the usual comic relief.

A girl with 90+ average in 10th and 12th. A distinction student all through her E&C engineering. Going by her resume and mark sheets, she sounded like a gold mine. But I always curb my enthusiasm until the interview. We were discussing her final project, which read IR frequencies using a photo detector.

Me: Photo detector? Let's talk in electronics terms. I studied electronics in the 80s, I may be able to understand.
She: It is diode I think...
Me: A photo detecting diode? [I could see photo transistor written on her resume]
She: Yeah, it had two legs, so it must be a diode.
Me: So it can't be a transistor?
She: No, two legs, it is a diode.
Me: Diode just allows current in one direction. How can it read any signals?
She: Hmm, don't know.
Me: Your resume says it is a photo transistor.
She: Oh, then it is a photo transistor, not diode.
Me: How do you explain the two legs.
She: Hmm, don't know. Transistor should have 3 legs.
Me: Well, I am new to photo transistors. But let me take a guess based on my 80s knowledge. A normal transistor amplifies the signal given to the base, the third leg. In this case, it is the light signal (IR) that is amplified. That means base here is the photo sensor, no third leg required. Does that make sense?
She: Hmm, may be.
Me: This is your final year project, and you didn't know this?
She: ....

<little later>

Me: You have consistently got 90+ in mathematics every year.
She: Yes, sir.
Me: You know Fourier Transforms well?
She: Yes sir.
Me: What is Fourier Transforms used for?
She: Hmm, don't know.
Me: You are an electronics & communication engineering graduate. But you don't know what Fourier Transforms is used for?
She: Hmm.
Me: Think
She: To solve differential equations? Wait, something to do with amplitude, time domain graph, something.

<and finally>

Me: Name some final semester subjects that you just completed.
She: Realtime Operating systems, blah , blah...
Me: Ok, what is a Realtime OS?
She: If you give some input, it replies right away.
Me: That's it? Is Windows7 a realtime OS?
She: Yes.

There were many more such gaffes, but these 3 would do for now.

Now, anybody who would meet her, would conclude she is a smart & intelligent girl, even brilliant after looking at the mark sheets. But she knew nothing about what she studied. These are the kind of brilliant engineers we are producing.
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Old 20th June 2013, 07:31   #372
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Default re: IT Industry and Employability of Technical Graduates

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Should I hire people who will obviously dump me when the big company calls? Heart says yes, head says no. Even if I convince the trainees that they are better off in a small product company, who will convince their ignorant interfering parents?
That is strange.. I.e. parents interfering in even at this stage of life. Tough call, as you mentioned.

Is CTC significantly different? If that is, then that might be the driver for parents.

Otherwise, it might be carrot of "onsite".

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A girl with 90+ average in 10th and 12th. A distinction student all through her E&C engineering.
...
...
Me: A photo detecting diode? [I could see photo transistor written on her resume]
She: Yeah, it had two legs, so it must be a diode.
Me: So it can't be a transistor?
..
..
Me: You are an electronics & communication engineering graduate. But you don't know what Fourier Transforms is used for?
She: Hmm.
Me: Think
WOW
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Old 20th June 2013, 08:06   #373
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Default re: IT Industry and Employability of Technical Graduates

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Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
That is strange.. I.e. parents interfering in even at this stage of life. Tough call, as you mentioned.

Is CTC significantly different? If that is, then that might be the driver for parents.

Otherwise, it might be carrot of "onsite".
WOW
Many a time its the brand label, and the carrot of onsite. Since the big companies are well known, they think its safe to start the career!!
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Old 20th June 2013, 08:32   #374
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The sad part is I interviewed at least 4 such people. Brilliant academic scores, lots of extra-curricular activities, but no understanding of the course they just completed. For another very smart girl, I asked the following after getting frustrated with her lack of understanding any concept.

Me: Can you name at least one subject in your 4 years of BE that you enjoyed studying.
She: Enjoyed?
Me: Something you loved working on.
She: Huh!
Me: Haven't you seen people playing Sudoku? Or solving puzzles for fun?
She: Oh, that way.
Me: Yeah, did you enjoy programming or solving math problems or design some program just for fun.
She: No, can't think of any.

I think that explains a lot. These obviously intelligent kids have no interest in their field of study. They are ripe candidates for either business school or large companies that just need smart looking graduates with good social skills.
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Old 20th June 2013, 09:03   #375
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The employment situation is really bad. My cousin who runs a very small (5 people) software outlet in Mumbai since they outsource the coding says he receives four or five CVs in his mailbox every day from Computer Science or IT graduates. Many are willing for free as trainees. So things must be really bad.
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