Go Back   Team-BHP > Around the Corner > Shifting gears


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 1st October 2010, 11:31   #106
BHPian
 
ddriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Jaipur
Posts: 63
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

i understand you point. But i guess if i go to judiciary court and take help of lawyer than it would be another expenditure towards getting my 36,000 rs. Also i am bit skeptical as in normal courts " justice delayed is justice denied".
I guess i will enquire about the consumer court and see if i can put up my case there as it will be cost effective in getting the money back.
I dont want to put myself in such a situation where i loose more money in order to get my amount. I hope you are understanding my point too!!
But really disguisting to see how much one has to fight for the right cause.
ddriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th October 2010, 10:23   #107
BHPian
 
ddriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Jaipur
Posts: 63
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

hi friends,
i just got the letter from the Dy. Governor, RBI Mumbai office to state my views against the appeal made by the PNB against the decision of the banking ombudsman. any suggestions of yours which can help me to put my foot forward. i am attaching the statements and points made by the PNB.
[ATTACH][ATTACH][ATTACH]Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won-pnb4.jpg[/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH]
Attached Thumbnails
Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won-pnb1.jpg  

Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won-pnb2.jpg  

Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won-pnb3.jpg  

ddriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th October 2010, 11:24   #108
Senior - BHPian
 
NetfreakBombay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,375
Thanked: 315 Times
Default

There are two aspects here:

1. Internet userid/password was compromised. Bank is not responsible for this.
2. Letter states : "Bank made reasonable efforts to freeze the account". As per this thread, this does not seems to be the case. And if this statement can be shown to be incorrect, and further actions can be based on it.
NetfreakBombay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th October 2010, 11:54   #109
BHPian
 
ddriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Jaipur
Posts: 63
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
There are two aspects here:

1. Internet userid/password was compromised. Bank is not responsible for this.
2. Letter states : "Bank made reasonable efforts to freeze the account". As per this thread, this does not seems to be the case. And if this statement can be shown to be incorrect, and further actions can be based on it.
Yes friend i also point out some loopholes in their statement provided--
2 point-- as they stated i took all the safety measures to use online banking and never used any other computer whatsoever.
3 point-- i never logged in any dubious site whatsoever, that is there assumption but not a fact.
5th point--claiming that bank does not have any hand and they have took every measure is a bogus claim without having any substantial evidence with regard to incident happened in 2009 and one has to look into what were the safety measures they had at that time.
7 point-- they are claiming that they have sms facility for the online banking, that was false with regard to my case as there was no such facility in 2009 when this incident occurs.
further they stated that they freeze the account on 9th dec,2009 while i gave the information regarding my unauthorised withdrawl on 3rd dec itself, so why they took so long in freezing the account. which means the money was lying with the bank and they have not taken proper measures and in turn is a deficiency of service.
also if you see closely the amount withdrawn on 9th dec is Rs 45000/- in one day. how is it possible that such a huge amount has been withdrawn while it is clearly stated on their site that the beneficiary account was under relaxed KYC norms where no cheque book is issued, so the question of issuing ATM creates a big security lapse.
I am bit susceptible as to how the RBI take this case. Even winning the case does not giving any relaxation to me from the banking ombudsman.
ddriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th October 2010, 12:16   #110
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Kochi
Posts: 2,147
Thanked: 142 Times
Default

I guress first few pages of the scan have not been attached.

Stress on the following:-

From what I see, the bank is not clear on the KYC norms of the other account. The other account holder's name has not been mentioned anywhere. Even assuming that the complainant (you) were negligent in protecting his password, the bank had the opportunity to prevent fraudulent withdrawal if it had properly followed the KYC norms and other norms, including denial of ATM and net banking to a no-frills / zero balance a/c.

There is a delay of six months in filing the FIR, even by bank's admission.

Even after filing FIR, the bank is taking care to not disclose the name of the other beneficiary from the complainant; the complainant has no means of seeking alternate remedy from the fraudster.

Edit:- I mssed the last line in the last pic; the name is there; I suggest you file file a case with the police in this matter.

Last edited by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR : 26th October 2010 at 12:22.
BaCkSeAtDrIVeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th October 2010, 12:22   #111
BHPian
 
ddriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Jaipur
Posts: 63
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
I guress first few pages of the scan have not been attached.

