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Old 23rd February 2012, 16:54   #136
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Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

Quote:
Originally Posted by aadithsince1980 View Post
Guys, here is an update:
I called the Ooty branch this morning but they said that I have to be physically present at the branch and they will not sort out the issue over the phone.
SBI is one bank where Anywhere Banking is still not fully accepted, so yes, they expect the person to be present in the branch. One solution is to transfer the account to Bangalore. One good thing about SBI is that the account number would not be changed in this case.

Regarding copying by other machine, well if I remember correctly, it is a Maestro card which means the owner of the card has to enter PIN number in swiping machine to complete the transaction. So swiping at Swarna Hospital should not be possible since the next person would not be knowing your PIN. Besides if it had been swiped at any Point of Sale, a distinct entry would appear in your bank statement. You can check the statement.
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Old 23rd February 2012, 19:44   #137
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Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

There are two probable causses:

1. System issue
2. Somebody duplicated the card on purpose + used identity theft to stop/redirect alerts away from your mobile number

Quote:
Originally Posted by aadithsince1980 View Post
Apparently out ATM card had been used/swiped at some Swarna Hospital. He said that sometimes, when you swipe your card at some place and someone else swipes his/her card immediately after you, your card number gets copied on that person's card, thus enabling him/her to swipe their card (which has our number), leading to the amount being deducted from our account. My wife didn't understand how this could happen as the manager was very vague in his reply Anyway she demanded a solution.
Solution:
This is done by using a device known as "Skimmer"

Automated teller machine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
I don't think that a card swiping machine is capable of copying card details on another card. This is just rubbish.
It is very much possible if machine has been compromised. This is one of the reasons Debit cards are dangerous.

With debit cards, along with duplication of card strip (with compromised machine) PIN can easily be captured on hi-res video.
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Old 23rd February 2012, 19:59   #138
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Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

Quote:
Originally Posted by shipnil View Post
SBI is one bank where Anywhere Banking is still not fully accepted, so yes, they expect the person to be present in the branch. One solution is to transfer the account to Bangalore. One good thing about SBI is that the account number would not be change

Was about suggest latter. But I disagree witht he first part - it is possible to withdraw cash from another branch. But, this is (1) not encouraged by the staffers - the old sarkari mindset; and (2) not advertised.

Their computer systems do allow this. Only a few things - like changing the mobile phone number and authorising mobile banking transactions can be done only from the home branch.
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Old 24th February 2012, 09:26   #139
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Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
It is very much possible if machine has been compromised. This is one of the reasons Debit cards are dangerous.

With debit cards, along with duplication of card strip (with compromised machine) PIN can easily be captured on hi-res video.
I am aware of skimming, and I totally agree that it is technically possible to duplicate the contents of debit card by someone with malicious intent and the right hardware.

What I meant to say is that, in a normal swiping machine (which has not been compromised), the contents of one card would not get inadvertently copied to the next card swiped, as suggested by the branch manager.

Also, I agree that debit cards are dangerous. I never use debit card for any merchant transactions. I only use them at the ATM for withdrawing cash. Also, I generally try to avoid using other bank ATMs.

Rohan
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Old 29th February 2012, 12:15   #140
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Unhappy Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

Quote:
Originally Posted by aadithsince1980 View Post
Even I did not believe a word the manager said. Anyway he has promised that the money will be back in two days. I'll just keep my fingers crossed and wait. If it does not happen I'll decide on what to do next.

Besides, I work in the advertising industry and have a lot of contacts with media guys to take this matter to the media in case the situation calls for it (Which I hope does not arise).
Guys, here's an update and a sad one at that. As the manager had promised the money did not come back to my account. My wife went and met the manager again, and as he was not available, she was directed to another person who was rather rude as he stated the point saying

-The only way the money could have gone is that we must have withdrawn the money ourselves and just acting like it's gone missing!!!

-He can't help and has told us to contact customer care!

My wife got angry and walked out dejected.

