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Old 10th April 2013, 14:01   #541
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I recently came across this thread. I guess I can throw light on some of these notions. I came to US quite young, just out of college and spent 12 years there before moving back to India. 5 years in graduate school and 7 years working after that. So I have seen US when I was barely above poverty line and when I was making decent money. By most definition by other posters we should be living an emperor size life in India as we are DINK couples earning once again decent money by Indian standards. Yet I don't think our life has really improved much. In reality if you consider the lack of civil amenities, I would say life in India is far worse.

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Originally Posted by getsurya View Post
1. The creature comforts you can afford in India can never be done in USA
Not true. You definitely have lot more creature comforts in US. When I was a graduate student, I was paid $1400 after tax. I lived in La Jolla, which is one of the most expensive small town in US. So after splitting rent, I had barely $600 in hand. I was able to buy a used car after one summer internship. I used to travel to India every year and traveled to many places in US and Canada. I didn't live a luxurious life but I had nothing to complain. Six months before I graduated, I got married and my wife didn't start her graduate school. Then I actually felt the pinch as I had to move to Family Student housing and the expenses doubled. I was close to spending my then earned $1500 pm.
One gets paid quite decently if you have higher degrees in US and my life became lot better then. Now, I was able to buy an entry level luxury sedan, started to live in an upscale housing, able to afford 1-2 foreign trips an year, eat out more, live in upscale hotels etc. Yes, we were not able to afford maids, drivers, cooks etc but we didn't need them either even though both were working. In India maid is much needed because of the dust and pollution in the air, otherwise we can still manage without a maid. Cook is needed because both of us spend lot of time commuting may be 10 Kms.
I hardly thought doing the regular work was a monotonous chore because that is what I was trained to do since I left home at 17. We later hired a maid who would come every alternate week for 3 hours to clean in US. Lot of my friends in US have cooks who come to cook twice a week. No one I know ever used a driver.

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Originally Posted by getsurya View Post
3. Life in US has no variety and is laden with monotony. It is the same Burger King/KFC/Starbucks etc across the country even when you drive long. In India, drop of every 70 miles I can look for 'newness' in culture, food and as basic as 'chai' variety on the road.
Absolutely not true. US as well as most parts of Europe have probably the best collection of International restaurants. Even small towns in US have good restaurant. In principle we never went to Burger King/KFC/McD etc when we traveled. When my wife was living in Washington, DC it was almost a case of choosing a country out of atlas and eating that cuisine. If you think US has no diversity then you have absolutely not traveled or traveled to wrong places. US is just a wildcard here, it is true for most of Europe, Australia, NZ, North America etc.

As an anecdote, few years back my wife and I were exploring interior Alaska and the came upon a bar which is more or less a hunting lodge. There were atleast 10-15 rifles kept in the gun rack outside the bar. I guess many of the patrons probably saw Indians for the first time in their life. Yet it was quite an enjoyable evening when they were trying to figure what we can eat. Whether we should try the moose, caribou or the chicken !! I am note sure how one can say this is monotonous experience. This is not an one-off incident. We had lot of different experiences. One has to keep their mind open and be accommodating to absorb a different culture.

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4. What ever level/money you earn in USA, does not have any correlation to your social status( in most cases) as nobody cares!
Does not matter, I will probably choose such a society over what we have in India where power and money corrupts every thing. As I said most of my time in US, we spent in or close to University campus as most of the time one of us was a graduate student. It does not get more egalitarian than a bunch of graduate students who have different life goals, back ground, nationalities etc.

You would be surprised if you actually spend time with American families that how much they value family. Yes there are lot more broken homes compared to India but I found nothing different between us and American families with similar backgrounds.

Last edited by acurafan : 10th April 2013 at 14:08.
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Old 10th April 2013, 14:14   #542
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I agree with you acurafan. Myself having spent 12 years ( ) in the U.S and back in India. I do miss so many good things that you could do in U.S being among the commoners. There was no dearth for summer or winter activities (trek, ski, snow board etc) all without feeling that you were on vacation. It could be a very frequent activity.

Most people dont go out and mingle with American families. Being social is all about eating out in other Indian friend's place.

Coming to cuisine especially for South Indian fast food items, you do miss them whenever you feel like having them whereever you are. But back home, there is not much to complain on the personal and family front. Its gotten better. If only we could improve on other things :(
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Old 10th April 2013, 14:14   #543
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Originally Posted by acurafan View Post
Cook is needed because both of us spend lot of time commuting may be 10 Kms.
Not nitpicking your post, but how long does a 10km commute take in the US? 10 mins or say 20 mins max?

