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Old 27th November 2009, 11:04   #16
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Nikhil, it looks like the name of the person who bought the tyres (Mr.X) & the name of the credit card holder (Mr.A) is different!
Basically, that person used someone else's credit card for the purchase!

Why did you allow that credit card transaction?
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Old 27th November 2009, 11:09   #17
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Nikhil, in this case you will need to file an FIR if the bank debits your account,


Unfortunately here you have very little evidence so as to say, you took his photo ? you have cctv footage of the transaction ? If no then you will need to file an FIR.

We have the same dilemma, stolen cards used at a pump, we have cctv footage of the Transaction machine and we keep a photo of the card (not the reverse of the card for security).

Hope this helps.
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Old 27th November 2009, 11:13   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
Nikhil, it looks like the name of the person who bought the tyres (Mr.X) & the name of the credit card holder (Mr.A) is different!
Basically, that person used someone else's credit card for the purchase!

Why did you allow that credit card transaction?
Agree.... that was a mistake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
1: What are the terms and conditions with Citibank - no doubt you got electronic approval from them - they have no right to repudiate transaction
2: What is Citibank who asked you to refund or someone posing as citibank?
3: What tyres did they buy - might be worth snoopin around to see whether X2 has vehicles which require these tyres
4: Suggest you fit CC tv's and keepa months worth of tapes on record
It is Citibank itself.

They bought 4 Innova tyres+ tubes and 2 extra tubes for Innova and 2 tubes for Qualis.

No CCTVs as yet. We have only a normal security system. We need to decide whether we need to invest huge amounts in CCTVs when these kind of incidents can be prevented by being a little more careful
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Old 27th November 2009, 11:17   #19
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You don't need a cctv.

Just keep an ordinary web cam. I assume you do have a computer billing system.
Everytime someone buys from you.
Along with the bill ask them to smile and take a pic.

Save the pic with the bill number as the filename.
Ordinary pictures will not exactly take a lot of space and you have your proof.

This will also become a cool feature. When someone comes back with an issue and says I dont have a bill. Just ask them date of purchase and you have the mug shot.
So you know the guy is telling the truth and he feels, arre waah.
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Old 27th November 2009, 11:39   #20
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Now-a-days most of the shop's ask for a photo id for purchases above Rs.5000 or so when the credit card is not a photocard. Also it is a must to verify the signature
(as on the card as well as charge slip). With lot of credit card scam are happening, shopowners already started insisting all these follow ups (ofcourse little irritating for a genuine card holder).

Non-photo cards are the one mostly used for this kind of scam and they knew many merchants normally do not adhere the practise of veryfying the signature or ask for a photo identity.

In other point -Citibank authorised the purchase on the card which was swiped but how does citibank knew if the person who gave the card/signed on the charge slip are the original holder of the card? Normally when you swipe a card, you get authorisation provided the card is valid on that date and the amount charged is within the limit of the card holder. And the merchant is reponsible for the identity of the card holder? This is my opion only.
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Old 27th November 2009, 11:57   #21
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A sticky situation. I wonder if I go and swipe my card, just give some address and number, then later if I say I did not swipe it, will the bank debit the merchant? Its a big scam then.

IMHO this is why all Credit/Debit cards should have the cardholders photo embossed on them.
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Old 27th November 2009, 12:02   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raul View Post
Forgive my ignorance but why do merchants have have to take this risk for the transaction when the bank manages the cards, approval, security and also gets the profits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
1: What are the terms and conditions with Citibank - no doubt you got electronic approval from them - they have no right to repudiate transaction
2: What is Citibank who asked you to refund or someone posing as citibank?

ALL Credit card transactions happen on Merchant's Risk. Only was out is to buy insurance against fraud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
3: What tyres did they buy - might be worth snoopin around to see whether X2 has vehicles which require these tyres
This is the best lead. Cops can track based on their knowledge of possible buyers of tyres.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinsid View Post
A sticky situation. I wonder if I go and swipe my card, just give some address and number, then later if I say I did not swipe it, will the bank debit the merchant? Its a big scam then.

IMHO this is why all Credit/Debit cards should have the cardholders photo embossed on them.
Yes bank would reverse the transaction "temporarily". It is supposed to start a investigation. If Merchant can not provide sufficient proof than reversal in permanent.

Last edited by NetfreakBombay : 27th November 2009 at 12:10.
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Old 27th November 2009, 12:10   #23
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Nikhil,

I think you need not pay for this. Visa and Master usually cover the banks for Fraud like these. I suggest that you stick to your version and tell them that there is no way you could have verified more than you did. Let Citibank go back to Visa or Master to settle this.
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Old 27th November 2009, 12:28   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
After the card was swiped & the auth came from the bank, the slip was brought to me for my signature. I refused, called my bank. They said once swiped they can not reverse the transaction / billing. I had to go through with the transaction.
Bank cannot directly cancel an approved transaction - atleast not in India. You can ask the merchant to rollback the transaction => This means the merchant himself is authorizing to cancel the bank off the transaction.
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Old 27th November 2009, 12:39   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
After the card was swiped & the auth came from the bank, the slip was brought to me for my signature. I refused, called my bank. They said once swiped they can not reverse the transaction / billing. I had to go through with the transaction.
This is wrong information provided by bank.

I have used chargeback in India. Unless you have singed on charge slip, and merchant has presented the slip to its bank, transaction is still not complete.

But if you have signed on the slip, bank can not reverse the transaction.

In Indian banks, process is called "charge slip retrieval". It is your right to to ask for signed charge slip as proof of customer's authorization.

Bankls usually charge 200 Rs per slip as retrieval charges.
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Old 27th November 2009, 12:44   #26
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Nikhil,
In all the Card transaction I do, my name appears on the transaction slip that is generated. Does Mr. X's Name appear on the transaction slip or Mr A's. If X's name does not appear then Mr. X has frauded you. Else bank has wrongly debited Mr A instead of Mr. X. Also does Mr. X's Signature(some letters, any other way by which name can be made out from signature) & Name on the transaction slip look similar on visual inspection?

Again as per my knowledge, it is the responsibility of the merchant to match the signature on the card & on the transaction slip (This is called card verified in person). If this does not match then the merchant is made liable to the payment. (If it does card holder is made liable:-) ). Banks always play it safe.
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Old 27th November 2009, 12:47   #27
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Nikhil, thats an interesting thing to hear. Nowadays nobody bothers to varify signatures or photo IDs, what you said is true. I am having my 4th time upgraded credit card from HDFC (from Silver to Platinum) in the last 4 years, they never gave me a photo card, neither for my wife. Whereas even the ATM card from AXIS bank has my photo on it.

I had swiped my card at Metro Ford for over 1.40 laks once, the guy in the cash counter never even looked at me, how strange !! Another ocasion I had swiped my wife's card for over a lakh, same story again, nobody even looked at me. So security part of the customer is always at stake if the card is a stolen one. But when it comes to merchant, whatever you said is news to me. My cousine runs a state distribution of few home appliances from Bangalore since 10 years, he has 4 outlets where credit card swiping happen almost every hour. He never faced any similar issue when I cross checked with him after reading your posts.

Now, HDFC also has another security feature for the card holder (I am not sure about other banks) which is in effect over an year. You can set the minimum amount (My minimum is selected as Rs.5000), card processing department will call me whenever my card is swiped for 5k or above. Usually that call comes before I even leave the shop almost 99% of the time.

I am not sure how Citibank is dealing with similar things. The best step from your side could be involving cops into it, buyer at your shop might have used the same card at different places too, so dont let him get away. Interactions from your shop will never be taken seriously as the buyer has already got his required products from you.
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Old 27th November 2009, 13:04   #28
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all said and done.. i can assure you (based on personal experience), as long as you have the credit card charge slip, bank can't debit your account under any circumstances. remember, this is THE PRIME document that would establish that the card was physically present at the time of transaction. preserve it and you're SAFE! :-)
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Old 27th November 2009, 13:05   #29
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This looks like a scam alright. My friend was telling me about this one guy who would borrow CC from his friends, swipe the card at a shop and then immediately ask the cardholder to call his bank and report the card as stolen (even register a police complaint if needed). This way they don't have to pay for the last transaction. Maybe a similar game is being played by Mr. X and Mr. A
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Old 27th November 2009, 13:07   #30
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@shaju - I dont think Citibank do have that minimum amount security facility on their cards. I have Credit cards from Citibank and dont remember they called me. This kind of arrangement or security is good, the max you tend to lose is Rs.5000, incase the card is being used by others?
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