Now, these SBI guys are sending us in circles. I have just called customer care and given yet another complaint! The person assured me that the money will be back in 7 working days.

Now I am totally fedup and do not know what to do.

Can you guys please help me with the exact mail/link to complain to OMBUDSMAN and how to go about the same. Please.

Thanks in advance.
Aadith

PS: The missing amount is R.S. 20,000, done in two withdrawals of 10k each from Sakaria Hospital ATM, Kalyan nagar, Bangalore on 9th Feb.
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Old 29th February 2012, 13:38   #141
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Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

Quote:
Originally Posted by aadithsince1980 View Post
Now I am totally fedup and do not know what to do.

Can you guys please help me with the exact mail/link to complain to OMBUDSMAN and how to go about the same. Please.
Nothing would be achieved by calling customer care or visiting the bank branch. All communication needs to be in written format.

Best approach is to write an email to your LHO (local head office) general manager. Use this link to get the email address of your respective LHO GM.

https://www.sbi.co.in/user.htm?actio...n&id=0,453,554

If the issue is not resolved at this level, write an email to DGM customer care (email address available in the above webpage).

If the issue is still not resolved, you would have to write to the banking ombudsman.

Rohan
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Old 29th February 2012, 14:59   #142
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Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddriver View Post
Dear friends,
The RBI verdict is out and is again in my favor!! At last i won the case in full and final settlement. Now i have to give a written acceptance to the bank regarding the verdict to get my money within one month.
Now i am planning to take back my money first than i will do the following things--
1) write to the bank for the interest @ 18% of the amount.
2) reach media and try to aware people about this procedure so that others too can get benefitted to an extent.
3) go to consumer court for the mental harrassement faced by me from last over a year and will ask for the compensation.
Your suggestions, if any?
ddriver- are you still active on this forum. Is there any further progess on the above 3 action points that you planned to take to the bank? curious to know the same.
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Old 12th March 2012, 16:10   #143
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Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

Quote:
Originally Posted by aadithsince1980 View Post
Guys, here's an update and a sad one at that. As the manager had promised the money did not come back to my account. My wife went and met the manager again, and as he was not available, she was directed to another person who was rather rude as he stated the point saying

-The only way the money could have gone is that we must have withdrawn the money ourselves and just acting like it's gone missing!!!

-He can't help and has told us to contact customer care!

My wife got angry and walked out dejected.

Now, these SBI guys are sending us in circles. I have just called customer care and given yet another complaint! The person assured me that the money will be back in 7 working days.

Now I am totally fedup and do not know what to do.


Aadith

PS: The missing amount is R.S. 20,000, done in two withdrawals of 10k each from Sakaria Hospital ATM, Kalyan nagar, Bangalore on 9th Feb.
Aadith,

Your posts have taken this thread off topic - have requested the mods to move it to a separate thread.

I would like to help - after all, I am doing the same thing everyday (literally 24*7). My signature should give you a hint !

Your issue can be explained easily - but that will raise more questions!!

Anyway, the best way to go about is like this -

a. When you submitted the complaint to your bank, they would have in turn raised the claim on the bank - say Bank X - whose ATM had used.

b. Bank X has to either settle the claim or reject it within seven working days.

c. If they reject, they have to give the reasons why it is rejected. Most probably they will inform that the transaction is successful. To prove this they will have to provide an EJ (electronic journal).

d. Your Bank (SBI) in turn will inform you that the claim cannot be settled because Bank X said that the transaction was successful.

Now what you should do is this -

Send a complaint again - stating that the money was not received at the ATM by you and your claim has to be settled. This claim must be sent to the branch where you had given the complaint earlier (mark a copy to the parent (home) branch as well as central processing centre of SBI at Belapur, Navi Mumbai). Send the complaint by e-mail, but be sure to take a print out and send it by courier. Preserve a copy. Hope you have preserved the transaction slip received from the ATM. Inform the Bank that you would like to lodge a (police) complaint and will require the CCTV footage, ATM cash balance / confirmation report & JP log. (More of this later)

Once this is done, SBI has to raise the claim again with Bank X. (This process is called pre-arbitration).

