Go Back   Team-BHP > Around the Corner > Shifting gears


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th December 2012, 09:10   #361
BHPian
 
acroback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 314
Thanked: 125 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms (RKBA) is enshrined in the constitution. It's the 2nd amendment. Nothing long term will be done about it at the federal level - minor tweaks may happen & there, but always be reversed.

RKBA is a good thing - amongst other things, it exists to form a militia to overthrow an oppressive government. The Govt has a right to have weapons (through the police, military etc). Citizens should not be prevented from doing so.

From the 2nd amendment
That is a pretty useless explanation for RKBA, especially in current age and world.

Arming a militia to overthrow govt can never happen in a powerful countries like USA. Pointless, providing arms to citizens is like a ticking timebomb waiting to detonate at inappropriate places.
acroback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2012, 09:22   #362
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,444
Thanked: 281 Times
Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by acroback View Post
Arming a militia to overthrow govt can never happen in a powerful countries like USA.
If that's true, it's a bad thing. Any constitution should recognize that it is not natural for a Govt to be a friend of it's citizens. The only way to keep the Govt as a friend of it's citizens is to make citizens very powerful through citizen's rights. Unfortunately, world over, citizen's rights are being eroded in the name of anti-terrorist laws (not talking about RKBA - the USA hasn't really used Anti-terrorist laws to mess with RKBA). Considering this, I think RKBA is more relevant today than 100 years back.

Also the US has close to 90 guns per 100 people. A militia is very possible - it may not be able to overthrow the Govt - the numbers are enough to give the Govt a real scare.

Other than that, in a place like the USA which is heavily rural - the nearest police may be really far away - you really need guns for protection - you cannot depend on the police to protect you.

Last edited by carboy : 15th December 2012 at 09:32.
carboy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2012, 09:37   #363
Distinguished - BHPian
 
amitoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 2,947
Thanked: 1,583 Times
Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Other than that, in a place like the USA which is heavily rural - the nearest police may be really far away - you really need guns for protection - you cannot depend on the police to protect you.
These are the reasons given by pro gun people in US for owning guns:
1. Hunting and recreation
2. Self defence

For 1, you dont need automatic weapons like AK 47s and yet people own them.
For 2, there are more modern weapons now that are not fatal and yet can incapacitate an intruder. For example tasers which even many law enforcement agencies are incorporating now.

The gun ownership rules in US are archaic at best and have a lot of room for modernization and moderation without losing any ability to self defense.
amitoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2012, 09:46   #364
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,444
Thanked: 281 Times
Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
The gun ownership rules in US are archaic at best and have a lot of room for modernization and moderation without losing any ability to self defense.
3 things
1) Not going to happen. Fooling around with Gun laws is a sure fire way to lose local elections in the red states. Even at the national level, it's a cause which has more political disadvantage than advantage - that's why you heard very little rhetoric against RKBA in the recent presidential elections.
2) What about ability to self defend against a govt which has even more sophisticated weapons?
3) If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns - the ability to self defense also depends on what kind of guns you are defending against. Outlaws will have sophisticated guns which have been made illegal.

And yeah, tasers are stupid. Just a few days back, the police in the US tasered a woman for buying too many iPhones. http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/12...m-apple-store/ - I hope the policeman is suspended (jailed even).

Last edited by carboy : 15th December 2012 at 09:49.
carboy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2012, 09:55   #365
Distinguished - BHPian
 
amitoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 2,947
Thanked: 1,583 Times
Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
3 things
1) Not going to happen. Fooling around with Gun laws is a sure fire way to lose local elections in the red states. Even at the national level, it's a cause which has more political disadvantage than advantage - that's why you heard very little rhetoric against RKBA in the recent presidential elections.
2) What about ability to self defend against a govt which has even more sophisticated weapons?
3) If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns - the ability to self defense also depends on what kind of guns you are defending against. Outlaws will have sophisticated guns which have been made illegal.

And yeah, tasers are stupid. Just a few days back, the police in the US tasered a woman for buying too many iPhones.
Regarding 2, its a futile argument. Governments have wayyyy more sophisticated arms and ammunition than a common man can ever imagine to match or possess. If you need guns to protect yourself against your own government then you are not living in a democratic country any more.

And 3 is already there. Gun law or no law.

