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Old 9th August 2005, 21:47   #16
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Originally Posted by adya33
when you are looking at the bad points of someone make sure you know their positive points too. railway, postal service, all "India" as we know it small mercies
You sound as if they were making us a favour. They needed the postal service to communicate across our large country, for their own administrative/milirary purposes. They needed the railways to quickly transport their army across the country to keep it under control as well as move their loot/goods across the country.

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Originally Posted by adya33
if that made British so rich then why wasn't India that rich before?
Where did you get that? According to the Yale historian Paul Kennedy, India accounted for about 24.5 percent of world manufacturing output in 1750, a share that fell to 1.7 percent by 1900 as the per capita level of industrialization declined sevenfold. In other words, India as a whole was much richer than Britain, which attracted the British, Portugeese, French, etc to India in the first place.
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Old 9th August 2005, 21:54   #17
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so... dont u guys feel absolutely ashamed that the independent india's parliament holds its sessions in a building that was built by the British? that the indian president's office is also a building built by the British?
i know i would if i felt so strongly about the british raj being so bad. But thankfully i dont.
Anyways, when the british came, the indian subcontinent was so divided and there was so much in fighting that if not british, then someone else would have ruled over us and exploited us. Oh by the way, Britain was not the first country to exploit this country. This land has been looted and raided for centuries now. But thanks to the british raj at least, we are still a few years ahead of china as far as IT n BPO is concerned.
Another side note, maybe u wont believe it... indian railways is at 6 sigma. U might laff ur ass off over this but consider this... none of the train delays or accidents happen due to bad planning. Millions of travellers every day get their tickets and complete their travel. Amazing, aint it?

Cheers
Amitoj
PS: dont flame me. i dont really give two hoots about history. always got bad grades in history.
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Old 9th August 2005, 22:02   #18
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Originally Posted by Samurai
According to the Yale historian Paul Kennedy, India accounted for about 24.5 percent of world manufacturing output in 1750, ............. to India in the first place.
Just purely out of curiosity, how has Paul Kennedy defined India way back in 1750? I mean, what all are the regions it has counted as India?
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Old 9th August 2005, 22:03   #19
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Reason why South Bombay was never flooded ..... British planned its drainage system
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Old 9th August 2005, 22:18   #20
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For me they have done a lot for INDIA.
They haven't done anything for INDIA. They have done everything for themselves cos they thought that they would rule India forever. They needed whatever they had back in UK also in India. So they started the railways and built roads to serve their own purposes.
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Old 9th August 2005, 22:27   #21
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Everyone's entitled to his / her own thoughts about the British. Let's not start a pro British - anti British war here.
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Old 9th August 2005, 22:34   #22
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The fact still remains that whatever the british built still stand tall and proud while whatever we built after our independence well stands ....just about with a whole lotta repairs going on every few days ......

case in point - the Old stations on the harbour line of central railway lie dockyard road that is built wy back and still steady...while our new buildings in places like thane are washed away in a single days rain. For ex - take the VT ..oops CST station , its still magnificient to look at and serves the railway as well as it did when it was built....while the just take a walk at the newly constructed Bandra Terminus station.....it was leaking from every possible nook and corner just 2 days after it was opened to public !! Shocking !!

forget railways - whats the state of our so called state of the art cemented roads that are supossed to last for 25 years without potholes appearing ...we all know what happens to those very roads in a couple of years !

The British - yeah agreeed they wanted to rule / rob our country and built these services for them selves - we inherited these after independence and promptly proceeded to spoil them !

oopps - i diverted from the original post !

Mangal Pandey - The Rising has already run into controversy ! the people in the home town on Mangal Pandey have already started demonstrations regarding how can their hero be shown enjoying a Mujra !!

i mean :WTFf: ??

anyways - it might just turn out to be a publicity stunt as well - who knows ?
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Old 9th August 2005, 23:07   #23
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Mangal Pandey - The Rising has already run into controversy ! the people in the home town on Mangal Pandey have already started demonstrations regarding how can their hero be shown enjoying a Mujra !!

i mean :WTFf: ??
the main problem producer/director/actors must have faced is there isn't too much written about Mangal Pandey in history.
Mangal Pandey came into light when he started the freedom fight & from there the history has mentioned him. But prior to that there must be really less info available about him.
this was mentioned by Rani Mukharjee during her interview on Aaj Tak

@Samurai: as I said before lets get back to topic. sorry I am not going to comment on your post. If you want to debate further please create such topic & I will be happy to have good constructive debate with you
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Old 9th August 2005, 23:20   #24
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Mangal Pandey - The Rising has already run into controversy ! the people in the home town on Mangal Pandey have already started demonstrations regarding how can their hero be shown enjoying a Mujra !!

i mean :WTFf: ??
WTF repeats!! Those people are mad ... till date no one was even remembering Mangal Pandey or his heroics as very less was written about him.
They should be proud that their very own Mangal Pandey will be on International screens rather then doing stupid things, they should support.
When one thinks about India's independence, one person comes to mind not Mangal Pandey or Bhagat Singh but Gandhiji and I never liked his tactics.
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Old 9th August 2005, 23:42   #25
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I wrote this long back, couldn't submit because of a phone call. Now I'll come back to original topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aditya
Everyone's entitled to his / her own thoughts about the British. Let's not start a pro British - anti British war here.
It is not a war, I think we are having a health discussion here.

