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|7th May 2010, 13:03||#121|
Does anybody know WHY race attacks happened in AUS, or WHY specific regional people are the object of people's ire in Delhi?
The answer, according to an AUSsie is that, we were using THEIR resources, taking up THEIR jobs, crowding THEIR public transport, coming to THEIR city with our boorish behavior.
Think with an open mind, if the Chinese/ some other country do the same to us, how will we feel. How will we digest the fact that a foreigner, a complete stranger competes for a job/college against you. This is how they feel, and this is how Delhiites feel for regional competition, We Delhiites consider Delhi to be a separate country and such incidents do happen. Though some of it has been replicated in our very own Mumbai & BLR from time to time.
Though, selective promotion of workers in an organization is something beyond me, this is unacceptable in an Indian employment and, I have never heard of it, sincerely, in the years of my employment.
North Indians getting trouble in South?
I had an ancestral house in Bangalore. A relative built 50 small apartments in a 4 storey complex, with all amenities(24hr water,parking etc.), for rental purposes. Now, a group of 50*3 people (Male & female) from different IT companies, from different parts of north India came to reside there. Less than 8 months later, he had to vacate the property using Judicial means. He said that the tenants often misbehaved with people on the street, brought prostitutes and alcohol & consumed it in full public view. The girls used to sleep around and there used to be street fights & quarrels regularly, they even stopped paying rent after 3 months. If that was not enough, a resident filed a case and we all had to give Rs.8 lac as collective compensation to the residents of the locality or risk our land getting seized.
Now, tell me, isn't the above detrimental to Bengaluru's culture?
If you consider this as a one off incident, try looking for a rented accommodation in BLR mentioning you 'are an IT guy' in Hindi, most of them would shut the door in your face or will charge super normal rent or will take a humongous sum as security.
A region is only what its denizens make of it, If someone from North India indulges in misdemeanor in South India, he creates a blot on the image of his own region. Similarly, if India is known for display of boorish behavior to citizens of AUS/USA, then ,it is natural for them to think that all Indians are the same
|7th May 2010, 13:25||#122|
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And talking about the relative building 50 odd rooms. Didnt he see this coming? Why didnt he get only south indians to stay. I think the greed shown by residents of this city to extract how much ever miney they can from outsiders has put you into the rut.
Do you see the corruption in your city which is of the highest level and then judge the situation?
PS: I am from Goa - Its not in the North
Also please avoid such off topic issues here. Read the topic heading, understand and reply.
Last edited by Spitfire : 7th May 2010 at 13:34.
|7th May 2010, 14:16||#123|
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Off Topic: Well I do not wish to categories anything. I am an Indian first and then a Marathi but then even we (My colony) had real bad experience with north Indian people. The bachelors staying in the apartment stole a car for night and then girls used to smoke openly sitting in the colony garden. Within a month the owner had to let them go. Interestingly all these guys were north indians. Few biharis and few Delhi-UP side. One of a case I guess.
|7th May 2010, 14:29||#124|
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Have been a northie (actually, grew up in the east) in Bangalore for over 14 years now. Sure there are idiots everywhere (and from everywhere), but by and large, I have gotten along famously not only with Bangaloreans (consider myself one, now) but with folks from Andhra, and Kerala, and TN, and Orissa, and the NE and even Nepal - all of whom have made this their home.
Not only that, we've now setup a home in Coorg and tho I'm only haltingly learning the language, I have friends amongst the really friendly folks around there.
Me, and a bunch of "old time" northies in Bangalore even have an expression framed in jest - "BNI" or b***dy north Indians - that we ourselves are. These is purely in jest - partly as a joke about the discomfort-in-a-new-place of the fresh-off-the-flights/trains, and partly as banter about the reaction of the few rigid old timers. The city is amazingly friendly compared to most, the coffee good and the weather awesome!
The problem usually lies behind our eyes, and between the ears. Not elsewhere. We see, hear and believe what we want to. If you want to give in to racial/ethic stereotypes based on a few anecdotes, and without rationalizing someone else's behaviour, you will! Delhi is aggressive and effective, Mumbai too busy and efficient, Calcutta poetic and political, Bangalore laidback and friendly - all for very good reasons that are a joy to understand unless you get clobbered by the blinds of regional/ethnic pride/mistrust even before you start on that journey. If you do, all I can say is, poor you.
Last edited by zenx : 7th May 2010 at 14:34.
|7th May 2010, 14:34||#125|
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Anyway, i wont comment on the Ban-galore culture since it is off topic.
