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Old 10th February 2010, 15:04   #1
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Lightbulb An idea born out of my mistake - Thanks to an unknown lady, her 2 children & my Son

This is an idea that was born out of my mistake & I need to thank an unknown lady & 2 of her children who were on a scooty pep & my dear son.

The other day after crossing Anna Nagar main circle (roundtanna), I saw this lady along with her two children in the back snailing on a pink scooty blocking my car entering from the right most lane. As usual I thought I’ll teach her a lesson, but then the very thought of TBHP sticker on the rear of my car changed my mind. I overtook (squeeze through) the pep but didn’t give a cut or anything; however it was very close though. Just after crossing, I could see her ride on the left lane through my RVM. After a KM or so (nr Thirumangalam junction), I could see through the window that those two children & this lady were yelling at me. I rolled down the window & started with verbal showers (no abuse). They were complaining that I was cutting through them, although I knew I wasn’t, anyway to cut the long story short, the lady said she will give a complaint to the police for which I replied, I will be happy to get away with a fine of Rs 500 or so. But soon I realized what I’ve been doing is stupid & rolled up the window & that was it.
  • But after getting home, I was angry upon myself as why I didn’t have any control on myself & left my cool. That one sentence of mine “fine of 500” as a casual word had a big impact on me.
  • What if some had dented my car? He could get away with Rs 500 or Rs 1000 of fine right?
  • So why not increase the fine for 1000 Rs for not stopping before stop line, 2000 for parking vehicle on no parking zone, 5000 for rash & negligence driving. But then that will serve as a boon for few cops to make easy money; so no manual involvement.
  • So how about camera’s monitoring 24 hours; that’s already in place (atleast here in Chennai) but the violators are monitored only in certain areas?
  • Why not other areas? Because, there’re no sufficient cops to fulfill the needs
  • So why not hand over the work to someone else who can do it? It’s hard because, there should be some training, empowerment, most importantly they shouldn’t be corrupt & all the more there will be no difference between traffic constables & them. All the more, money, huge money is involved, this very idea scrap it off immediately!!!
  • How about cops sending the images of traffic violators that is monitored at control room to some place in Delhi where they don’t have control?
Voila!!! I got an idea for a system to work & I’m penning it down here…

Components of the system
Radio Camera (RC) – This is a camera to take pictures & videos (with sound) of the scene of accident or traffic violation with the geographical coordinates. The technology of this camera is such that it has a memory card to store pictures & videos momentarily. It relies upon the nearest mobile tower to send these pictures & videos only to a central storage system in the country & once the picture or video capturing is completed the image/video is deleted from the memory card permanently. The design of the camera must be such that it should be irreparable & completely concealed because this is the core of the entire system & must be foolproof & should be nearly tamper proof.

Central Storage System (CSS) – This is a centrally located storage server in the country where the images/videos are delivered & a team of qualified people or cops approves the scene of violation for further processing. The scene of violation is then passed on to the respective state’s traffic violation counter (TVC) for sending notification to the owner of the vehicle to collect the fine.

Traffic Violation Counter (TVC) – These are special counters, setup at only very important districts in a state but certainly not to the extent of one per district. (Eg. A state like TN could have this located at Chennai, Trichy, Madurai, Kanyakumari, Coimbatore, Krishnagiri). These counters need to share some workspace as part of some other state owned government office & work from Monday to Friday 9 AM to 5:30 PM only to carry out two major tasks
  1. Print the traffic violation along with the penalty & dispatch it to the respective vehicle owners
  2. Collect the penalty from the vehicle owners

Last edited by aargee : 10th February 2010 at 15:17.
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Old 10th February 2010, 15:22   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
This is an idea that was born out of my mistake & I need to thank an unknown lady & 2 of her children who were on a scooty pep & my dear son.

The other day when after crossing Anna Nagar main circle (roundtanna), I saw this lady along with her two children in the back snailing on a pink scooty blocking the right most lanes. As usual I thought I’ll teach her a lesson, but then the very thought of TBHP sticker on the rear of my car changed my mind. I overtook her but didn’t give her a cut or anything; however it was very close though. Just after crossing, I could see her ride on the left lane through my RVM. After a KM or so (nr Thirumangalam junction), I could see through the window that those two children & this lady were yelling at me. I rolled down the window & started with verbal showers (no abuse). They were complaining that I was cutting through them, although I knew I wasn’t, anyway to cut the long story short, the lady said she will give a complaint to the police for which I replied, I will be happy to get away with a fine of Rs 500 or so. But soon I realized what I’ve been doing is stupid & rolled up the window & that was it.
Hi Aargee,

You didn't want to harass Lady and her 2 Kids on the road because your car had TeamBHP Stickers. Fair Enough.