Bank X has to respond the pre-arb within 17 days. They will be required to provide the cash balance report and JP log.

Depending on the outcome, we can proceed further.

You have to bear with me, because I am working in a secure environment and no access to the net. May be I have to take some time off to keep up with this!!

More of what could have happened is explained below.

Prabhu


Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_iitr View Post
Also, I agree that debit cards are dangerous. I never use debit card for any merchant transactions. I only use them at the ATM for withdrawing cash. Also, I generally try to avoid using other bank ATMs.
Rohan
These are perils and pitfalls of technology. And as many of us are there trying to do good things, there are equal number of bad ones out there trying to exploit. Many times they are smarter than us :-(

Actually, the most secure way of using the card is in e-commerce. Both verified by visa and mastercard secure is tough to crack and the secure link ensures that data remains secure.

Any card used at ATM or POS is open to skimming - unless, it is a chip based card. Magnetic Strip (magstrip) cards - whether debit or credit - can be copied and cloned easily. The trick lies in getting the PIN. You will find that skimmed card details are used mostly in ATMs - because the crooks have managed to capture the PIN, whereas stolen cards are used mostly at POS (shops) - because the thief doesn't know the PIN - unless, of course, it so happens that you have written your PIN on the card itself!.

What could also have happened to Aadith is that, after he had entered the PIN and requested for withdrawal, the communication between the ATM and switch must have taken a longer time. (There is a transaction time out - but things and technology being what it is, nothing can be certainly said what exactly happened).

He believed that the transaction failed as the cash did not come out. Whereas, the cash could be dispensed after he had left the ATM and the next person who walked in could have reaped the bonanza.

All of you reading this and facing similar experience, please do these -

a. If you do not get cash, press the CANCEL button and wait for at least 15 - 20 seconds.

b. Don't walk away from the ATM. If possible stand inside after informing the next person what happened and observe what happens with the next card holder. Else, stand outside and keep a watch.

c. The best thing to do is NOT to attempt one more transaction. Do ONLY a balance enquiry or mini statement as the next transaction. This will help you to know what happened with your previous attempt and whether the ATM is functioning normally.

d. Ideal thing to do is go to another ATM and try to withdraw from there.

More of the scenarios, if and when I find the ATM.

Don't know how many un-lucky t-bhpians in Bangalore / Chennai / NOIDA have lost money recently - there has been a planned skimming attack at these centres. And in many of these cases the money has been withdrawn abroad!

Prabhu
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:37   #144
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Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

Quote:
Originally Posted by vrprabhu View Post
Aadith,

Your posts have taken this thread off topic - have requested the mods to move it to a separate thread.

I would like to help - after all, I am doing the same thing everyday (literally 24*7). My signature should give you a hint !

Your issue can be explained easily - but that will raise more questions!!

Anyway, the best way to go about is like this -

a. When you submitted the complaint to your bank, they would have in turn raised the claim on the bank - say Bank X - whose ATM had used.

b. Bank X has to either settle the claim or reject it within seven working days.

c. If they reject, they have to give the reasons why it is rejected. Most probably they will inform that the transaction is successful. To prove this they will have to provide an EJ (electronic journal).

d. Your Bank (SBI) in turn will inform you that the claim cannot be settled because Bank X said that the transaction was successful.

Now what you should do is this -

Send a complaint again - stating that the money was not received at the ATM by you and your claim has to be settled. This claim must be sent to the branch where you had given the complaint earlier (mark a copy to the parent (home) branch as well as central processing centre of SBI at Belapur, Navi Mumbai). Send the complaint by e-mail, but be sure to take a print out and send it by courier. Preserve a copy. Hope you have preserved the transaction slip received from the ATM. Inform the Bank that you would like to lodge a (police) complaint and will require the CCTV footage, ATM cash balance / confirmation report & JP log. (More of this later)

Once this is done, SBI has to raise the claim again with Bank X. (This process is called pre-arbitration).

