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Old 12th January 2010, 14:09   #16
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Absolutely horrifying but somehow I was not amused.

I feel really lucky to refuse a very good offer from one of the big Infra companies in Dubai called Damac Holdings.

Now I guess the company is down in the dumps following the massive meltdown.
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Old 12th January 2010, 14:39   #17
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Dunno how much truth in that article but it sounds horrible. specially the slaves and environment bit ....
Think there is some reality in this report cause a similar program was shown on NDTV 24*7.
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Old 12th January 2010, 14:54   #18
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Some more disturbing videos:







Edit: Another, Sonapur is shown here



The last video was uploaded sometime in 2007 and it ends with a hope that workers life may be now improved. The preceding vidoes are shot in 2009. Nothings changed....

Last edited by Spitfire : 12th January 2010 at 15:11.
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Old 12th January 2010, 15:16   #19
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The article is an unbiased, realistic view of life in Dubai. For such a relatively small population, the emirate has a woeful human rights record.

The demographic among labourers is gradually changing. The construction industry (or what is left of it) prefer to bring in Nepali or Bangladeshi labourers, as the Indian Consul in the UAE has been flexing its muscle lately to tackle this issue, adequately backed by the Indian Overseas Ministry at home.

Several bits of the article caught my eye. I shall quote an American expat in verbatim. ''All the people who couldn't succeed in their own countries end up here, and suddenly they're rich and promoted way above their abilities and bragging about how great they are. I've never met so many incompetent people in such senior positions anywhere in the world''.

The above is applicable for most western and arab expats settled in UAE. This is a country where your nationality, passport, mother tongue and colour of skin determine not only your salary, but also your 'place' in the social heirachy - irrespective of your qualification, experience and skill. Of course, hard cash and 'influence' will send you a few notches higher in the status ladder.

Another instance where a British woman goes on to narrate an incident where her friend ran over an Indian labourer with her vehicle, and how much trouble she had to go through with the authorities! She immediately (and conveniently) juxtaposes that onto the social hierarchical system and where she perceives Indians stand in the scheme of things vis-a-vis arabs and westerners!

Racism is not just out in the open, but an integral and convenient part of the system.
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Old 12th January 2010, 15:29   #20
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Originally Posted by lurker View Post
aaggoswami boss: when you speak about Dubai, you speak about Dubai. Don't clutter each and every topic by bringing India into it and then making some skewed comparison depending upon your mood on the day. (I am not referring to you in each case but somebody almost always has to do an 'India comparison' in any bad incident anywhere in the world)

there may be some defects in India, and everyone is well aware of it. Your gas connection is managed by corrupt folks. Tough luck. Mine is not. I have it better in that regard. But does that make India perfect. No.

No country in the world is perfect. Every place has to make some compromises to survive.

But is Dubai more imperfect than India. Yes.
Its not mood of the day, Lurker.
If we are talking about Human values, we know the current state of human value in India. I think we do have another thread running about a cop killing and others watching. IIRC, he was a cop who had served in the team created to catch Verrappan. Street experience is full of our thinking levels and attitude.

Atleast they have tried to bring Dubai up. And what are we able to create ? May be a Sea Link that too after 20 years of such a proposal. I read in TOI today that they are also planning to build one more complex 1400m high. Not sure about accurcy of news.

My point is simple that we also do not have human values. There are many incidences like flood in Bihar due to an innocent river called Kosi. Kids were picked up from there and brought to Mumbai and other cities. Caste system was there even during rescue efforts. Kosi is not sorrow of Bihar. A british officer was not able to extract out tax from then rich region and hence called the river Sorrow of Bihar. People ate money that was to be used to repairs. The work had to be done by Bihar government and fuding for the same is to be done by Central government.
You call this human value ?

So what if cases are in court ? They are rather eating time and money. I am trying to say is that we are not too different from Dubai when it comes to human values. Some class of people suffer there and in India too that happens.

Yes, there are positives in India, many. The biggest positive is social life. But Dubai also has positive points.
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Old 12th January 2010, 15:40   #21
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
If we are talking about Human values, we know the current state of human value in India. I think we do have another thread running about a cop killing and others watching. IIRC, he was a cop who had served in the team created to catch Verrappan. Street experience is full of our thinking levels and attitude.
Way OT. We have other threads discussing specific issues in India. Why confuse both?
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Old 12th January 2010, 15:46   #22
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OT again: @aaggoswami

10 years from now when you have that much more experience and seen that much more of the world. You will look back at your posts on here and on other threads and feel...well I will leave it for you to experience it then.
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Old 12th January 2010, 16:05   #23
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
I am trying to say is that we are not too different from Dubai when it comes to human values.
This is a statement which is very wrong. Just my opinion.

I've personally heard horror stories of workers in Dubai from some of the people in my village, who had been to Dubai to work there. They all were poor and went to such places in search of some work to support their family back in India. Of course some of them made some money and are living a better life now, but they had the worst chapter of their life there.
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Old 12th January 2010, 16:13   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaserQ View Post
Several bits of the article caught my eye. I shall quote an American expat in verbatim. ''All the people who couldn't succeed in their own countries end up here, and suddenly they're rich and promoted way above their abilities and bragging about how great they are. I've never met so many incompetent people in such senior positions anywhere in the world''.
Exactly what i had felt as well. Here is an example from life:

My dad who had been working with his company ever since he started his stint in Dubai (over 20 years ago at that point of time), was highly revered among the staff and his efforts were also appreciated by his employer who was an old man. On the occassions when he planned on quitting the company and moving on to another firm, the employer said, "You leave, and i will shut down this company. Without you here, this means nothing to me".