Take Canada as an example. It has much stricter gun ownership laws and you dont hear of such shootings there. Yes, the outlaws still possess more sophisticated weapons but they use them to mostly shoot each other to eliminate competition.

And regarding 1, yes, politicians the world over seldom make a decision for the greater good.
amitoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2012, 10:00   #366
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,444
Thanked: 281 Times
Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
If you need guns to protect yourself against your own government then you are not living in a democratic country any more.
Govts are not democratic of their own volition. Citizen's rights are what keeps a govt democratic. Anyway, enough about RKBA from me on this thread.

Last edited by carboy : 15th December 2012 at 10:05.
carboy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2012, 10:00   #367
BHPian
 
princey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 139
Thanked: 49 Times
Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

Well sorry to bust your arguement, but in Canada GunCrime is on the rise.
Gun laws or not, probably open border with the US is one culprit, the organised crime and gangs another.
princey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2012, 21:44   #368
Team-BHP Support
 
mobike008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 10,515
Thanked: 7,188 Times
Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

Note from Moderator : Guys, We are getting a feeling some of the discussion is going a bit off-topic and sensitive.

Lets stay focus on topic of this thread. Thanks
mobike008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2012, 23:30   #369
BHPian
 
VLOCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Las Vegas, USA
Posts: 558
Thanked: 606 Times
Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

The basic tenet of emigration to an other country should be the willingness to accept the good that culture offers and recognize the negatives of that needs to be steered clear off. Most unhappy emigrants I have seen here have the problem that, even when they've identified the good and bad, refusal to accept them because these values do not match the values of their native culture. And because of human nature, there are simply no easy solutions to overcome these problems.

Emigration will be tough for people with very strong influences of their native culture, and if they keep forcing their native values and constantly belittle the host country's cultural values on the next generation for whom this is essentially their motherland, the probability of rebellion from their kids will be very high. You can see the evidence in such families where their kids live two lives, one at home and a completely different one outside. Not a good situation.

Everyone talks about adaptation when emigrating but, does not realize the difficulty it poses for lot of emigrants. Some people do it easily, some never will, pining for their motherland after living for decades in their host country. You can call it sacrifice or by any other term, to me it's essentially a wasted life time.

Life is to be savoured, not to be regretted. If someone finds life unbearable in India or in any other country, find a better pasture, if you can. Don't waste your life time trying to convince yourself that, you're bearing it for some higher cause. Unless you're willing to be a dedicated social worker with a cause, there is no such cause for you. The chances are, you'll be as miserable ten years from now as you're today.
VLOCT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th December 2012, 08:36   #370
BHPian
 
princey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 139
Thanked: 49 Times
Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

I have another take on this topic. In India WE will always be Class 1 citizens. May not always be the same anywhere else outside.

Life is not good/bad because of a country/place/location/opportunity...its you. Cultural values degrade overseas.

Lonely existence....find some real friends out there ???

Family values...Radical shift outside....sometimes too confusing

Think it over-Nothing to beat Bharat Mata !

Last edited by GTO : 17th December 2012 at 17:28. Reason: PM coming up
princey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th December 2012, 09:02   #371
Distinguished - BHPian
 
amitoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 2,947
Thanked: 1,583 Times
Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by princey View Post
I have another take on this topic.
In India WE will always be Class 1 citizens.
Here we go dividing people into classes!!

<SARCASM>
Does being a class 1 citizen mean seeing 1/3rd of your salary go into a black hole? Or does being a class 1 citizen mean getting stuck in a traffic jam while you or your loved one is lying in the ambulance waiting to get to the hospital? Or maybe it means having your cellphone and wallet stolen while you lie bleeding to death in a car accident.

No no wait. I got it. Being a class 1 citizen means being first in line to get trampled upon by anyone ranging from auto driver to the country's politicians.
</SARCASM>
amitoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th December 2012, 11:13   #372
Distinguished - BHPian
 
vb-san's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: S'pore/Thrissur
Posts: 4,579
Thanked: 3,475 Times
Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VLOCT View Post
The basic tenet of emigration to an other country should be the willingness to accept the good that culture offers and recognize the negatives of that needs to be steered clear off.

