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Old 28th November 2009, 17:31   #46
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Hi,

My views from the merchant's side:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
You can refuse to sign charge slip, Merchant's bank would not accept it during settlement. Money would be automatically be credited back to your account. Transaction would fail in "capture" stage. ****
I have had people refuse to sign the charge slip if they have put in the PIN numbers in the EDC machine for approval (where it asks for the PIN). At least 50% of the cards do not carry a signature.

After the electronics machines have come, there is no need for submitting the charge slips or summary to the bank. The amount is automatically credited in the account.

Not having a signature on the charge slip would matter in case of a dispute and the bank asks for the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
Merchant can cancel it on POS terminal
I do agree with the above and have done it too. And it works. But not when the transaction has been done with a DEBIT card. The cancellation or VOIDing happens in the EDC machine and won't be sent for settlement. So the customer gets debited from his account and the merchant does not get the same.
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Old 28th November 2009, 18:10   #47
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Nikhil, if the card is not reported as stolen, the money is yours. Even if the card was stolen, but you have swiped it on-line and the card was accepted, still the money is yours. The bank has to investigate, and either reject the card-holders claim or swallow the loss. It's not your problem at all.
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Old 28th November 2009, 19:19   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trrk View Post
My views from the merchant's side:



I have had people refuse to sign the charge slip if they have put in the PIN numbers in the EDC machine for approval (where it asks for the PIN). At least 50% of the cards do not carry a signature.

After the electronics machines have come, there is no need for submitting the charge slips or summary to the bank. The amount is automatically credited in the account.
Technically, merchant is not supposed to "capture" the transaction unless charge slip has been signed.

If charge slip has not been signed, customer can ask for "charge slip retrieval" and bank would have to revert the transaction.
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Old 28th November 2009, 21:58   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windsurfer View Post
Citibank does send an SMS if you swipe the card for more than 5k. It was started recently.
They call as well, if the amount is above a certain threshold. It has happened a couple of times for me.
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Old 29th November 2009, 19:48   #50
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Usually bank will not Digest the charges, they'll put it on Merchant, so you need to take legal help at least to teach the Fraudster buyer a lesson.
Talk to Bank and if you are sure about the customer, check if your tyres are still in his possession and Lodge a F.I.R. as 420 claiming he's placed a charge-back on Goods Already delivered.

I do have online merchant account but if a customer charge backs, we have to block that customer on services but the amount is immediately reversed by our payment processor to card holder and normally in only 1% cases the seller is able to prove the sale and fight for it.

Simple thing is You have to 200% prove the sales, if you do you'll be safe, else bear the loss.
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Old 30th November 2009, 10:30   #51
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Bank people normally do this kind of tricks telling customer/merchant to take the responsibility of the transaction. In 2006, my card was stolen and used to purchase some jewellery (worth 25K) from a MG road shop. When bank called me to confirm the transaction I told that card is stolen and asked them to block any further transaction. But they told that they can block future transactions but had to pay whatever purchases already done. Same time bank contacted jeweller and told them that they would not be getting the payment for the transaction. I went and complained to the police and they did nothing other than an FIR!!!.

Me, my friend and Jeweller did some smart move/investigation and caught the thief and associates within 3 hours.
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Old 30th November 2009, 10:33   #52
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Earlier, the Citibank EDC machines used dot-matrix to print the charge-slips.