Why did you not go up to her and tell her that riding triples on a bike is unsafe, and take a few minutes to explain lane disciple to her, instead of driving close by her scooty?

Were they all wearing Helmets?

This is INDIA, we know how most people get their licenses, and how they drive, all this mechanisation will not make any difference.

The Obstinate ones prefer paying fines to learn, the regular road user, if casually explained does try to understand and implement.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 10th February 2010, 15:29   #3
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Putting it all together
A person roams around the city with RC captures the pictures/videos of scene of traffic violation & the RC sends the same to CSS. Upon each approval from CSS, the person is eligible for a small amount of incentive (of-course after tax) that encourages him to take more & more scene of violation. Once the image is approved by the CSS, the image is transferred to the TVC in a round robin fashion. At each TVC, the details of every vehicle & its respective owner are identified & the penalty amount along with the scene of violation is sent via registered post to the registered address mentioning the date on which the penalty is to be paid at a respective TVC. The catch however here is that each penalty amount has the following components…
  1. Fine amount (whatever is existing as of now)
  2. CSS charges per violation
  3. TVC charges per violation
  4. Postal charges
  5. Other charges (the incentive parts comes here before tax)
  6. Tax (tax on the incentive to be borne by the violator)
  7. Education cess
  8. RTO fee
  9. One time system setup charges
  10. Bank handling charges
  11. Mobile service charges
The idea behind point 2, 3, 4, 9, 10 & 11 are such that it should include a recovery amount or probably a charge to compensate the charges incurred to handle one case by CSS, TVC & service providers. It may or may not be possible to recover the complete expenses, but, at least the money gained through these components should help support the system run to some extent.

The idea behind point 5 is to encourage more participants & reduce the violations. Depending upon the number of participants this amount can be varied from time to time. Now for a fine of 50Rs, imagine that the penalty amount could work up to Rs 100 – 150.

Points 1, 6, 7 & 8 is to increase revenue to the respective departments
Once the post is delivered, the respective owner is to appear in person along with his driving license & any other photo identification proof (other than DL to double sure the identity) at the respective TVC, only on the specified day to pay the penalty amount at the specified TVC & sign in the digital register. Once this is done, the case is closed.

If the vehicle owner is unable to make to the specified TVC on first attempt, then, after a week, the TVC dispatches another letter with the same amount of previous except that there are additional postal charges dispatched for the second time. If the vehicle owner is unable to make to the specified TVC on second attempt, then after a week, the TVC dispatches last & final letter with the same amount of second with additional postal charges dispatched for the third time after a week.

After three attempts, if there’s a no show from the owner, the vehicle is termed as stolen (filed with RTO & all police stations) & the case is dispatched to the police station at the TVC (not near to the owner’s locality or may be a special squad in place to & add the cost of operation to the vehicle owner) to tow the vehicle to the respective TVC with additional 2 charges below

12. Police handling charges
13. Vehicle towing expenses!!!

Once the case is closed, the payment is realized to the bank, but only in batches, say once a month. The bank then dispatches the money to the local branch to respective account holder. (Tagged in form of the RC id and account number through the system only at the main bank)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Why did you not go up to her and tell her that riding triples on a bike is unsafe, and take a few minutes to explain lane disciple to her, instead of driving close by her scooty?
Actually you're right - I didn't tell that. Since I left off my cool, I couldn't even think about in these lines (you know brain gets struck thinking how to keep offending more with words).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Were they all wearing Helmets?
Yes, I remember that lady was wearing a black scarf or may be a helmet, but for sure something was there on her head. Definetly the children were not wearing helmets. But is there a rule that the pillion rider should wear one? Not sure about other places, but there was a talk going on 1-2 years back that the pillions should wear but then, the government doesn't even bother the riders wearing helmets these days!!!