Bank X has to respond the pre-arb within 17 days. They will be required to provide the cash balance report and JP log.

Depending on the outcome, we can proceed further.

You have to bear with me, because I am working in a secure environment and no access to the net. May be I have to take some time off to keep up with this!!

More of what could have happened is explained below.

Prabhu




These are perils and pitfalls of technology. And as many of us are there trying to do good things, there are equal number of bad ones out there trying to exploit. Many times they are smarter than us :-(

Actually, the most secure way of using the card is in e-commerce. Both verified by visa and mastercard secure is tough to crack and the secure link ensures that data remains secure.

Any card used at ATM or POS is open to skimming - unless, it is a chip based card. Magnetic Strip (magstrip) cards - whether debit or credit - can be copied and cloned easily. The trick lies in getting the PIN. You will find that skimmed card details are used mostly in ATMs - because the crooks have managed to capture the PIN, whereas stolen cards are used mostly at POS (shops) - because the thief doesn't know the PIN - unless, of course, it so happens that you have written your PIN on the card itself!.

What could also have happened to Aadith is that, after he had entered the PIN and requested for withdrawal, the communication between the ATM and switch must have taken a longer time. (There is a transaction time out - but things and technology being what it is, nothing can be certainly said what exactly happened).

He believed that the transaction failed as the cash did not come out. Whereas, the cash could be dispensed after he had left the ATM and the next person who walked in could have reaped the bonanza.

All of you reading this and facing similar experience, please do these -

a. If you do not get cash, press the CANCEL button and wait for at least 15 - 20 seconds.

b. Don't walk away from the ATM. If possible stand inside after informing the next person what happened and observe what happens with the next card holder. Else, stand outside and keep a watch.

c. The best thing to do is NOT to attempt one more transaction. Do ONLY a balance enquiry or mini statement as the next transaction. This will help you to know what happened with your previous attempt and whether the ATM is functioning normally.

d. Ideal thing to do is go to another ATM and try to withdraw from there.

More of the scenarios, if and when I find the ATM.

Don't know how many un-lucky t-bhpians in Bangalore / Chennai / NOIDA have lost money recently - there has been a planned skimming attack at these centres. And in many of these cases the money has been withdrawn abroad!

Prabhu




An update, I had lodged yet another complaint, more than a week back with the SBI Customer Care. Today, I called them again to follow up and they told me that my complaint has been rejected because i didn't provide them with the transaction number (The number that will reflect on the pass book, when the fraud transactions were made)

I completely lost it and fired the executive, I told him that I was not asked to provide the same in the first place! He apologised saying that it could be a mistake of the SBI executive who attended my previous complaint!

He asked me for the transaction number and said that he would lodge another complaint. He also assured me that once the transaction number is given, within 7 working days the cash will be back in my account.

I have not lodged the complaint yet as I did not have the transaction number with me when I called him. Will go home in the evening, pull out my pass book, get the number and call SBI "AGAIN" and hope for the best
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:57   #145
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Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

These sarkari companies are a pain in the neck whenever something goes wrong. I had an SBI credit card and used it without problem for nearly 5 years but one fine day I misplaced the card and even after repeated complaints didn't get my replacemen card for 2 months, so instead I thought good riddance and cancelled the card.

Sure the pvt banks have hidden charges but they are relatively very easy to deal with when anything goes wrong.
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Old 17th March 2012, 11:07   #146
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Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

Quote:
Originally Posted by aadithsince1980 View Post
An update, I had lodged yet another complaint, more than a week back with the SBI Customer Care. Today, I called them again to follow up and they told me that my complaint has been rejected because i didn't provide them with the transaction number (The number that will reflect on the pass book, when the fraud transactions were made)
A quick reply -

What is printed in the passbook varies from bank to bank. Please don't by the misconception that the details are printed in respect of fraud transactions.

Also, it is not necessary that the transaction number is required for processing your request.