Reason for my question is that i drive 60 kms a day and spend around 3.5 hours on the road (30 kms one way - around 1.5 hours in the morning and around 2 hours in the evening).

I was always under the impression that commuting in the US is a breeze since traffic is light, except for peak rush hours in big cities. My clients always used to be shell shocked when they learnt about how much time it took for us to travel from point A to point B here in India.
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Old 10th April 2013, 14:40   #544
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Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
Are you talking about mediclaim insurance paid by employers here? Otherwise in terms of what salaries we get, healthcare is quite expensive in India too.

I agree with your point about asset creation. However, in terms of emigration someone moving abroad will invest accordingly though it may not necessarily be in real estate. It is possible to live abroad and invest here quite easily these days.
getsurya put a salary level of 1.5 lacs to support his points. I was adding an additional facet to his points. If I have to elaborate further, I'd say that level and higher.
As far as asset creation goes, it's an individual thing but many folks aren't disciplined and sometimes moving abroad entails expenses - travel, car, rent and other such things that you may not have to incur living at home.

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Don't worry the situation is fast becoming as worse here in India, unless you plan to visit the Govt hospitals.

Any idea how much is the cost of treatment for common issues like heart problems, diabetes, urinary/kidney problem, neuro issues?

In fact what about road accident emergency situations?
Cost of ICUs in a large hospital in India for a week (quite typical) is quite in-affordable unless you have sufficient medical cover.

Of course I am not talking about the people who are earning global salaries in India. Nothing in India is expensive in that case.

The healthcare cost in India appears deceptively cheap only because the cost of living / standard of living here is low compared to US/EU. We must also check the earning power of people in India compared to US/EU
Many people on this forum miss the woods for the trees and shoot off msgs without thinking.

To answer your specific questions - do I know the cost of treatment in India? Yes and the U.S. as well to boot. For example, heart valve replacement surgery in India at a top hospital for end-to-end treatment - $5,000. In the U.S., without insurance? $600,000. Which is cheaper? For most Indians $5,000 is way too expensive but I did preface my earlier post by saying "if you earn well in India."

Your question about ICU costs will also read similar to the previous paragraph and I don't want to repeat myself. But do read the Time magazine link I posted.

Your third point about global salaries. I was talking about people who earn well in India, maybe not global salaries but well paid, which makes your counterpoint moot. These are likely to be the people who may consider moving abroad for work - the sort who started this thread.
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Old 10th April 2013, 14:59   #545
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Originally Posted by n_aditya View Post
Not nitpicking your post, but how long does a 10km commute take in the US? 10 mins or say 20 mins max?

.
This is 10 Kms in Bangalore, takes me close to 45 mins to an hour. I used to commute 45 miles one way in US which used to take the same time.
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Old 10th April 2013, 16:24   #546
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Originally Posted by n_aditya View Post
Not nitpicking your post, but how long does a 10km commute take in the US? 10 mins or say 20 mins max?
I think he intended to say that he commutes fro 10km one way in India, and spends a lot of time/ effort on the commute. Hence he needs a cook here.

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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
To answer your specific questions - do I know the cost of treatment in India? Yes and the U.S. as well to boot. For example, heart valve replacement surgery in India at a top hospital for end-to-end treatment - $5,000. In the U.S., without insurance? $600,000. Which is cheaper? For most Indians $5,000 is way too expensive but I did preface my earlier post by saying "if you earn well in India."
Considering the quality of life here and the various shockers we get everyday in daily life, I would say we end up needing medical treatment more often! I am not sure of the life expectancy in US, but when I moved back from Europe to India, my average life expectancy dropped by 19 years!!

Last edited by selfdrive : 10th April 2013 at 16:28.
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Old 10th April 2013, 20:38   #547
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If you think US has no diversity then you have absolutely not traveled or traveled to wrong places
vivekiny2k acurafan:

Firstly, I have said that it is my opinion and we can agree to differ. No harm in that!

I have traveled to US enough number of times in last 15 years, that I carry three passports for the stamps. Before that I have traveled to Europe for 8 long years and have lived there.

I also never said US has no diversity, US offers monotony as a majority. You have to search and find the 'uniqueness' unlike India was my comparision point.

In my "personal view", I for sure feel that living in US is a definite compromise after a point of time and life(does not depend on how much money you are making in US!). Quality of life is better in USA, however 'lifestyle quotient' is much better in India. I hope this adds to clarity.

I rest my case and I respect your opinions. I have my learnings from life where I cannot compromise as a second rated citizen which you ALWAYS shall be any country other than your country of birth. Good luck
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Old 10th April 2013, 21:25   #548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n_aditya View Post
Not nitpicking your post, but how long does a 10km commute take in the US? 10 mins or say 20 mins max?

