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Old 29th August 2012, 14:10   #211
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Originally Posted by Wolfheart View Post
Canada has currently halted acepting Skilled Worker applications. Australia would be a better option at least in terms of visa availability.

One word of advice, when you choose any immigration consultant, make sure you choose one that is registered with the Migration Agents Registration Authority (www.mara.gov.au). Going with unregistered immigration consultants makes you vulnerable to fraud.
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I know someone here in Hyderabad who is a MARA agent, Mr Prasad. You can call him on 9959992458. Please do due diligence before availing the services.
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@KPGB,

There is no need for any agent to apply for Canada/Australia. All the relevant info is available on their websites. Anyone can do it with some research. Agents does not and cannot do anything more than what you can. There is a process in place and everyone has to go thru it. Agents do not have a special inside route to get you in. Please don't waste your hard earned money.
Wolfheart,lejhoom,VLOCT,

Thank you very much for the valuable piece of advise - this definitely helps me to weigh in my options. I'll do my bit and see where this leads me to :-). I am an IT professional with 12 years experience - my only concern is that I need to land in a decent job relevant to my experience and I am finding it hard to get any leads from here. Not sure if the emigration way will work to my favor but I'll try my chance.

Thanks
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Old 29th August 2012, 14:30   #212
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Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

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Originally Posted by adits View Post
As others have said, each persons outlook is different basis their own personal circumstances. However, if you look at these points objectively, this is my opinion -
Good post! Thank you

Instead of going to the India v/s US route, I would like to mention a few points for those who are contemplating about migrating to another country (long term).

Know the reason to migrate. For e.g.; I want to make this move because (1) better job prospects / money (2) better living standards (3) explore/ know a different culture. A mix of all the 3 points works the best. If you are going just because of the first reason, there is a high probability of you to remain as an unhappy soul.

Learn about the place. In some cases, the money maybe excellent but the place maybe extremely unsuitable for you as a person. It could be the social makeup of the place, food habits etc. Doing your research will help in understanding, and respecting the cultural nuances of the location.

Go with an open mind. Remove preconceived notions that you’ll have negative experiences due to your race, colour etc. This will help you to gel with the new place much faster. And key part is not to think that you’re dealing with foreigners. Infact you’re dealing with the natives. Remember, in a foreign land, you’re the foreigner and not the other way around.
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Old 29th August 2012, 14:44   #213
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Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

Another perspective that i thought of. For those who are thinking whether they should emigrate or not; because of racism, cultural differences, affordabilty etc. Probably discussed already.

If emigration is about affording a few basic luxuries of life and technology - If you actually look at affording things, for eg: a good house, latest TV, a reasonably good car etc., i think we are on par with Foreign countries (or very close). For eg: there was a time when camera was a luxury and SLR super luxury. Now most of us can easily afford a Canon 5D Mark III or D800 with a few months of savings (minor savings) or by swiping my credit card (which is what most people do). The EMI culture is catching up fast, you can buy a lot of things on EMI, which once was considered a western thing. You get reasonably well maintained used BMW, Camry, Accords for less than 10L. If some sensible law changes happen, more things will become affordable, that's a wild guess by me though (like FDI in retail, reduing import duties for cars etc.) Technology wise, i see lot of people using iphones, Galaxy S2 and S3 etc., even teenagers !!! With more and more phone models coming in this gap will reduce too. Broadband is used by all, speeds are increasing and we will soon catch up on that.

About the cultural differences - One big concern that a lot of the folks earlier had while emigrating was about the conflict of cultures. I mean, in Indian culture, we are used to respecting elders (and not questioning them even if they are wrong), being very religious, wearing dress that are traditional in nature (often forgetting convenience), not drink, eat less non-veg and be more vegetarian (religious influences too), not discuss "f" words and about love, relationships with parents and what not ?