Stress on the following:-

From what I see, the bank is not clear on the KYC norms of the other account. The other account holder's name has not been mentioned anywhere. Even assuming that the complainant (you) were negligent in protecting his password, the bank had the opportunity to prevent fraudulent withdrawal if it had properly followed the KYC norms and other norms, including denial of ATM and net banking to a no-frills / zero balance a/c.

There is a delay of six months in filing the FIR, even by bank's admission.

Even after filing FIR, the bank is taking care to not disclose the name of the other beneficiary from the complainant; the complainant has no means of seeking alternate remedy from the fraudster.
hi backseatdriver, the portion which is hidden is the rbi seal and it is complete in all respect.
i gave my points on which i will stand and fight for my case. please let me know on what points seeing my observation that i can make effective letter for the Dy. governor as i guess this is the last resort to prove my point and i guess after submitting my reply the governor will take decision.
ddriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th October 2010, 11:17   #112
BHPian
 
vrprabhu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Poona
Posts: 844
Thanked: 329 Times
Default First impressions -

First of all, what is uploaded here is the submission by PNB before the BO. So, BO is calling for your 'say' in this issue. Bear this mind while drafting your reply to BO.

Second, KYC etc. is not the crux of the issue - you are being misled. Because, the fact is (a) money from your account was fraudulently withdrawn; and (b) Bank took its own time to act upon your complaint, while you had quickly acted giving the Bank enough time to stop the money being withdrawn. This shows your alertness and the Bank's complacency.

IMHO, this is what has to be stressed again and again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddriver View Post
2 point-- as they stated i took all the safety measures to use online banking and never used any other computer whatsoever.
3 point-- i never logged in any dubious site whatsoever, that is there assumption but not a fact.
5th point--claiming that bank does not have any hand and they have took every measure is a bogus claim without having any substantial evidence with regard to incident happened in 2009 and one has to look into what were the safety measures they had at that time.
7 point-- they are claiming that they have sms facility for the online banking, that was false with regard to my case as there was no such facility in 2009 when this incident occurs.
further they stated that they freeze the account on 9th dec,2009 while i gave the information regarding my unauthorised withdrawl on 3rd dec itself, so why they took so long in freezing the account. which means the money was lying with the bank and they have not taken proper measures and in turn is a deficiency of service.
also if you see closely the amount withdrawn on 9th dec is Rs 45000/- in one day. how is it possible that such a huge amount has been withdrawn while it is clearly stated on their site that the beneficiary account was under relaxed KYC norms where no cheque book is issued, so the question of issuing ATM creates a big security lapse.
2nd and 3rd point needs to be re-emphasised - that is, you took proper precaution at all times and are very much aware of what is going on.

5th point - please don't get into 'tu tu mein mein' in your reply. Hindsight, as they say, is an exact science. So, there is no point in saying this or that was lacking / not in place. You simply stress that you have followed all the precautions / guidelines issued by the Bank.

7th point - Bank has clearly erred, if you can substantiate that this facility was not provided.

Freezing of the account, KYC, etc. - already stated above.

From what I infer, PNB is trying to cover up its lapses by going into an lengthy appeal, and trying to bring in facts which are not relevant to your case. You can subtly point this out in your reply.

BTW, RBI will not blindly accept the Bank's say. Bear in mind that RBI is not a commercial bank - it is a regulator of banks. And, they have seen plenty of cases. PNB is simply trying to shore up / strengthen its case by citing other cases.

To take on the might of PNB is a difficult task - so you have to proceed one step a time. Always stress only this - you are a normal customer of the Bank, who has always followed the rules / guidelines. The Bank, on the other hand, did not heed to the genuine complaint and did not act in time, due to which you are aggrieved by loss of funds.
vrprabhu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th October 2010, 12:04   #113
BHPian
 
ddriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Jaipur
Posts: 63
Thanked: 18 Times
Default

Thanks a lot for your inputs @Netfreakbombay,Backseatdriver and Vrprabhu. Lets see how i draft the points and what result it will generate in time to come.
ddriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2011, 11:10   #114
BHPian
 
ddriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Jaipur
Posts: 63
Thanked: 18 Times
Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