The reason for Aussie attacks (which the media, in particular one channel) were quick to label racism was as follow:
1. Less educated youths from backward areas of some states were lured by agents promising a good education and better life in Australia
2. When these folks land there, they realized that the "educational institute" is nothing but a shoddy thing that will hardly give them any education and on top of it, they have no money with them to survive.
3. So, they start doing part time jobs. Of course they are not legally allowed to work because the govt thinks that the proof of funds these people had shown were authentic.
4. These people dont get paid by cheques or electronic transfers because their employers know they cant legally employ them. But they are working at 1/4th the normal regulated rate!!
5. So, the out of work and out of money natives find themselves easy targets on pay days when these immigrated folks are returning to their cheap homes in remote parts.
Racism had nothing to do with it. It was a law and order problem.
Why people from other countries were not attacked? Because they were not shown pipe dreams and most of them knew what they were getting into and most likely had the funds to support them.
Anyway, I narrated this whole story because people are getting wrong ideas about living in Australia.
Slightly OT but the language based riots that happened years ago also had economic reasons. The center had decided to conduct exams in hindi only which would have left majority of people from southern parts clueless.
Last edited by amitoj : 7th May 2010 at 14:37.
|7th May 2010, 14:34||#126|
I wrote all this only because I was asked a clarification regarding the regionalism, otherwise I have mentioned my views in my first two posts.
No offence to any state/country intended, just my contribution to a discussion.
Amitoj, I really think I jumped the gun there quoting a hot blooded Aussie in exact statement(Delhi heat taking its toll?), Sorry. Please don't feel offended anyone.These are my own personal views and I am not applying it to anyone or at large.
The cops asked my colleague not to press charges on 20+year old Aussie Kids.
Last edited by JustCause : 7th May 2010 at 14:54.
|7th May 2010, 16:57||#127|
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(2) So there is a glass ceiling in Indian companies which prevents indians from climbing the ladder? Do you even know what a glass ceiling is?
As far as minority rights in India is concerned, it is better than most countries. US, UK win because of better law enforcement.
(1) Aus identified the indigenous as a part of their flora and fauna till 1960s.
(2) The less said about the islamic countries, the better.
(3) Canada; people have already spoken enough about.
(4) EU (outside UK) : Watch a bit of football and you'll know what actual racism is.
India is a very left leaning country, and social problems are highlighted, and often exaggerated.
(1) Jews have lived here without any discrimination for centuries.
(2) Same is true for Parsees.
(3) The 150 mill. muslims are better off here than they would have been, not only in other Talibanized countries, but even in the West where they are profiled as plausible suspects.
(4) Yes, there have been aberrations, but from a statistical point of view, if you take into account the size of the country, they are minor issues really.
(5) I do see a lot of rants about the Caste system. The Caste system exists only among very orthodox families in the cities of India. There are, today, way too many intercaste marriages in Urban Indian. It is still a big problem in remote villages. But we aren't talking of remote villagers here, are we?
The fact is most people, on this board at least , are not living in ghettos. And they do run the risk of being ghetto-ized abroad.
I said, if I assume that, in the worst case, 70 out of 100 managers have a regional bias, that would still ensure enough entropy in the system to make the system, as a whole, lack any bias.
If there are 10 managers, and 7 communities in a country. If 7 support 1 community each, and the remaining 3 are fair, the net resultant vector should also be unbiased.
In reality of course, the proportion of biased managers would be far less, and thus easily neutralize any resultant bias in the system/instution.
It is simple math.
I am not contradicting myself, you fail at comprehension.
(2) A vast majority of people, who are capable of moving abroad as skilled labour, also belong to the majority. And as you conceded, that majorities do not get discriminated against in India, and there is a possibility of them being discriminated against in the west, isn't it a plus for them to stay back?
If I assume that dogma is usually normally distributed, just like most traits (which is a fair assumption). Even if I assume that only 1 standard dev of people are unbiased, that would still mean 68% unbiased managers.
Your entire point is that minorities are discriminated against in India. My point is that minorities are discriminated against EVERY PLACE ELSE in the world (exceptions being truly cosmopolitan cities like NYC, London etc)
Thus, from a pure utilitarian point of view, if one belongs to a majority here, and is earning well he should consider discrimination when he moves abroad!
Your argument seems to be: A belongs to a majority in India. He will be a minority abroad, and can be possible discriminated against. But minorities are discrim. against in India as well. So A will be fine in the west.
The flaw here, of course, is that A does not belong to any minority in India.
Last edited by e1t1bet : 7th May 2010 at 16:59.
|7th May 2010, 17:26||#128|
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Looking at the way this thread is progressing I think we should change the thread title to 'Racism : Is it worth it ?'