They have all changed in India too, isn't it ? Kids know what they want, they want to choose their future (unlike our parents who used to decide what i should be and should not be doing in life) McDonalds and KFC are household names, kids are free to decide whether they want to be religious or not, teenagers and youngsters visit pubs, are open about relationships, more and more mms scandals, dress the way you want. Kids are open with parents about their relationships. Ten years back, i'd have been beaten up, if i told my dad that i had beer ! So don't hold back yourself because you think there is a cultural shock that you would experience after emigrating. Same here and there too.

Emigrate if you want some better living conditions right away, and enjoy while you are there. You might or might be able to save money, and the concept of savings is mostly Indian/Asian

Wherever you are, be happy, laugh, love yourself and dear ones as much as possible, drive safe and enjoy the places.
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Old 29th August 2012, 14:56   #214
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Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Good post! Thank you

Instead of going to the India v/s US route, I would like to mention a few points for those who are contemplating about migrating to another country (long term).
Quote:
And key part is not to think that you’re dealing with foreigners. Infact you’re dealing with the natives. Remember, in a foreign land, you’re the foreigner and not the other way around.
Exactly my feelings. I had this during my first term, used to always, think why are these foreigners so. But then realised at one point that, I am the odd man out here and not them! Now that you have brought this point up, i hope people will be aware of this in the future.

Quote:
Know the reason to migrate.

Learn about the place.

Go with an open mind.
Well coined titles sir.

I wish I had some guidance like this before I left for abroad. Its not that I am unhappy about the place, but, would have been able to mitigate the homesickness in a much better way.

Moreover, I guess, we can here help others, with particular queries or even post our experiences, country wise (with some official documents and links to govt. sites), so that this would serve as a reference point for if not all but most of the countries.
I will soon post a huge list of exhaustive ways to migrate to Germany. WIP. Please bear with me for a few days.

Cheers! drive safe.

Last edited by AlphaKilo : 29th August 2012 at 14:57.
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Old 29th August 2012, 15:47   #215
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Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

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Originally Posted by drsingh View Post
The gist of this thread is that most people want to go abroad for the money, most would love to stay back in india if they had enough money and enjoy perks india provides to those with lots of cash!!

I.e. lots of servants, cutting to the front of the line, influence, degrees for kids, residence in exclusive townships.

A case of ' grapes are sour '!?!?
I did not get your post at all. Most of us who are posting on this forum are car owners and own a computer or smartphone from where we post. Ergo we can certainly afford the points you have mentioned (or aspire to someday). The only exceptions I can see are "cutting to the front of the line" and "influence".

Believe it or not, these two are among the things that actually made me consider emigrating a few years ago. Born of simple, working-class stock and having been taught from an early age that education and hard work are the only way to success, it was getting too much of a pain to see ignorant, barely-literate and completely uncultured people wield all the "influence" that allowed them to cut in front of any line without batting an eyelid while the likes of me stood patiently and chafed silently.

I spent a couple of years abroad in one of the least corrupt and most organised countries today and enjoyed every minute there. Of course there are always reasons and justifications for making the choices one makes and today I find myself back in the country of my birth and fairly happy about it too. But I still regret that those guys are still cutting to the front of the line!
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Old 29th August 2012, 16:10   #216
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Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

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Originally Posted by AlphaKilo View Post
Moreover, I guess, we can here help others, with particular queries or even post our experiences, country wise (with some official documents and links to govt. sites), so that this would serve as a reference point for if not all but most of the countries.
I will soon post a huge list of exhaustive ways to migrate to Germany. WIP. Please bear with me for a few days.

Cheers! drive safe.
Would really love to know ways to migrate to Germany. I am actually planning to Denmark and was looking for avenues to. Even approached an emigration agency here asking for prices etc and even got a technical evaluation done.

But my post got lost since it opened up a whole lot of posts about culture and what not
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Old 29th August 2012, 16:27   #217
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Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

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Would really love to know ways to migrate to Germany. I am actually planning to Denmark and was looking for avenues to. Even approached an emigration agency here asking for prices etc and even got a technical evaluation done.

But my post got lost since it opened up a whole lot of posts about culture and what not
hehe OTOH, I have been trying to avoid getting into that discussion for long now! But then this is a open forum and every person has rights to share his views.