Dear friends,
The RBI verdict is out and is again in my favor!! At last i won the case in full and final settlement. Now i have to give a written acceptance to the bank regarding the verdict to get my money within one month.
Now i am planning to take back my money first than i will do the following things--
1) write to the bank for the interest @ 18% of the amount.
2) reach media and try to aware people about this procedure so that others too can get benefitted to an extent.
3) go to consumer court for the mental harrassement faced by me from last over a year and will ask for the compensation.
Your suggestions, if any?
ddriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2011, 11:22   #115
BHPian
 
Chipz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Trivandrum, Thrissur
Posts: 159
Thanked: 4 Times
Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

Congrats on the verdict ddriver. It is good to have our hard-earned money back. I think you should go to consumer court and file a complaint. nowadays when most transaction are done via internet, it is a must for all to understand these loopholes to prevent such happenings. Can you explain the important points that helped to win the case. I think the most imp point was their laxity in taking up the issue on time.
Chipz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2011, 12:08   #116
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Kochi
Posts: 2,147
Thanked: 142 Times
Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddriver View Post
Your suggestions, if any?
Switch to Free/Open Source software (preferably, your entire operating system) for reading mails.

Edit:- in other words, prevention is better than cure.

Last edited by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR : 2nd January 2011 at 12:12.
BaCkSeAtDrIVeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2011, 17:37   #117
Senior - BHPian
 
NetfreakBombay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,375
Thanked: 315 Times
Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
Switch to Free/Open Source software (preferably, your entire operating system) for reading mails.

Edit:- in other words, prevention is better than cure.
That does not help that much. Most such exploits (E.g. Fishing) piggyback on legitimate sites and do not rely on compromising user's OS at all.

A penetration tests on a large organization in India revealed that even 4% of IT staff clicked on phishing emails and entered bank's username/password. Overall penetration rate was around 28%.

Important :

Never click on any link on emails. Always type URL of bank's website in address bar. And Always use https:// address (Instead of http://).
NetfreakBombay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2011, 18:52   #118
BHPian
 
ddriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Jaipur
Posts: 63
Thanked: 18 Times
Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

Quote:
Can you explain the important points that helped to win the case. I think the most imp point was their laxity in taking up the issue on time.
The verdict given on following grounds--
1 The complainant had reported the matter to the bank on 3rd dec, requresting to freeze the a/c of the beneficiary. This was not done by the bank allowing the fraudster to withdraw the amount on 9th Dec.
2 The bank claims that the introducer of the beneficiary was M/s Texline Impex Pvt. Ltd. having a Cash credit account with the bank. Whereas the BO has found that the letter of introduction was not genuine.
3 The transaction resulted in undue enrichment of the beneficiary at the cost of the unsuspecting customer.
4 The transfer has taken place to an account with PNB only, which was opened without complying with KYC norms.
5 They found serious faults with KYC norms compliance in this a/c. Thus there was inaction on the part of the bank after the complaint was made.

so i guess, very wisely they took the decision as these are all the points which i also thought were the loopholes and advantage to me.
ddriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2011, 21:58   #119
Senior - BHPian
 
Spitfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka
Posts: 3,240
Thanked: 600 Times
Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

Congrats ddriver, In these days of fast eroding trust in all sections of life, yours is a beacon of hope.
Spitfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2011, 11:40   #120
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lucknow
Posts: 169
Thanked: 12 Times
Default Re: Fraud Transfer of Money from my Salary Account of PNB: Fought case & won

Another similar case of PNB A/C holder reported in today's Times of India.

Article Window
rishab.k is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Insurance from Bharti Axa - 'Caveat Emptor'. Edit: Fought the case at Ombudsman and won! panky12345 Indian Car Loans & Insurance 6 23rd May 2016 17:25
Metro Ford suck!! They totalled my Fiesta while testing EDIT: WON the case in court!! shivasuma Indian Car Dealerships 312 6th August 2013 14:25
Anybody Lost Money in The Frontier Group Fraud?? princezahed Shifting gears 0 22nd February 2009 17:33
Need help: Money transfer to UK Blue_V Shifting gears 6 23rd November 2008 19:57
The value for money SX4 now even more value for money-I map navigator free ram_hyundai The Indian Car Scene 20 23rd October 2008 11:23


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 04:14.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks