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Old 8th April 2013, 00:49   #496
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My dear man, I totally understand your points and really feel that all your points hold weight but if I may put my points as someone who has lived in the UK for the better part of 9 years, the grass always is greener on the other side.
Just to add my two cents. How do you compare public services and their availability for an ordinary citizen between India and UK or for that matter any other developed country. I am sure most people will agree that all social benefits and public services in India suck. Try getting anything done at a government office here and then compare it with the developed world.

People here are actually afraid of reaching out to the guardians of society whereas it is quite the opposite in the developed world.

Thought I will add this angle of public services and social security into this discussion too. This is an important part of the overall equation too.

Another thing is the unimaginable competition for growing kids. Today 14 lakh (1.4 Million) kids appeared for the AIEEE entrance exam for a total of 25000 engineering seats across the country.

Last edited by Technocrat : 8th April 2013 at 23:40. Reason: Please avoid quoting alarge post entirely as it causes inconvenience to our mobile readers, thanks
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Old 8th April 2013, 01:40   #497
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Originally Posted by Traveler View Post

Just to add my two cents. How do you compare public services and their availability for an ordinary citizen between India and UK or for that matter any other developed country. I am sure most people will agree that all social benefits and public services in India suck. Try getting anything done at a government office here and then compare it with the developed world.

People here are actually afraid of reaching out to the guardians of society whereas it is quite the opposite in the developed world.

Thought I will add this angle of public services and social security into this discussion too. This is an important part of the overall equation too.

Another thing is the unimaginable competition for growing kids. Today 14 lakh (1.4 Million) kids appeared for the AIEEE entrance exam for a total of 25000 engineering seats across the country.
Adding my 2 cents here. I have stayed in Belgium & US for an year each and currently in the UK from the past 6 months. With my experience I can say the quality of life in these countries is much better than India, even though it maybe expensive to live, the facilities (transport, medical services, human value) compensate that. If both husband & wife are working then you are assured of a better & easy.
I categorize people into two groups, those who only think of saving money at onsite and those who mix into the local life style. The people who tend to save often criticize about life abroad and are generally not happy. In the end as most of them have said it is an individual thing. [I am saying this on my personal experience and not to demean anyone. I myself have been in the 2 categories]
Having said all this, I have always returned to India after an year and I have no logical reason for that.
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Old 8th April 2013, 02:13   #498
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Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land! Worth it?

There is a presumption in debates/discussions like this is that you emigrate because you want to earn money. While it may be true for a lot, its not what everyone emigrating is looking for.
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Old 8th April 2013, 06:15   #499
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What's your point? we are talking about emigration to another country and AFAIK emigration programs are run by the respective governments to fulfil their vacancies as well as invite people to contribute in and develop their economy.
My point was in response to some of the earlier posts which seemed to mention issues like acceptance, racism, glass ceiling etc. Just bringing a contrarian perspective in, since it seemed relevant.
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Old 8th April 2013, 14:57   #500
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I have working friends too here in Gurgaon, couples under 30 or thereabouts and netting an annual income (husband + wife) of around 20 to 30 lakh per household and they are living the KING life, going out, spending on clothes, new phones, great cars and in the end they manage to save as well. That kind of Salary in the UK wont get you India style enjoyment.
You are talking about a very well paid couple then (30 lakhs per annum, or 15 lakhs per person is a way above average income in India, even in the upper layers you are talking about the top 20% or so of employees). If the same couple were working at reasonably abover average salary in say Australia, they'd be earning arnd $250k between the two ofthem. Thats a massive income..a 3 series BMW would cost about a 5th of that! I reckon they'd be living life king sized there too.
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Old 8th April 2013, 20:42   #501
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You are talking about a very well paid couple then (30 lakhs per annum, or 15 lakhs per person is a way above average income in India, even in the upper layers you are talking about the top 20% or so of employees). If the same couple were working at reasonably abover average salary in say Australia, they'd be earning arnd $250k between the two ofthem. Thats a massive income..a 3 series BMW would cost about a 5th of that! I reckon they'd be living life king sized there too.
Not as easy as you think. The taxes can be quite heavy on the pocket.

But over a period of time a family can definitely start enjoying their lives a bit, only if the salary is near what you mentioned though.
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Old 8th April 2013, 21:46   #502
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I stay in an apartment here and i have had the following replaced..

Cost to me: a big ZERO! All covered by the apartment association.
And the best thing. I didnt need to be at home for them to carry out the work. I gave them permission to carry out the work in my absence and when i came back from work, it was done!! Of course, not a thing lifted, which hellmet has talked about.

But yes, if you stay in your own house, then calling a plumber or an electrician is an expensive option. And that is why being more hands on is the sensible thing to do in this country.

Many cities have metered parking in the downtown area. But guess what! They also become free over weekends!!

I'll tell you about my experience in New York City. I went there with my wife and two kids because we wanted to see the city. We had a double stroller and many subway stations didnt have elevators. There was not a single staircase where people did not come forward to help take the stroller up or down the stairs, with both kids asleep in it!!

And here, people still leave their seats in subways and buses when they see an old person or a parent (man or woman) with a kid.

Of course its not all rosy and all. A friend of mine got screamed at by a homeless man because he passed by him too closely. I think the homeless guy took it as home invasion. LOL.
Just as you are covered by apartment association, there is HOA (Home Owner's Association) fees when getting a house. Most of the time, they cover these repairs and if not, they charge minimum prices since it is covered in HOA fees.

If you are not a part of HOA and you own the house outside community, you can usually find very good plumbers, electrician for a decent price. If you pay cash, they lower the price a lot. My friend who owns a house had his heater repaired similarly when he was unable to do it on his own. Then as you suggested there are some stuff which can be done easily while watching a youtube video tutorial and help from friends or neighbors.

Compared to yours, my experience has been very small, non-existent but i do remember an incident. I was carrying lots of trash to throw in bin outside of house, on the way, i dropped couple of things, a lady was walking behind me, picked it up, came to me, took some things off me and accompanied me to the garbage bin to throw it. I don't think i have experienced something similar in India.

I always vacant my seat if i find any elderly or pregnant lady. I use to do it in India and still do it here.

There are some disadvantage or risks too. My friend was returning from work on a bicycle, a group of drunks in car threw a beer bottle at him, luckily it hit on his backpack and it didn't break on him else it would be very bad.

We also have been shouted at by lots of homeless people. A couple of times, drunk homeless people have told me to go back to my country and stop taking over USA.


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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
I haven't visited malls in New York City, but they probably will have paid parking.

And even in other cities in the West Coast, some malls in the downtown area have paid parking (partly compensated by validation). But yeah, other than downtown parking is usually free and abundant.
There is a big Macy's store in manhattan near Empire State Building. They had free parking in 2009 the last time i visited NY. I don't know if it has changed.

I can say for San Francisco that Union square has metered and free parking around it. You just have to walk a block. Similarly, in downtown of Sacramento, you can shop and have the parking validated or pay by the hour. They have macy's and couple of stores who validate it irrespective of whether you buy or not.

In LA, there is a popular place called The Grove which is near Farmer's market. They do have paid parking but its like $1.50 for an hour or so. If you watch a movie there, its free IIRC.
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Old 8th April 2013, 22:08   #503
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Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land! Worth it?

Guys, one quick question.

My organization is seriously thinking of filing for L-1 visas for employees who have completed 5 years of service.

So my question is what should be the minimum expected salary in the US for someone who has at CTC of 25 to 30 lakhs INR? And as one needs to enter into lease agreements for a rented house for a minimum of one year in the US, is there any exit option if one has to return to India after, say 6 months?

Last edited by vnabhi : 8th April 2013 at 22:09.
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Old 8th April 2013, 22:16   #504
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And as one needs to enter into lease agreements for a rented house for a minimum of one year in the US,

There is no such need. You can get into 6 month leases - may be a little more expensive than a 9 month or a 12 month lease for the same place. Anyway, if you have break a lease - the terms are usually spelt out in the agreement. Sometimes it's a 1-2 month rent penalty or something like that. However, L-1 is a transfer of employee VISA - why would you use that for someone who is going to return in 6 months?
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Old 8th April 2013, 22:21   #505
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There is no such need. You can get into 6 month leases - may be a little more expensive than a 9 month or a 12 month lease for the same place. Anyway, if you have break a lease - the terms are usually spelt out in the agreement. Sometimes it's a 1-2 month rent penalty or something like that. However, L-1 is a transfer of employee VISA - why would you use that for someone who is going to return in 6 months?
Thanks for the clarifications on lease.

As regards duration of stay, it looks like most business visas are given a stay of 3 months per visit, and rarely 6 months. So the company feels it is better to go the L-1 way. The company, though very large, does not seem to have much experience in filing for L-1 visas. Perhaps it is some kind of retention strategy.
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Old 8th April 2013, 22:23   #506
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Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
Guys, one quick question.