So, I will put a ghist for you so that it might serve you as a starter. Big list will follow later.

Immigrating to Germany:

Possible ways:
Student -
-Engineering studies are best, cheap(literally no tutions fee), so many reputed Universities. (http://www.daad.de/en/) for info on studying in Germany. or Masters in Germany Demystified
-Part time jobs while studying - work allowed - 240 half days or 120 full days in a year (new rule!!)
-The cost you might save on the fee might be given away on accomodation, but still one can live within 600 euros/month in Germany.(irrespective of city!)
-Students are encouraged to internships and Thesis are mostly in companies - easy entry into job market!
-Most of German cities have multilingual capability - knowing German will be an advantage but not a necessity
-Fantastic oppurtunities, second to none, for research scholars and post doc's. Stipend is paid according to govt. mandate salary class - in hand salary will be around 1500-1800euros.
-Job opportunities are plenty and its even easier for those who graduate from a German institution - projected by 2030 they would need atleast 30 million engineers - low birth rate - new open to migration policy in place since july 2012.
-Obtaining PR / Work permit has become easy task since the July 2012 "Blue card" rule. (Eu Blue Card)

Skilled Workers:
-Germany is always in need of skilled workers. Probably the only country which is still recruiting amidst its neighbours struggling to even hold on jobs.
-Knowledge of Language is although not officially mandatory, inofficially a big must! Atleast basic conversation abilities are expected.
-Good command over english (not an issue for most us Indians-hopefully!!!)
-Before you apply for a work permit, you would need to have a work contract/offer in hand
-Engineering and sciences are most demanded profession, not sure about IT services.
For visa information please refer: German Missions in India - Visa Information

Hope it helps. I will anyways post a very detailed report soon. Please bear with me or PM me for more info.

P.S: There are as far as I know no agents who look into Germany jobs, so don't fall prey to anyone. all processes are direct and can be easily performed by the individual himself/herself.

Last edited by AlphaKilo : 29th August 2012 at 16:33.
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Old 29th August 2012, 16:58   #218
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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Good post! Thank you
You are welcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Know the reason to migrate. For e.g.; I want to make this move because (1) better job prospects / money (2) better living standards (3) explore/ know a different culture. A mix of all the 3 points works the best. If you are going just because of the first reason, there is a high probability of you to remain as an unhappy soul.
I completely agree.

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Learn about the place. In some cases, the money maybe excellent but the place maybe extremely unsuitable for you as a person. It could be the social makeup of the place, food habits etc. Doing your research will help in understanding, and respecting the cultural nuances of the location.
This was a problem for earlier generations as to the availability of vegetarian food, etc. (It still is in some countries). Another example if that in some countries, belching after a meal is considered rude and impolite while in a few others, if you do not belch loudly after meals, you are insulting the cook and the host. Belching indicates that you liked the food.

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Go with an open mind. Remove preconceived notions that you’ll have negative experiences due to your race, colour etc. This will help you to gel with the new place much faster. And key part is not to think that you’re dealing with foreigners. Infact you’re dealing with the natives. Remember, in a foreign land, you’re the foreigner and not the other way around.
Again agree. Think of it from the other side, they would say, my kid is being corrupted by Indian culture, they do not follow my XYZ culture (much as we may hate to admit it, they still have a culture that has developed over the years). I doubt any Indian will stand for such insults to our way of life and they would say that Indians are racists and are not ashamed of it.


I have actually not lived for very long in the US but what I said was generally what I feel. It engrages me no end when people harp on Indian culture but cannot answer the question on what it actually is.

Ultimately, the bext way to get someone to 'comply' to your culture is to make them understand why doing so and so is better not by forcing it down their throat. That way they appreciate what you bring to the table. In my own experience, you can get rid of all the differences this way and you still get to do things you are comfortable with although with a few changes to account for not affecting local sensitivities.

