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Old 10th August 2005, 07:27   #31
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I think more than the physical loss by the so called 'looting', the British rule has left a mental scar, a inferiority complex that has caused us to not develop fast enough even after 55 years of independence.

Look at Japan, Germany, Malaysia, Singapore they were also in tatters after WW2......but they put their head down and went to work building their countries and economies.

As far as British uniting us.......I dont think they really did. They fostered more enemity in-between us by letting castism, racism, corruption and language sentiments flourish. In fact, I think India is still being affected by these issues.

By the way, they chose to develop S.Africa as a really modern country because they chose to settle there unlike India.
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Old 10th August 2005, 07:58   #32
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As far as I can remember, the US entered WW2 for just two reasons.
1. One of their cruiseliners was sunk by a German torpedo.
2. The US has had lent a lot of money to Britain. If England lost the war, all those loans would be bad debts. The US never "loved" England, they just wanted their money back.

As far as castism, infighting and bloodshed in the name of religion is concerned, India already had a history of these before the Brits even got here. Remember the Rajas, Maharajas and Aurangzeb? The Brits just exploited these weaknesses.

If the British didn't come here, someone else would - maybe the Germans maybe the Spanish or the Dutch and they too would not treat Indians in any better / worse way. It was up to our ancestors to unite and put up a fight and that unfortunately, didn't happen.
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Old 10th August 2005, 08:29   #33
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someone bother about the topic as well


people gone really off-topic out here
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Old 10th August 2005, 09:23   #34
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Originally Posted by BuRnT RuBbEr
someone bother about the topic as well
people gone really off-topic out here
We are talking about British rule, aren't we? That's the topic...
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Old 10th August 2005, 10:33   #35
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Originally Posted by Samurai
systematically looted over the period. That's the difference.
They followed a system everywhere. That made them great in making things great.

Now, highways dept will lay the road with median, after a month or so the median will be drilled for laying electrical post & roads will be cut open for laying telephone cables. We really missed to inherit the systematic ways of doing things from BRITISH.

In one of the posts it was mentioned that British created castes, racism, corruption etc to keep the Indians divided, we are following all those bad one's and left out the good one's or may be not making the most out of it atleast to the extent we do for the bad one's
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Old 10th August 2005, 12:37   #36
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Well, heated debate .. (without Fiat thankfully LOL)

I hate the Brits for ever daring to rule us, but on the other side, I hate the way we could not better whatever they had done. We inherited not only the railways and the postal service from them, we also got the IAS, the IPS, the forestry service, a few outstanding buildings, the military and the basic underpinnings of our democratic and legal systems. But have we seen a change for the better? IMHO we have not and whatever is happening is happening too slowly. The recent floods in Mumbai are a good example.

The British built these services to loot India that is true. But who wouldn't? If India ever became a colonial power, we would be doing the same to some unfortunate country. And the point is not whether it is good or bad - it is always bad - the point is how well you can take and improve whatever we have inherited. That is something the British could have taught us maybe? Or did we not learn?

Regarding Mangal Pandey as a topic in a film, well I can expect the treatment to be top class - after all it is Aamir Khan! But I don't know if it will be authentic enough as a biopic on Mangal Pandey. I am more a fan of objectivity and greyness - where there are no heroes or villains, just characters - but I think it is high time we had some decent heroes idolized in cinema,be they authentic or just rhetorically built up. In that sense yes I welcome the film and hope it has a good run. I was terribly disappointed with the failure of Swades.

Regarding it getting into controversy, well it will. There are too many things that can be picked up and fought over. The magnitude of the controversy is something I cannot predict though. I just hope it will be something like - Mangal Pandey did not have that long a moustache or something like that. But who know?
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Old 10th August 2005, 16:51   #37
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Frankly, if USA would have been a German speaking country whom do you think they would allied with, UK or Germany? Then Japan would have never attacked Pearl Harbour. Things would have been way too different then.
you gotta be kidding me.
USA was previously British Colonies & after their independance lots of British people decided to stay there.
Just because you speak same language doesn't mean that you should be allies.
Indians & Pakistanis both speak Hindi but are these two countries allies?
will they be in near future?


you are getting into too much IF's
sorry in History there is no place of IF's
History is what has happened not what had happened.

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I studied most of my history after passing college, from independent sources, therefore you have ample time to learn on your own once you graduate.
I also have gathered a lot of info on world history
only difference is I decided to gather the other side of history which for suitable reasons is not taught to us in school

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Well, heated debate .. (without Fiat thankfully LOL)
STOP BRINGING FIAT INTO ALL TOPICS
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Old 10th August 2005, 17:16   #38
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Double posting by mistake...