Last edited by aargee : 10th February 2010 at 15:38.
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Old 10th February 2010, 15:57   #4
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The fun part
  1. The person might have committed the violation in Chennai; however, he could land up travelling all way up to Kanyakumari to pay the penalty.
  2. Since the fine is not raised there’re no changes to the existing system; still the cops can catch hold of the people violating the law & “proceed” thereafter
  3. The person who captures the picture can be located anywhere hence people driving vehicle need to be very careful so as not to get caught
  4. Since the RC does not have a memory facility, people who capture the scene of violation cannot simply show the image to the respective traffic offender to extract money
  5. Whoever commits the traffic violence, the owner himself has to show up to pay the fine. Sometimes, they have to spend 1000’s of rupees for travelling to pay a fine of 150 Rs.
  6. There’s no direct connection between the person capturing the image, the CSS & the TVC, henceforth no recommendation or influence can work
  7. The TVC works morning hours on collecting the fee, say from 09:00 to 14:00 & start working on dispatching letters from 14:30 to 17:30. If the vehicle owner is unable to pay the fine because of the long standing queue from 09:00 to 14:00 on the specific day as stated in the letter, then they have two choices…
    1. Appear in person to CSS to pay the fine, ofcourse with all the relevant proofs
    2. Stand in the queue for the next day, probably by standing in the queue early. If the traffic offenders are unable to pay the fine on the specific day due to excessive people standing in the queue, then the government cannot be blamed & they inturn have to follow the same. This will serve as a good lesson so that they don’t commit mistakes (even by mistake) the next time.
  8. If a person who takes the scene of violation has more than 2 rejections a month, then a temporary suspension of 1 month should be put in place so as not to accept any more scene of violation from this RC.
  9. Imagine a person committing two traffic violation in two consecutive weeks & the person has to travel to two different localities to pay up the fine (provided things go smooth)

Last edited by aargee : 10th February 2010 at 15:58.
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Old 10th February 2010, 16:26   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
This is an idea that was born out of my mistake & I need to thank an unknown lady & 2 of her children who were on a scooty pep & my dear son.

Collect the penalty from the vehicle owners
Indeed a noble thought and a good idea here, but i think this technology albeit not probably to the exactness of your suggested solution is already getting in place. In bangalore we have these cameras mounted on important junctions which capture any violations. The chalans I assume are sent to the violator and its even gone to extent where they are thinking of implementing a web based payment solution.
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Old 10th February 2010, 17:30   #6
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@aargee,

Please take a look through this thread :

Automobiles with Video cameras to be used as evidence / feedback (Automobiles with Video Cameras to be used as Evidence/ feedback)

cya
R
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Old 10th February 2010, 17:37   #7
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Benefits
  1. All the minor offences (that actually leads to disasters) such as driving on wrong side, jumping signals, not stopping before stop light, entry into one way, illegal parking, jay walking, rash & negligence driving, illegal number plates, helmetless riding, most importantly – talking in mobile when driving can be controlled to a great extent
  2. There’re recovery charges at every level & hence there’s a minimal or no investment required from the government except the system setup charges that can be collected (more violations, more profit)
  3. Government can increase employment opportunities in the government side at CSS & TVC; also can increase opportunities on self employment for people who lease the RC.
  4. Traffic police can focus on better work other than manning automatic signals that will eventually lead to increased productivity on closing other cases
  5. Increase the responsibility of the vehicle drivers/owners
  6. Increase of revenue to income tax & RTO
  7. Nobody can be influential at any level because, the person who takes the pictures are unknown to the traffic violators, CSS & TVC; the vehicle owners/traffic violators are unknown to the CSS & TVC; the CSS team are located remotely to befriended by the TVC. Also the process from capturing the scene of violence to the vehicle owner appearing at TVC is automated & the only manual process is paying the fine & digital signature.
  8. There’re so many parties involved in recognizing the revenue such as income tax, RTO, bank, mobile service providers. So it becomes difficult to cheat the system & a mistake occurring at one place will have an impact at several levels.
  9. If the RC is returned in a damaged state & the person does not want to continue carrying out the job, then the caution deposit is not refunded otherwise the RC is sent to the manufacturer & the person gets a replacement
  10. It is possible that the vehicle owner could get away with the TVC cops by some means & that’s the reason the vehicle is marked as stolen to get it impounded.
Drawbacks
  1. Complex to setup the entire process
  2. There’re thin chances that the scene of violation cannot be transmitted due to weak signals
  3. There’re thin chances that people committing a traffic violence in Chennai could be appearing at Chennai TVC
  4. The real traffic offender may not be the owner in reality; For E.g. public vehicles like cabs; also, the violation can occur when the vehicle is sold & vehicle ownership transfer is pending. So this could have a negative impact on used vehicle market & also have a positive impact on the awareness that the ownership must be transferred immediately after a vehicle sale.
  5. Still no one will be able to control the government vehicles as there’s a question of which department/person will represent the government owned vehicles
  6. Can there be something like a Radio Camera or something in the first place to transmit images & videos only to a specific (or programmed) number or server?
  7. There are loopholes possible for certain activities such as import of the RC unit, getting it repaired or providing a replacement that may cause prolonged period yielding to unethical practices.
  8. It is possible that the registered owner address & the current residential address of the vehicle owner could be different
  9. At one look it is not possible by the CSS team to approve or reject hence it could cause some delays but no dismissal

Last edited by Rehaan : 10th February 2010 at 20:08. Reason: Editing out merge request
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Old 10th February 2010, 18:31   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotorhead View Post
Indeed a noble thought and a good idea here, but i think this technology albeit not probably to the exactness of your suggested solution is already getting in place. In bangalore we have these cameras mounted on important junctions which capture any violations. The chalans I assume are sent to the violator and its even gone to extent where they are thinking of implementing a web based payment solution.
Yes this system is present in Chennai too; as far as I know, say a year atleast now. But still I see people do not stop before the stop line, jump the signals.

I know that the traffic violence challan is printed only for about 10 days in a month, atleast here in Chennai.
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Old 10th February 2010, 18:38   #9
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Its strange that people demand all kinds of safety features, and other expensive items, when majority of the population is price conscious, yet they wont obey and drive softly.

You can get flying cars, it still wont solve your problem.
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Old 11th February 2010, 08:37   #10
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Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
Its strange that people demand all kinds of safety features, and other expensive items, when majority of the population is price conscious, yet they wont obey and drive softly.

You can get flying cars, it still wont solve your problem.
The safety features are for 2 reason
1. I drive fast & I need absolute control
2. I drive cautious, but someone hits me, I should be safe

In the former case, I'm the troublemaker, in the latter, someone else is, but I still need to be safe.

But why do people don't follow something? They don't follow things when things don't go their way. So inorder to make things happen, they do their own things.

In driving, if there's a smooth flow of traffic and if the smooth flow is equal to the speed of my driving speed (things happen my way), we're not irritated & obey the law; when our driving speed is 60 & the flow of traffic is 30, the mood swings & inorder to (things to make happen my way) cope up, we don't care whether traffic rules are followed or not.
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Old 11th February 2010, 13:32   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
But why do people don't follow something? They don't follow things when things don't go their way. So inorder to make things happen, they do their own things.

In driving, if there's a smooth flow of traffic and if the smooth flow is equal to the speed of my driving speed (things happen my way), we're not irritated & obey the law; when our driving speed is 60 & the flow of traffic is 30, the mood swings & inorder to (things to make happen my way) cope up, we don't care whether traffic rules are followed or not.
This is a very childish reasoning. There are many things that don't go your way but that doesn't give you the authority to break the rules.
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Old 11th February 2010, 13:45   #12
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Did u say someone roam around with the camera and capture violations? What? You mean, this un-official guy now takes the place of the traffic police? Which means you can get away by paying bribe just like you do now! I am not even talking about photo manipulation etc.

Nah..won't work.
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Old 11th February 2010, 14:12   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjayc View Post
Did u say someone roam around with the camera and capture violations? What? You mean, this un-official guy now takes the place of the traffic police? Which means you can get away by paying bribe just like you do now! I am not even talking about photo manipulation etc.

Nah..won't work.
Well, this cannot happen.
Once someone clicks the pic, the image is immediately sent to the nearest mobile tower, so he cannot show the pic to the offender to extract money. Also the image is removed from the memory card, even if it is available, the pic has gone already

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
This is a very childish reasoning. There are many things that don't go your way but that doesn't give you the authority to break the rules.
Ok that was just my observation. Just keep thinking about this point, next time when you break a rule, share me your experience

Last edited by aargee : 11th February 2010 at 14:13.
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Old 11th February 2010, 15:52   #14
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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
Well, this cannot happen.
Once someone clicks the pic, the image is immediately sent to the nearest mobile tower, so he cannot show the pic to the offender to extract money. Also the image is removed from the memory card, even if it is available, the pic has gone already
No need to show any picture. If the guy driving the vehicle is genuinely at fault, his fear of this "roaming person with rc" will be enough to settle..like it regularly happens as of today. On top of that, who knows the picture is also uploaded, as per your technology, so at the end, on the spot settlement also done and future fine also needs to be paid.

And, no sooner that you can blink, the cameras will stop functioning..like the video survelliance cameras. There are way too many easy ways to get around your suggestions. Not to speak of misuse by parties involved.

The only thing that will prevent users from doing such things is to impose heavy fines (if fines go up, the bribe also goes up), hence it will become some kind of detterent.
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Old 11th February 2010, 15:57   #15
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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
Ok that was just my observation. Just keep thinking about this point, next time when you break a rule, share me your experience
Think of what point? So you say that you constantly break rules if you are upset with the traffic?
As with me, the only rule I break is the speed limit Period. It has nothing to with the traffic sense or my mood. I feel that most speed limits in India are way too unpractical and if you go with the flow, more often than not, you are breaking the speed limit.
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