Last edited by adits : 29th August 2012 at 17:07. Reason: typo
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Old 29th August 2012, 17:37   #219
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Originally Posted by noopster

I did not get your post at all. Most of us who are posting on this forum are car owners and own a computer or smartphone from where we post. Ergo we can certainly afford the points you have mentioned (or aspire to someday). The only exceptions I can see are "cutting to the front of the line" and "influence".

Believe it or not, these two are among the things that actually made me consider emigrating a few years ago. Born of simple, working-class stock and having been taught from an early age that education and hard work are the only way to success, it was getting too much of a pain to see ignorant, barely-literate and completely uncultured people wield all the "influence" that allowed them to cut in front of any line without batting an eyelid while the likes of me stood patiently and chafed silently.

I spent a couple of years abroad in one of the least corrupt and most organised countries today and enjoyed every minute there. Of course there are always reasons and justifications for making the choices one makes and today I find myself back in the country of my birth and fairly happy about it too. But I still regret that those guys are still cutting to the front of the line!
In short, I meant people would stay back in India if they had money and all that comes with that.

People like you, who want to move because of better quality of life, in a more sophisticated society, or for purely acamedic research or a position at an esteemed institute are in a minority.

I know way too many people who earn cash abroad and come back to India, get involved in political circles or business circles and climb up the social ladder in India.

A lot of prime real estate in the north is owned by nri s now.a lot of upcoming businesses too!
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Old 29th August 2012, 19:21   #220
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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Instead of going to the India v/s US route, I would like to mention a few points for those who are contemplating about migrating to another country (long term).
Know the reason to migrate.
Learn about the place.
Go with an open mind.
I would like to add a few points of my own:

Know the person(s) who are moving and their objectives: If you are by yourself its much simpler. If other people will be moving with you, do try to understand their willingness to move and if yes, why they want to move. for example, if they want to see places around, you need to budget resources (time & money) once you get there.

Know the timeframes for each and all: if moving as a family or if you intend to begin a family, think about education and its impact on your family. In terms of finances, family support and upbringing. Basically, are you ok with your children growing up outside India? And if in a non English speaking country?

Dealing with lack of social life: is a possibility for dependents. they are more dependent on the primary applicant for their time and also travelling around in some cases (where public transport choices are limited). And one can connect with family only so much on Skype

Emergencies back in India: do you have support groups for your family back in India? if not, you could be looking at multiple trips back to India which need to be budgeted for (again both money & time). I found this out the difficult way when I had to make weekend return trips from Europe a couple of years ago. I would go to the extent of saying that be prepared to forego certain rights when moving elsewhere. One of my cousins could not make it to the final rites of her very close relative as they were in Canada. Be prepared for being practical over emotional is all I can say. However, this is easier said than done, especially for countries located further away from India.

Integrate: enjoy the company, people, place, food, weather, basically all surroundings. try to do as the locals do. eat local food and respect local customs and festivals.
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Old 29th August 2012, 19:42   #221
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Further, I think the best way is for people to be good human beings and this is what we need to teach our kids. Whether that comes from Indian or any other country's way of living is immaterial.
I am a firm believer of this - I don't care if my kids become better Indians/Canadians but I want them to be good human beings - this above everything else including religion.
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Old 29th August 2012, 23:01   #222
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In short, I meant people would stay back in India if they had money and all that comes with that.

People like you, who want to move because of better quality of life, in a more sophisticated society, or for purely acamedic research or a position at an esteemed institute are in a minority.

I know way too many people who earn cash abroad and come back to India, get involved in political circles or business circles and climb up the social ladder in India.

A lot of prime real estate in the north is owned by nri s now.a lot of upcoming businesses too!
I disagree. For me I want to emigrate because I just can't understand the social ladder in India & disagree with it for the most part. It's not about the cosmetic stuff, garbage on the streets, corruption blah blah. It's about a feeling of fitting in. It's about how people think. Here, I am looked down upon if I get some hookers or go to a "dance bar". Also it is difficult to socialize with strange women here. That's really all there is to it for me. My way of life isn't appreciated in India. And then, there's the accent...