My organization is seriously thinking of filing for L-1 visas for employees who have completed 5 years of service.

So my question is what should be the minimum expected salary in the US for someone who has at CTC of 25 to 30 lakhs INR? And as one needs to enter into lease agreements for a rented house for a minimum of one year in the US, is there any exit option if one has to return to India after, say 6 months?
Depends a lot on the location. There is huge difference in cost of living between say Bay Area, CA and somewhere in Texas for example. The state taxes (income tax, sales tax etc) are also different from state to state.

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Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post

As regards duration of stay, it looks like most business visas are given a stay of 3 months per visit, and rarely 6 months. So the company feels it is better to go the L-1 way. The company, though very large, does not seem to have much experience in filing for L-1 visas. Perhaps it is some kind of retention strategy.
You _can_ stay for 6 months on Business visa too but it's not recommended. You have to have a very good reason to stay in US for 6 months just on business visit (meeting colleagues, customers, attending conferences etc) without doing any actual work.

On the other side, filing L1 visa is lot more complicated than B1. L1 is a very special category which requires building a unique case for you to work in the US.

Last edited by Gandhi : 8th April 2013 at 22:26.
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Old 8th April 2013, 22:27   #507
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Depends a lot on the location. There is huge difference in cost of living between say Bay Area, CA and somewhere in Texas for example. The state taxes (income tax, sales tax etc) are also different from state to state.
Thanks. I do know about tax concessions in Texas and Delaware. In the worst case scenario, suppose one gets a Bay Area posting. What is the equivalent of 25 to 30 lacs INR CTC?

As regards L1, you are right. But most of our employees have unique skills that justify their presence in the US. And we work in a company that always figures in the Fortune 15 list.

Last edited by vnabhi : 8th April 2013 at 22:30.
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Old 8th April 2013, 22:31   #508
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Default Re: Emigrating to a Foreign Land! Worth it?

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Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
Guys, one quick question.

My organization is seriously thinking of filing for L-1 visas for employees who have completed 5 years of service.

So my question is what should be the minimum expected salary in the US for someone who has at CTC of 25 to 30 lakhs INR? And as one needs to enter into lease agreements for a rented house for a minimum of one year in the US, is there any exit option if one has to return to India after, say 6 months?
It's almost impossible for an L-1 visa holder to switch jobs, so you can not really compare it with the market rate. It all depends upon how much s/he is willing to travel abroad for, comparing with Indian salary.

You can easily get short term leases or montly rates at hotels. Extended stay used to give monthly rates of about 500-600 USD here, room service only weekly I think.
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Old 8th April 2013, 22:38   #509
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It's almost impossible for an L-1 visa holder to switch jobs, so you can not really compare it with the market rate. It all depends upon how much s/he is willing to travel abroad for, comparing with Indian salary.

You can easily get short term leases or montly rates at hotels. Extended stay used to give monthly rates of about 500-600 USD here, room service only weekly I think.
Thanks. Let us take 2 years in Bay Area as an assumption. What should be the equivalent salary in USD for 25 to 30 lakhs INR?
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Old 8th April 2013, 22:42   #510
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Thanks. I do know about tax concessions in Texas and Delaware. In the worst case scenario, suppose one gets a Bay Area posting. What is the equivalent of 25 to 30 lacs INR CTC?
That's a difficult question to answer. But I would say comparable salary in Bay area would be close to 140k USD.

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It's almost impossible for an L-1 visa holder to switch jobs, so you can not really compare it with the market rate. It all depends upon how much s/he is willing to travel abroad for, comparing with Indian salary.
One HUGE advantage of L1 visa people tend to ignore is the L2 visa for spouse. Spouse on L2 visa can work for _any_ employer in the US once (s)he gets EAD from USCIS. Getting an EAD hardly takes 4-5 weeks once you get SSN.

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You can easily get short term leases or montly rates at hotels. Extended stay used to give monthly rates of about 500-600 USD here, room service only weekly I think.
You can't be serious about this. We stayed in (outside) Baltimore Extended Stay america in early 2011 for couple months while my wife was on business trip there. We paid 1200 USD/month there. I checked with them when we moved to Bay Area last year for our initial accommodation and best rate I could get was 70 USD/day if we stay for more than 3 weeks (after corporate discount).

Last edited by Gandhi : 8th April 2013 at 22:45.
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