On a serious note, guys, lets please restrict the posting in alignment to the title . Really looking forward to opinions on the actual subject !!!
|7th May 2010, 17:40||#129|
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I guess the number and temperature of comments will have shut the OP so tight that he will have vowed never to raise this kind of question here again.
This is not East Vs West debate as most people are trying to argue out.
Moving to another country is purely for economic reasons for most people and all the preceding pages of arguments need to go down the drain
|7th May 2010, 17:46||#130|
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I find this thread interesting----but the recent posts seem to be straying from the central theme of the thread starter.
I myself contemplated shifting to the US a decade ago, when as many as 500 employees from my company moved there during the IBM and ERP boom. Somehow fate had other things in store for me, and the market also crashed due to Y2K.
Despite the frustration, my presence in India paid off to me because I could spend a longer time with my dad , who passed away in a couple of years after a sudden heart attack, despite being healthy. I've found several of my pals in the US who had a tough time getting leave sanctioned in such emergencies, and the pangs of guilt they felt for being away from them loved ones in their final moments.
So this is something one must be prepared for if one goes abroad---it will be difficult to attend most social functions of near and dear ones. We Indians are more kinship-oriented and draw comfort from the circle of relatives.
In my recent visit to DC, I found that more than 70% of my pals wanted to return to India, and were seeking detailed info from me on the cost of living, schooling, etc. The reasons cited vary from:-
However, it is true that the qualtiy of life will be a lot better there. From cleaner water to wider roads with great civic sense, the list is never-ending. I loved the 2 stints of 3 months each in the US, and long for more.
Going by the above, it is your call and you need to take a decision keeping all + and - factors listed. Best of luck!!
|7th May 2010, 17:52||#131|
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But as you put it, one needs to weigh in all the factors. It isn't all that bad, and it isn't all that rosy either.
|7th May 2010, 18:07||#132|
|8th May 2010, 14:15||#133|
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A friendly word to all those people who feel "outsiders" when they move to different parts of the country. Please consider this:
What Indians do when they move to the US?
1. Try to understand their culture
2. Try to adopt their culture when they are there.
3. Try to catch and speak their accent
4. Try to adopt to various their food habits (I don't mean forget Indian food and eat American food all day)
When I mean culture, I mean the small gestures like the "Thanks!", "Sorry", "Excuse Me", etc etc. All in all, they try to be a part of the "Melting Pot"
What Indians do when they migrate to other parts of India
1. They do not really understand the local culture and sentiments of the people. They think this is their own part of India, which seems correct to them.
2. They start hating and disrespecting the locals.
3. They start hating the local language.
4. They start hating the local food.
5. Humiliate someone who speak the local language
And what does this "CULTURAL SHOCK" mean? You guys weren't really aware that India was made of diverse cultures? You guys really thought the whole country had Channa Bhatura or Idli Vada Sambar for breakfast? Please understand that we should be tolerant to the cultures that are native to India.
The replies on this very thread is divided into two parts.
1. People who migrated to different parts of India are considerably happy (Although their number is very small)
2. People who think India is only their part of India and the rest of it is worst than any other part of the world. Huh! When you guys accept the local culture as "Indian", these problems normally do not happen.
You guys might state one-off incidents which are caused by uneducated idiots. Such idiots are everywhere. Don't you guys think?
And lastly, sorry if I have hurt anyone. I have seen both sides of the story. I have had very good friends from other part of the country who mingle with the locals. I have also seen people getting into real trouble by hurting the sentiments of the local people.
I'm open to suggestions and criticisms. Please let me know if I'm not exactly right. I would like to stand corrected.
Lets all say and MEAN this: "Mera Bharat Mahan!" JAI HIND!!!
|8th May 2010, 14:21||#134|
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A typical example, My friends in the IT industry quite a few who are from North, prefer to speak only Hindi and ask me also to talk in Hindi. I simply respond that If I come to Mumbai for instance and speak in Kannada and ask them to do so as well, will they respond?
|8th May 2010, 14:37||#135|
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Ive noticed that A LOT of the outsiders in Bangalore DO NOT want to learn Kannada or be a part of the local Bangalore culture and stuff. You cant expect everyone to know Hindi or English. Ive tried getting outsiders in my batch in college to learn Kannada, etc..but they wont. In fact, when i go somewhere people assume im automatically from somewhere else and they start speaking to me in Hindi. Im a down home Bangalorean/Kannadadiga. I understand that Hindi is the national language, but there are 22 other recognized official languages.
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