Last edited by Samurai : 10th August 2005 at 17:17.
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Old 10th August 2005, 17:16   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adya33
you gotta be kidding me.
USA was previously British Colonies & after their independance lots of British people decided to stay there.
While it was a British colony, most of the population weren't British. Germans did outnumber British, but there were other europeans too like French, Dutch, swiss, Scandinavians, Irish (who hated British), etc. For example, look at this link. In 1766, a third of Pennsylvania's population were German immigrants. And guess where the US declaration of Independence was done, in Pennsylvania. Also see this one. I didn't get this knowledge by googling (except the links), I had German American friends who used to tell me about these things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adya33
I also have gathered a lot of info on world history only difference is I decided to gather the other side of history which for suitable reasons is not taught to us in school
Apparently not enough, that's why I don't want to continue arguing with you...
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Old 10th August 2005, 19:53   #40
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Wow! Why the hell did I not see this thread earlier? I thought its some movie topic and hence ignored it. Would have loved to contribute!

Damn, those British buggers had Oxford and Cambridge in 16th century and Newton came up with Calculus and gravitational laws around same time! Europe had industrial revolution in 18th century and ruling half the world, while we Indians were still debating whether it is against religion to cross oceans.
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Old 11th August 2005, 11:58   #41
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Time and again I avoided myself from posting in this thread. But pathetic ignorance displayed by some posts is brining me back here...

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Damn, those British buggers had Oxford and Cambridge in 16th century and Newton came up with Calculus and gravitational laws around same time! Europe had industrial revolution in 18th century and ruling half the world, while we Indians were still debating whether it is against religion to cross oceans
I would like to remind you about nalanda (though this one is slightly pre-historic)... and then regarding calculus and gravitational laws... well they didn’t exist in that name, but sure these subjects have been dealt in detail when those north Atlantic regions were filled with barbarians (forgive me for this).

Remember, most the things that ur hear “as first discovered by Europeans” (like earth is a speriacal etc...) where not first time known to human kind. Its the first time these Europeans came to know about it. Asia, mostly china and india, knew all these things much before them. Its just that ur school text books are derived from these european "discoveries and inventions" and not, unfortunately, from our sanskrit texts.

Regarding this crossing water and conquering world... i know atleast one example where this ur stmt is wrong. There was atleast one south indian kingdom called "chola" who have gone over and conquered most of the south east asia. Read some where that these countries like thailand and indonesia still have "garuda" as the national emblem. Subcontinents cultural domination over south east asia, and china to some extent, is pretty significant. One example is buddhism... all these couldn’t have been achieved with out crossing over that water.

One reason why indian never ventured out might be because, most of the other nations (except for may be china, persia...), there was nothing much inviting for them there to go and plunder upon. All I can say is that, the europeans got their timing correct. They entered into subcontinent, when moguls where on decline, and before any other kindgdom could rise to power. Marathas could have done that. But this internal bickering, which is so part of our countries tradition undid them also.

One thing for sure, our educational system sure requires a revamp. And because of this education I could be ignorant too... correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 11th August 2005, 12:17   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkrishn
All I can say is that, the europeans got their timing correct. They entered into subcontinent, when moguls where on decline, and before any other kindgdom could rise to power.
Actually they kept trying for centuries until they found an opening. The portugeese have known the route to India since 15th century, but they kept it secret. That forced the Spanish to find alternate route using Columbus, that guy got so lost, rest is history...

The first British visitors came around early 1600s to Jahangir's court, however mogul were too powerful at that time. It took them 150 years more before Mogul become weak and ready for a corporate takeover...
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Old 13th August 2005, 16:28   #43
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Originally Posted by Samurai
That forced the Spanish to find alternate route using Columbus, that guy got so lost, rest is history...

wish he had died before reaching his destination ......we would not have seen some of the worst wars of the modern world....and moreover, ther would not have been any "bush"...
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Old 17th August 2005, 00:28   #44
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Originally Posted by Samurai
Actually they kept trying for centuries until they found an opening. The portugeese have known the route to India since 15th century, but they kept it secret. That forced the Spanish to find alternate route using Columbus, that guy got so lost, rest is history...
i think ur history has gone corupt.Colombus set sail to find indian sub continent in 1492.whereas vasco da gama set sail to find indian sub-continent on 8th july 1497.it is a different thing that colombus never reached india.
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Old 17th August 2005, 07:06   #45
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Originally Posted by merve_extreme
i think ur history has gone corupt.Colombus set sail to find indian sub continent in 1492.whereas vasco da gama set sail to find indian sub-continent on 8th july 1497.it is a different thing that colombus never reached india.
Ah! You got me on the wrote foot. Well, I didn't consult the all knowing google before writing that, I just wrote from memory. I stand corrected. However, I am not entirely incorrect.

At that time portuguese were known as the greatest explorers of the sea and were actively exploring the route to India via Africa. This is exactly the reason why portuguese refused to finance Columbus, they didn't believe in his east via west concept. The spanish however were desparate to find a route to India, they didn't really know whether portuguese had found it or not, those days knowledge of sea routes were heavily guarded. Which is why Spanish finally decided to fund Columbus besides his revolutionary idea. Finally it was the portuguese who the route to India in 15th century, not spanish. I didn't exactly remember the year, nor did I check it.
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