Since the employer was a good man, my dad stuck with the company. He was also given access to the employer's Land Cruiser and earlier Pajero when the old man went on holiday, showing how much he trusted my dad. Our family was also invited to their house everytime during Eid, and all was well.

One day, the old man passed away, and the company passed on to his son. This guy belonged to the kind of Emirati as mentioned in the article, the kinds who enjoyed the money they made, and the luxuries they enjoyed, however it was that it came to them.

He felt for the company to reign under his control and to prevent the Indians, Pakis and Bangladeshis from taking over, he needed to introduce Arabs into the company. He brought in a battalion of Egyptians and also had the nerve to put a totally undeserving one to whom my dad had to report to. This moron knew nothing about the job he was supposed to perform, and all he indulged in was politics.

Quite a few of the old staff were sacked, my dad was also on the verge of it, but the old man's wife said there was no way she would allow my dad being asked to leave the firm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaserQ View Post
Racism is not just out in the open, but an integral and convenient part of the system.
Experience, wisdom, knowledge etc mean nothing to the new breed of Emiratis. Anything for the money, where human rights take a backseat.
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Old 12th January 2010, 16:17   #25
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Originally Posted by MaserQ View Post
Way OT. We have other threads discussing specific issues in India. Why confuse both?
+1 to that. This thread is not about human values but "The Dark Side of Dubai". Check out the title

-Pallavi
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Old 12th January 2010, 16:45   #26
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
OT again: @aaggoswami

10 years from now when you have that much more experience and seen that much more of the world. You will look back at your posts on here and on other threads and feel...well I will leave it for you to experience it then.
Seriously OT @aaggoswami. I don't understand why someone needs to vent his frustrations when a serious discussion is going on and talk about all unnecessary and irrelevant things . And very nicely said @ Spitfire
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Old 12th January 2010, 20:59   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaserQ View Post
The article is an unbiased, realistic view of life in Dubai. For such a relatively small population, the emirate has a woeful human rights record.

The demographic among labourers is gradually changing. The construction industry (or what is left of it) prefer to bring in Nepali or Bangladeshi labourers, as the Indian Consul in the UAE has been flexing its muscle lately to tackle this issue, adequately backed by the Indian Overseas Ministry at home.

Several bits of the article caught my eye. I shall quote an American expat in verbatim. ''All the people who couldn't succeed in their own countries end up here, and suddenly they're rich and promoted way above their abilities and bragging about how great they are. I've never met so many incompetent people in such senior positions anywhere in the world''.

The above is applicable for most western and arab expats settled in UAE. This is a country where your nationality, passport, mother tongue and colour of skin determine not only your salary, but also your 'place' in the social heirachy - irrespective of your qualification, experience and skill. Of course, hard cash and 'influence' will send you a few notches higher in the status ladder.

Another instance where a British woman goes on to narrate an incident where her friend ran over an Indian labourer with her vehicle, and how much trouble she had to go through with the authorities! She immediately (and conveniently) juxtaposes that onto the social hierarchical system and where she perceives Indians stand in the scheme of things vis-a-vis arabs and westerners!

Racism is not just out in the open, but an integral and convenient part of the system.
yeah when that lady said that i was shocked. I have barely expierenced Dubai; my expierence is just of the airport and i noticed that it was just one big shopping mall with the airport aspect as an afterthought . Everything led into a store or an eatery and such. Also the place was just dripping in "gold". But i dunno, i mean Emirates as an Airline is wonderful, i didnt know the country had such a dark side to it.
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Old 12th January 2010, 21:25   #28
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Originally Posted by hiren.mistry View Post

Well, the thing about Dubai is its all fake, all man made. But I am still in awe of what they have made out of the dessert and that too in a very short time frame.
amazed, yes, disgusted at shameless display of wealth, yes!
when came to know that it's based on credit, even more disgusted.

I am actually relieved to see that the madness has stopped (with due respect and sympathy to those who lost their jobs), thanks to recession.
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Old 12th January 2010, 21:40   #29
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Its sad to see people labour treated as cattle class there or is it worse ? But, I have never heard s/w guys treated like this from anyone who has worked or still working.
I have heard pleasant stories which amaze me of their guest culture and warmth.

But will people stop going there ? Well the chances are very good once the economy bounces back, if ever it does.
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Old 12th January 2010, 22:11   #30
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Even when I was a kid, stopping over at Dubai when flying from Nigeria for the holidays, I remember being freaked out. Probably because of the people in all the flowing beards and gowns but I remember my mom not liking Dubai either. She said it seemed too fake!. And that followed me too, though I did get some offers to work there, I never could bring myself to go there and work. Call me what you will - but I never wanted to work in a place like that and I have heard a lot of stories.

But I got a totally different viewpoint from my wife and parents-in-law. Wifey was born and brought up there and my parents-in-law were there for decades before coming back to India. My m-i-l is still brought to tears when she talks about Dubai and the life they had there. F-i-l was a banker in Dubai and they had a good life. 3 cars in the house - a Landrover and a Merc and something else. And all the booze and food stuffs that you ever needed. Good house, great roads. And they still have some great pics of them riding out to the Wadi, the parties they had and the friends they had. Even when I tell them that we had a wonderful 7 years in Nigeria (in the 80's - though there was no electricity even, in one place that we lived in) they cut me short saying that life in Dubai was different. And that they had all the creature comforts and more than needed. Don't have the heart to tell them that there is so much behind the facade that is Dubai.
I'd actually read this article many months back and forwarded this to my wife. Though she was saddened by it, she realised many things but thinks that this is all a recent change in Dubai and not something that has been there from the beginning.

Just my point of view, but somehow working in the Middle East makes me think of a bird in a golden cage. Apologies if I've hurt anyones feelings.
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