Excellent points! Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
Here we go dividing people into classes!!
I agree. I believe the prime purpose of this thread is to help folks, who are looking to move abroad, pros and cons, what they can expect in a certain country etc. Its best to avoid clichéd comments like class divide etc.
vb-san is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th December 2012, 13:11   #373
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,226
Thanked: 408 Times
Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellmet View Post
Thank you for the useful information Any idea if it is at all possible to look for a job sitting in India? I searched a few weeks ago and found a lot of Dutch-speaking requirements for jobs. You could however search for English speaking jobs but they were few and far between.
It is very much possible, your best bet are the various job consultants who specialise in overseas placements. If you feel motivated enough then why dont you learn Dutch before looking for jobs! I believe it is easy enough to learn dutch, it shares lots of basics with English (both belong to same class of languages).

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellmet View Post
What values are you talking about? Coming to India, I've not seen or heard of a more valueless society than us. If you want your child to dress in beautiful Indian dresses and say namastes and fall on your feet then I won't stop you from coming back. But, if you're worried about your daughter mixing with the localites and learning a 'few things' early, then what have you got to lose? Why imprison her in a cage called "Indian values" and destroy her life. Well that is unless you have such long term plans of getting her married to an Indian dulha, all arranged!
Actually agree with you here. As a society we have regressed tremendously. People simply do not care if their actions can harm others. Its really sad. We seem to care only for those whom we know, but not for those whom we dont. people seem to relate values with antique practices like touching feet or oberying elders with eyes closed but are they really values?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj View Post
Here we go dividing people into classes!!
there are some interesting experiments social scientists keep doing and some are on how well a scoeity itself integrates/accpets foreigner who have come there to settle down. one popular one is with regards to job opportunities for the settled "foreigners". Actually it has been found that the same level of opportunities do not exist if you have an obvious foreign name! For example in France, there are lot of migrants from former french colonies. It was found (in multiple experiments) that if you sent a CV with an Arab name, the probability of getting an interview call was far far less than if you sent CV with a French name!
joslicx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th December 2012, 17:36   #374
Senior - BHPian
 
shankar.balan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 8,053
Thanked: 5,303 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitoj View Post

Here we go dividing people into classes!!

<SARCASM>
Does being a class 1 citizen mean seeing 1/3rd of your salary go into a black hole? Or does being a class 1 citizen mean getting stuck in a traffic jam while you or your loved one is lying in the ambulance waiting to get to the hospital? Or maybe it means having your cellphone and wallet stolen while you lie bleeding to death in a car accident.

No no wait. I got it. Being a class 1 citizen means being first in line to get trampled upon by anyone ranging from auto driver to the country's politicians.
</SARCASM>
Being a class 1 citizen of India also means one can hold one's head up high while using the roadside as a public toilet for relief of both types...
Strangely enough this behaviour at least as far as the liquid relief version goes is quite common on the country roads of France, Spain etc so it isnt only an Indian phenomenon...
shankar.balan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th December 2012, 22:14   #375
Senior - BHPian
 
S_U_N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,778
Thanked: 375 Times
Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land!! Is It Worth It?

After good posts from noopster and vb-san, I was almost prepared to fly to Singapore (but then the guns and killings got in the middle of my dreams).

So, I will try and bring this back to the topic.
Let those who wish to migrate or work out of India for some time, do so.

The basic thought that comes to many is "grass is always green on the other side".
So, we will overlook limitations or inconveniences that we come across in our pursuit of happiness and justify our decision to leave the motherland and stay elsewhere.



Quote:
Originally Posted by gauravdgr8 View Post
....

That totals to $7100 a month.
I am not sure if you factored in the income tax part in those calculations.
From the SGD3000 saved, was SGD1000-1500 deducted as tax.
In that case, remainder is less than SGD2000, and would make this whole exercise futile in mind if my objective is to make money and come back.

I assume that was not the case though.
S_U_N is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
From"Aadab & Bagunnava" Land to Land of "Khammaghani"(Hyd to Rajasthan by M800) ranjitp1 Travelogues 104 2nd August 2016 15:17
Sandakphu (erstwhile land of Land Rovers) reloaded! 1100D Travelogues 30 13th October 2015 17:53
Toyota Land Cruiser 2004 Worth? vishnugnair Shifting gears 24 5th May 2004 04:41


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 17:58.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks