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Old 31st August 2005, 10:42   #1
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Default Flood: Mumbai vs New Orleans OR samaritans vs looters

Attention India-bashers and Ameri-fans,

This is what happens when New Orleans gets flooded, LOOTING everywhere...!
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...na_new_orleans

Those who are uninitiated or with a real short memory, look at what had happend in Mumbai in TBHPian words, just for comparison:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showth...highlight=july (26th July, 2005 - Worst we've seen)

Please note that-while posting this- I am not forgetting those who perished in the Katrina floods....
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Old 31st August 2005, 12:31   #2
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Hmmm. For all its fury, I do not think Katrina caused half as much pain and loss as Mumbai's flood. :( When you are suffering, it pays to help others. That being said if there was any way of looting people in Mumbai, it would have happened. Don't flame me for saying that. It is human nature. There were instances of women being harrassed and stray cases of robberies. And if the scale of the tragedy had been so huge maybe stories of looting would have made it to the front page.

I am not saying that Mumbaikars are bad; I am one of them now too. But Mumbaikars being good does not mean we over look what ever is wrong with our country.
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Old 31st August 2005, 14:50   #3
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What are you talking about man. Due to katrina the entire town had to be evacualted with many localities turned unlivable for months. They are talking about months of rehablitation.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...ow/1214823.cms
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Old 31st August 2005, 15:06   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
What are you talking about man. Due to katrina the entire town had to be evacualted with many localities turned unlivable for months. They are talking about months of rehablitation.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...ow/1214823.cms
How many died? How many had to face the storm alone while the government just twiddled it's thumbs?
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Old 31st August 2005, 15:31   #5
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55 dead. The govt ordered evacuation. There is not much you can do in a hurricane. The people who could not evacuate took shelter in superdome. Even concrete buildings collapsed.
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Old 31st August 2005, 15:39   #6
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Nothing compared to Mumbai though. And it was not even a storm. :(
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Old 31st August 2005, 15:48   #7
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I suggest you read this
http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?s...0&tid=99&tid=4
What happened in Mumbai was partly due to govt apathy. Whats happened in New Orleans has lead to oil prices go above 70$/barrel. Domestic price will go up by 6rs approx. Also major part of the city has been rendered uninhabitable for few months! Imagine entire Bandra becoming uninhabitable for 3 months.
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Old 31st August 2005, 16:00   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
I suggest you read this
http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?s...0&tid=99&tid=4
What happened in Mumbai was partly due to govt apathy. Whats happened in New Orleans has lead to oil prices go above 70$/barrel. Domestic price will go up by 6rs approx. Also major part of the city has been rendered uninhabitable for few months! Imagine entire Bandra becoming uninhabitable for 3 months.

@tsk, I am not flaming you.
- Over a 1000 mm rainfall was recorded in Mumbai within 24 hours, and that triggered the deluge. There was no early warning. It was a very rare natural calamity.
- Oil prices went up because the storm struck the offshore oil platforms, and not due to the floods in the city region.
- By US standards, Mumbai is uninhabitable, before and after the floods.

Last edited by sandeepmdas : 31st August 2005 at 16:01.
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Old 31st August 2005, 16:15   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typeOnegative
Nothing compared to Mumbai though. And it was not even a storm. :(
What are you saying dude? This was a level 5 Hurricane, though downgraded to level 4 when it made landfall, it was nearly 450 miles wide. I have lived through Hurricane Floyd when it hit New Jersey, although by then it was downgraded to tropical storm. That was the first time I saw rain fall horizontally. My apartment came very close to being flooded, but we escaped unharmed.

USA suffers nature fury much more than India, I can't imagine that death toll in India if we had the kind of Twisters and Hurricanes of USA. Because of their superior infrastructure and disaster management, their relative human loss is minimal. But the damage to buildings and cars and infrastructure is usually much greater.
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Old 31st August 2005, 16:18   #10
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TSK, Sandeep was making the point that the public attitude in the US is to loot once there is a problem like what we saw in New Orleans. Which is true.

My point was that looting is human nature and would happen anywhere. The only reason it did not happen in Mumbai was because the people most expected to loot in times of trouble were being troubled too. The people who actually do the looting (1 word, starts with p, ends with s, has 'cian' in it) were home safe and sound and dry.

If Mumbai had been evacuated as New Orleans had been then I bet lots of us here would have had to kiss our possessions good bye. In this light I cannot see how your inputs are contributing to the discussion.
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Old 31st August 2005, 16:19   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai
What are you saying dude?
I meant Mumbai did not face a storm. Sorry for causing the confusion. Just imagine if Mumbai got hit by one of those monsters.
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Old 31st August 2005, 21:41   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai
USA suffers nature fury much more than India, I can't imagine that death toll in India if we had the kind of Twisters and Hurricanes of USA. Because of their superior infrastructure and disaster management, their relative human loss is minimal. But the damage to buildings and cars and infrastructure is usually much greater.
You said it samurai - and guys, FYI, there was looting in mumbai - only unreported.

remember, the rumour that a dam had burst and it had people running helter skelter from their homes in the kurla, sakinaka area? that was started so that robbers could easily loot the area. my workshop in kurla - the day after the flood, the lock was broken and there were signs of obvious forced entry.

just that, in the worst affected areas - it was typically very poor neighbourhoods, so not much could have been looted anyways.

what needs to be noted is that the us authorities moved with precision, speed and responsibility throughout - making people evacuate on time, early warning systems, complete news coverage...communications all around even though the affected areas were down -

yes - and do read up on the category 5 rating for a natural disaster - and then think what would have happened in mumbai - or for that matter any state in india.

the government reports 500 people died in mumbai - i say crap! since the areas affected were mostly slums and people of the lower strata, it's easy to loose count...i know some ngo worker who says more than those numbers died in kurla- sakinaka area alone!
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Old 1st September 2005, 11:13   #13
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Just to let you guys know, the water levels at New Orleans has not gone down and the mayor has stated that thousands of bodies may be recovered when the water goes down and the debris are cleared. Its a very harsh natural calamity, something much more than what happened in Mumbai. 80 % of New Orleans was under 20 feet water. Its nothing comparable to what happened to Mumbai. The only difference is that the government officials are much much more responsible out here and you can see that with the fact that the damage could have been a lot more if the evacuation measures would not have been taken in time. Hats Off to the disaster management authoritries. They evacuated the city and shifted as many as 25,000 people to the Superdome in less than half a day, can you just imagine that happening anywhere in India?

Also the property damage is worth $25 billion. Most Indian babus will need their calculators to convert that into INR.

Don't talk about this happening in Mumbai at similar levels. It would have been simply wiped off the map in more practical terms and most of us would be posting on this thread in heaven/hell abode.

But to me both are severe blows to human kind from the Nature Gods.
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Old 1st September 2005, 11:36   #14
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This thread was started by me on yesterday and at that time I have little idea about the magnitude of this tragedy. I am a bit ashamed by this immature action.

(Mods)kindly lock this thread OR (tbhpians) please use this thread only for posting condolences.
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Old 1st September 2005, 12:12   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmdas
@tsk, I am not flaming you.
- Over a 1000 mm rainfall was recorded in Mumbai within 24 hours, and that triggered the deluge. There was no early warning. It was a very rare natural calamity.
- By US standards, Mumbai is uninhabitable, before and after the floods.
there was a warning just that no one in the govt noticed it

The warning....it had been raining the whole of monday night in the Badlapur area. by midnight monday badlapur had water 10 feet deep and rising!!!!

Not much could have been done to help Badlapur and the areas surrounding the Ulhas river at this stage but had the govt not been sleeping about 50% of mumbai's woes could have been averted.
a) people could have been warned to stay home and maybe stock essentials
b) essentials and medicines could have been rushed before the deluge hit numbai city
c) REL could have been warned to do what they cat to prtect their transformers in the 12 hours they had (12 midnight monday to 12 noon tuesday).
d) emergency serivces could have been activated to evacuate low lying areas, slums.
e) railway lines could have been shored up in fragile locations.
and more...
fact is mumbai's govt was caught napping and it's people suffered. As long as we live with "Vote Bank Politics" we will continue to suffer.

Thanks to Mumbai's natual formation you dont need a sophisticated radar or early warning system (it does help but you dont need it). You need a govt that is awake, responsible, and cares. Mumabi's, Maharashtra's and India's govt DOES NOT. What they do care about is their Swiss bank accounts (incl those in BVI, Marshall and Cook islands and Aruba). About 20,000 of the 50,000 indian coporations (read as holding companies) registered in Mauritius are connected to politicians. Their cash assets aborad according to one esitimate (EIU - Economist Intelligence Unit) exceeds 100bn. USD. and that was 10 years ago.

Anyone ever ask how and why politicians sons are educated at Harvard, MIT, LSE, etc...and how they manage to drive BMWs and Ferraris.

Last edited by navin : 1st September 2005 at 12:20.
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