These days, most of the charge-slips are printed on Thermal paper - where the print and signature will get erased very soon.
And in these cases, Merchant will also find it difficult to submit a copy of the charge-slip to the Bank, should any dispute arise.
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Old 30th November 2009, 10:46   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latheesh View Post
Me, my friend and Jeweller did some smart move/investigation and caught the thief and associates within 3 hours.
OT: Could you kindly give info in details please? Am interested to know how you cought them? I am sure others will like to know too.
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Old 30th November 2009, 12:59   #54
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
Technically, merchant is not supposed to "capture" the transaction unless charge slip has been signed.
I did not understand 'capture'. The transaction with the bank server ends when the chargeslip is generated. Settlement is at the end of the day, usually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
If charge slip has not been signed, customer can ask for "charge slip retrieval" and bank would have to revert the transaction.
So far we have refused to accept the sales without the customer signing the charge slip.
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Old 30th November 2009, 13:06   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinsid View Post
OT: Could you kindly give info in details please? Am interested to know how you cought them? I am sure others will like to know too.
The person who stole the card was known to me. He was a smart a** and he chose two of his friends to do the transaction on his behalf and to avoid getting caught in CCTV. When jewller was informed by bank regarding payment issue, they took my cell number from bank and called when I was at the police station. After finishing the FIR I and my friend rushed to jeweler and with the help of manager we started checking the video and you know the quality of the video in CCTV footage. I could not recognize any of them first time but second time I could recognize one of his associate in the footage; I had seen him couple of time in the same locality thanks to my strong memory (then).Then we checked with the sales staffs to identify those people, after couple of minutes of checking one sales man identified them and confirmed that those were the people who bought the gold chain. Identification process was difficult as this jewller is very famous and on weekends his store is crowded like a vegetable market. We decided to handover this footage to the police next day but I had no hope that police would be able to do something. There came a help from one of the customer care lady, they were doing some customer feedback process during that time and told that she had given feedback form to one of the guys, after 10-15 minutes of checking she could locate the form filled by them. Form had my name written but address and phone numbers were different. Manager called the number written in the form just to check whether it is valid or not, to our surprise someone picked the phone, on questioning he told us that they were the people who bought the chain. This answer came as a surprise to us; we were wondering why someone would steal the card and do a purchase and leave his correct number in the feedback form. On further questioning he told us that he was just accompanying other person and was unaware that credit card used was stolen. He thought that other guy was using some of his friends/relative’s card with their permission. We threatened him that they were caught in CCTV and no way that they can escape and asked them to come to the store with the chain within 30 min. He got panicked and started crying and confirmed us that he would be reaching the store with other two guys in 30 min. All the three reached the store and you know how store security people welcomed them
Main culprit who stole my card from my home was known to me and was employed with a top US MNC in Bangalore then and was drawing more than 6 lakh rupee salary. I was stunned to see him in the group. He started crying in front of me and begged not to handover them the police. Store manager confirmed that if they hand them over to the police they would be put behind bar for at least 6 months as this comes under cyber crime, and was sure that he would loose his job. I was very upset about the whole incident and forgave them, some said I should have handed over them to police.

Last edited by Latheesh : 30th November 2009 at 13:11.
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Old 30th November 2009, 16:41   #56
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^^ Fantastic.Glad to know the shopkeeper and his team actively supported you.
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Old 30th November 2009, 17:12   #57
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Nikhil, If the merchant knowingly swipes A's credit card without A being present, then the merchant is at fault. It is indeed the merchants responsibility to match the signature of the person and if in doubt, ask for some photo id. Normally you are protected since your process involves noting down the registration number of the car, but in this case there was no car.

Now, I see some people saying that they've used their wife's card etc... and it has worked, but just cos it works does not mean its the correct procedure.

If I'm a credit card holder and my card is stolen/cloned etc... and used to buy goods, I have all the rights to ask the bank to furnish the charge slip and if the signatures do not match, I will not pay. I mean, think about it, how would I even know that my card has been cloned and why would I pay for someone misusing my card when the merchant has not even bothered to verify the signature/identity of the card holder?

As to the role of Mr.X and his brother, well, all I can say is that please involve the cops. Please file an FIR, and let them do their job. They should be able to resolve things if Mr.X does not deny the transaction, and can explain how he came into possession of Mr.A's card.

Wish you luck in this matter.
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Old 30th November 2009, 18:44   #58
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Yes, even I suggest to file an FIR as this may help you to solve this issue.
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