It can be traced by the Bank. What is required by the bank is the ATM ID and the time of transaction (ATM ID is printed in the statement narration) - this will enable them to trace the transaction number based on the card number. As I said earlier, it is better that the transaction slip is preserved whenever there is a problem using the ATM. If you didn't get the transaction slip, mention this also. (The ATM records whether the slip printer is functional or not)

The whole system is automated and believe me it works. The bank official has rightly told that if the information is provided correctly, the case will the resolved within seven working days.

Keep your fingers crossed!


Quote:
Originally Posted by zaks View Post
These sarkari companies are a pain in the neck whenever something goes wrong.

Sure the pvt banks have hidden charges but they are relatively very easy to deal with when anything goes wrong.
Both are highly debatable.

Are you aware that SBI and Indian Bank charge the customer for (debit) card renewal fee?

And, the experience of the call centre of private banks in effectively attending to your queries / complaints varies from person to person! And, you need to have loads of patience if you want to resolve any major issue over phone!!

Last edited by vrprabhu : 17th March 2012 at 11:12. Reason: Additional details.
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Old 2nd December 2012, 19:24   #147
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Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

I am so sorry as I was not very active in last few months. As now its too late, still if needed any help, please let me know!
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Old 19th July 2013, 16:11   #148
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Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

I have an account with ICICI bank for over 10 years now.
Strangely I received a mail from the bank 2 days ago where it mentioned that some wrong credit took place in my account and I owe them that money and to recover the same, they have marked it as account under lien.
On checking all entried in detail I found that at the end of June there was a wrong debit in my account and in July 1st week it was credited back. Both pertain LIC NEFT transaction.
I immediately called up the branch manager and clarified it. He seemed convinced and assured me that the comment would be removed.
Two days passed since then and the comment is still there. However the manager just now on calling him informed that same would be removed by evening. I am ot convinced as he had said same thing yesterday as well.

I need advice on 2 issues.
1. How can a third party debit / credit from my account through NEFT. On both the date of entries, I was not in India. Whom to inform in ICICI.

2. Will this account under lien remark have any impact on my credit rating or any other way. Also how can I protest in written against ICICI for unilaterally marking my account under lien prior informing me.

I yet haven't protested in writing. On mailing the customercare@icicibank.com I am getting a message that I need to sumit the same by logging in. I am not able find the menu from webpage.

Request some good advices from experts here.

Mods: Pls shift to appropriate thread if this one is not so.

Thanks.
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Old 11th February 2015, 13:05   #149
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Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

Just saw this thread while searching for something else and I have 2 recent happenings to pen down.

- Bank : SBI, Sometime back when I checked my online a/c I found a remittance of 3.5lakhs from the bank on the same day, not from any personal account, if I remember correctly, in the description it was there, some loan or something related. Since this is a false transaction, to make it in writing, I transferred the entire amount to another a/c and waited for their call. I was expecting a call within 1 or 2 hours, atleast before EOD. But I got the call after 2 days from the branch manager about their mistake and he was literally pleading to return the money. But I asked the manager to call me back from the Bank's landline number and send a mail including all the details from the official branch mailid, which I verified later, including the amount and the a/c to which the amout has to be transferred. Once I got everything in writing I transferred the amount back. Poor guy, but now after reading all these grievances I feel I would have transferred the amount to these victims instead of returning to the bank. Also, got to think about the same Manager's response if I was at the other side.

- HDFC ATM, Commercial street, Bangalore : The ATM m/c keeps the card till the transaction is complete and asks for an "Exit" to give the card back or "Continue" for another transaction. To my surprise, I was greeted with this screen which was left by the previous user. Note : He was with a kid and ON A CALL. Since that guy was still on the call standing outside, to make him embarassed infront of all, I asked him "how much money should I take". I cancelled the next transaction and gave the card back and told him to accept the balance in his a/c as a gift for his child. His face expressions were worthwhile to watch for, but I doubt the call was still ON!!! Please accept the fact that humans are not designed to do foolproof MultiTasking.

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 11th February 2015 at 13:09.
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