The main argument here is about intent of British, did 19th century British built the infrastructure in India for Indians or British. Isn't the answer obvious? When they left they didn't destroy the infrastructure that they built for themselves, for that I am thankful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj
so... dont u guys feel absolutely ashamed that the independent india's parliament holds its sessions in a building that was built by the British? that the indian president's office is also a building built by the British?
Why Amitoj, why should we be ashamed of a building built in India using Indian resources and Indian labour? I consider it a tiny payback from British for what they took from us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj
Just purely out of curiosity, how has Paul Kennedy defined India way back in 1750? I mean, what all are the regions it has counted as India?
Pre-partition India that includes Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj
Oh by the way, Britain was not the first country to exploit this country. This land has been looted and raided for centuries now.
If you are referring to Ghazni/Ghori etc, they came, looted and left, and repeated it few more times. Also they were never in control of whole Indian sub-continent. British had control over most of India for nearly 200 years and systematically looted over the period. That's the difference.

Guys, don't get it wrong. I don't hate the British. They came when we were a very rich collection of provinces (if not a single country), kept us enslaved for 200 years, and left us as one of the poorest country (yes, United), and some of you want to thank them for few infrastructure they left behind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj
indian railways is at 6 sigma. U might laff ur ass off over this but consider this... none of the train delays or accidents happen due to bad planning. Millions of travellers every day get their tickets and complete their travel. Amazing, aint it?
That's great! Whom do you want to credit this to? The British who started the Indian railways 150 years back? or the people who managed it in the last 58 years?

I'd like to credit Indians for moving from one of the poorest countries in 1947 to one of the top 10 economies in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj
But thanks to the british raj at least, we are still a few years ahead of china as far as IT n BPO is concerned.
This is because America speaks Engish, right? You know, when they voted to pick the US national langauge back in 1776, German lost to English by only one vote. It could have gone the other way if couple of English members couldn't make it voting that day. Then America would have taken the side of Germany in both the world wars and that would have been a whole new ball game. Then we would have wished Germany colonised us...

Last edited by Samurai : 9th August 2005 at 23:51.
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Old 9th August 2005, 23:50   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F 50
WTF repeats!! Those people are mad ... till date no one was even remembering Mangal Pandey or his heroics as very less was written about him.
That's true about most of Indian history. We have very little written history, most is from folk lore, therefore it is very difficult to separate fact from myth.

Most of the Kings at least wrote some stone tablets about who ruled from what time to what time, etc. But if you want to know how people were, what did they eat, what did they wear, how did they relax, there is absolutely no records of it. Except you look at soe chronicles from foreign visitors.
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Old 10th August 2005, 00:25   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai
Basically they robbed a million rupees and then threw back a rupee. You want to thank the British for that, fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai
Guys, don't get it wrong. I don't hate the British. They came when we were a very rich collection of provinces (if not a single country), kept us enslaved for 200 years, and left us as one of the poorest country (yes, United), and some of you want to thank them for few infrastructure they left behind.
& then he goes ahead & says

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai
? When they left they didn't destroy the infrastructure that they built for themselves, for that I am thankful.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai
Then America would have taken the side of Germany in both the world wars and that would have been a whole new ball game.
can't remember from top of my head about first world war
but in second world war NO WAY USA would have enterd from Germanys side.
Reason : Germany - Japan allies, Japan attacked USA (Perl Harbor)
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Old 10th August 2005, 00:30   #28
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If you are referring to Ghazni/Ghori etc, they came, looted and left, and repeated it few more times. Also they were never in control of whole Indian sub-continent. British had control over most of India for nearly 200 years and systematically looted over the period. That's the difference.
so according to you occational looting is better than straight away ruling for 200 years
don't forget allthough british people did for their benifite they educated indians, provided them salary. which resulted in rise of middle class in india.
built some infrastructure

from the above two you mentioned I would anyday prefer british ruling over being looted over & over again
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Old 10th August 2005, 00:47   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F 50
Reason why South Bombay was never flooded ..... British planned its drainage system

and also go have a look at marine drive ever wondered why its still one of the best roads to drive on.its because it was built by the british years ago and still is in very good condition except for patches and that also because that part of the road was dug up for telephone cables or some **** or the other but besides that it still is so good.


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Old 10th August 2005, 06:10   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adya33
can't remember from top of my head about first world war
but in second world war NO WAY USA would have enterd from Germanys side.
Reason : Germany - Japan allies, Japan attacked USA (Perl Harbor)
Frankly, if USA would have been a German speaking country whom do you think they would allied with, UK or Germany? Then Japan would have never attacked Pearl Harbour. Things would have been way too different then.

I think it is time to rest my case, I am apparently not getting my points through. I sincerely feel you study world history, they would give you much better insight into why countries behave the way to do, in the past, present & future. I studied most of my history after passing college, from independent sources, therefore you have ample time to learn on your own once you graduate.
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