Reason for my question is that i drive 60 kms a day and spend around 3.5 hours on the road (30 kms one way - around 1.5 hours in the morning and around 2 hours in the evening).

I was always under the impression that commuting in the US is a breeze since traffic is light, except for peak rush hours in big cities. My clients always used to be shell shocked when they learnt about how much time it took for us to travel from point A to point B here in India.
I have a 15 mile (24 kms) commute one way. It takes me 25-30 mins to reach to office. The good thing is, mine is a reverse commute during peak hour so its takes less time. If it was a normal commute during peak hour, i can easily say 1 hour or more as traffic on other sides barely move while i am driving on the other side and i observe.

Out of those 15 miles, 7 mile is Freeway - speeds around 65-75 mph and 9 miles of city - speeds around 35-45mph. On a good day, when the traffic signals are all green, it takes 20-25 mins and on a bad day with all red lights, it takes 30 mins.

Last edited by chevelle : 10th April 2013 at 21:29.
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Old 10th April 2013, 21:30   #549
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I rest my case and I respect your opinions. I have my learnings from life where I cannot compromise as a second rated citizen which you ALWAYS shall be any country other than your country of birth. Good luck
By First class, you mean the one who has to pay to file a police compliant or to get something as basic as a birth/marriage certificate?

Or you mean someone who can be arrested/beaten up/harassed at will by the local police/politicos/goons?
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Old 10th April 2013, 21:40   #550
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I rest my case and I respect your opinions. I have my learnings from life where I cannot compromise as a second rated citizen which you ALWAYS shall be any country other than your country of birth. Good luck
I'm curious to know what do you mean by second rated citizen. Is it the lack of ability to vote in the country or something else?
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Old 10th April 2013, 21:45   #551
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Quote:
By First class, you mean the one who has to pay to file a police compliant or to get something as basic as a birth/marriage certificate?

Or you mean someone who can be arrested/beaten up/harassed at will by the local police/politicos/goons?

I'm curious to know what do you mean by second rated citizen. Is it the lack of ability to vote in the country or something else?
Dear Gandhi,

We can never become an American in America, at the best, we can try to become an Indian settled in America(is what we are identified as!!).

Mohit, I request you to respect others opinion on these forums and I have stated my opinions, you are free to do so for yours.
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Old 10th April 2013, 21:50   #552
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Mohit, I request you to respect others opinion on these forums and I have stated my opinions, you are free to do so for yours.
I absolutely do! But I do take offence to being called second class without a proper definition being given to first class. I do need to know what I am missing na !
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Old 10th April 2013, 22:00   #553
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Dear Gandhi,

We can never become an American in America, at the best, we can try to become an Indian settled in America(is what we are identified as!!).

Mohit, I request you to respect others opinion on these forums and I have stated my opinions, you are free to do so for yours.
1.7% of US population is Native Americans as of 2010. The rest are all immigrants who came to USA once upon a time. Once you get a citizenship, you are as much an American as your next door neighbor who is probably from Japan or Russia or India or a Native American.

But till then, you will be an Alien or non-immigrant in USA not a Second Rated Citizen. Because as a Citizen (First rated or Second Rated) one can vote, we cannot.

And Mohit just stated his opinion like you did yours. Why take offense in that? He does make a very valid point.

Last edited by chevelle : 10th April 2013 at 22:03.
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Old 10th April 2013, 22:27   #554
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Why take offense in that? He does make a very valid point.
Hi Chevelle,

I am not taking offense, all I am saying is that the home country can never be replaced by any others- in my humble opinion.

You explained it well for the part and also as I said earlier, we will never become Americans but will be either Indian Americans or American Indians.

If I have hurt anybody's feelings, that was not the idea. I shared my thoughts and opinions, which will hold TRUE to me, might not for some of you. Thanks for your understanding!
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Old 10th April 2013, 22:32   #555
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Originally Posted by akas_chauhan View Post
I think you were located somewhere in Bannerghatta Road.
When did you relocate?
Yes I was staying near Meenakshi Temple and my office was in Manyata. I moved to US in June last year.

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I have my learnings from life where I cannot compromise as a second rated citizen which you ALWAYS shall be any country other than your country of birth.
I could never grasp this concept of being a "second rated citizen" in US. What exactly does it entail? Like Mohit and Gandhi, I would also like to understand this term as it applies here.

The irony is that i could identify with this term very well when i was in India!

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Because as a Citizen (First rated or Second Rated) one can vote, we cannot.
Here in NH you can even buy a gun even if you are not a citizen!!
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