Of course there are a privileged few who live in Breach Candy & Pali hill in their own myopic worlds, but there's more to life than going to Otter's club and "networking" with other extremely wealthy old money people all the time. They almost seem to take pride in being better than the masses. Why else would they live here? Secluded, elitist living isn't what I aspire for, but that seems to be the Indian dream. Even the upper middle class is increasingly exclusionist.

Singapore is pretty good because it is a real melting pot. Very materialistic but still not batshit insane like most Indians in India are. Only a few cities in the US come close racially. Say what you want to but it is weird as hell to go to an all white town and try to socialize or take a dip in the pool. It works both ways.

Last edited by Evil : 29th August 2012 at 23:06.
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Old 29th August 2012, 23:15   #223
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Originally Posted by Evil

I disagree. For me I want to emigrate because I just can't understand the social ladder in India & disagree with it for the most part. It's not about the cosmetic stuff, garbage on the streets, corruption blah blah. It's about a feeling of fitting in. It's about how people think. Here, I am looked down upon if I get some hookers or go to a "dance bar". Also it is difficult to socialize with strange women here. That's really all there is to it for me. My way of life isn't appreciated in India. And then, there's the accent...

Of course there are a privileged few who live in Breach Candy & Pali hill in their own myopic worlds, but there's more to life than going to Otter's club and "networking" with other extremely wealthy old money people all the time. They almost seem to take pride in being better than the masses. Why else would they live here? Secluded, elitist living isn't what I aspire for, but that seems to be the Indian dream. Even the upper middle class is increasingly exclusionist.

Singapore is pretty good because it is a real melting pot. Very materialistic but still not batshit insane like most Indians are. Only a few cities in the US come close racially. Say what you want to but it is weird as hell to go to an all white town and try to socialize or take a dip in the pool. It works both ways.
Like I said."people like you are in a minority ". The western way of life you aspire for I.e. easy socialization and people not judging your personal life,its possible only in a culture that permits it.

All valid reasons to move out.but the elitist Indian social circles are more open to that lifestyle.

They think like you in a way . But they live the life they want in India. And wealth goes a long way to achieve such a lifestyle ..
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Old 29th August 2012, 23:22   #224
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Like I said."people like you are in a minority ". The western way of life you aspire for I.e. easy socialization and people not judging your personal life,its possible only in a culture that permits it.

All valid reasons to move out.but the elitist Indian social circles are more open to that lifestyle.

They think like you in a way . But they live the life they want in India. And wealth goes a long way to achieve such a lifestyle ..
Not really, if they only have each other for company that brings forth things like gossip, outdoing each other and so forth...

And everywhere they look they see filth and people living like animals. Definitely us vs them mindset.

Even the wealthiest neighborhoods in Bombay aren't immune to the shabby autos & taxis and the way the drivers behave (yelling, spitting etc). And then there are the guards and cleaners & so forth.

Last edited by Evil : 29th August 2012 at 23:29.
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Old 30th August 2012, 00:36   #225
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Emigration has a push and pull factor attached to it.

When people find lack of opportunity as a push factor, and money exchange rate as a pull factor.

My experience has been of four years working on a cruise line in florida (2000-2004) then two years in toronto canada (2009-2011).

Only leave india if one is in a high skill or skill in demand category and excellent english skills, as to them country is just a postal code.

All developed economy are contracting, working people are a minority (1/3)and majority are on welfare or govt promoted reskill programme (1/3), or self employment/contractor(1/3).

USA is the best country on this earth, and i am not talking of New Jersey/CA state where junta goes to, -discover other 48.

Canada is easy if one lands (any how) but is a desi ghetto, especially the big cities.

Many sail and some succeed and some fail, and all takes time.

Before leaving do your preparation, will you be able to provide value to the society, as if not, then may end up in meaningless low skill job, like you see at Heathrow airport, or any.

Btw even low skill jobs have competition from afro, spainish origin people, and they can work really hard and good.

Also dont leave india for hating indian habits, people, custom etc as once you reach there they will again be there.

Last edited by ritz3645 : 30th August 2012 at 00:52.
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