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Old 8th June 2010, 00:17   #16
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
How much more do you need to know. What you feel if this had been a hospital, and the surgeons had done just that? Hey, it was only some corners cut, never mind being a cripple?
Didn't you know? That's how it works --- to limit liability.
I don't know Bhopal, but if I came from there, I'd be very upset to hear stuff like that. What do you think the citizens have been doing these last twenty-plus years? I need better reasons not to bash America: much better reasons.
It does happen in hospitals..that's when docs and surgeons get sued and sent to jail or forced to pay compensation. Look, I'm not absolving UC of any guilt here. They should be brought to account. At the same time you can't just bash America because UC is an American company. They don't represent America as a whole...just the usual corporate greed every big company has around the world. It is a terrible tragedy that 20,000 people lost their lives and scores more effected :(, but unless it is proven that the former chairman of UC deliberately knew and ordered the cost cutting, then putting him on trial now really serves no purpose. What should be done is to prevent things like thos from happening in the future. Today's verdict should have been a lot stronger though.
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Old 8th June 2010, 00:26   #17
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At the same time you can't just bash America because UC is an American company
Actually, nobody did yet. The reason to Bash America, as a state, is that they allowed the American boss of Union Carbide India to be free. That is eminently bashable. No better than giving sanctuary to war criminals.
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but unless it is proven that the former chairman of UC deliberately knew and ordered the cost cutting, then putting him on trial now really serves no purpose
That is the purpose of a trial.
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What should be done is to prevent things like thos from happening in the future.
And how might you do that? Severely punishing those who transgress, might be a good start, rather than sending out the message not to bother because it's all fairly trivial in the end.

Another good start would be not introducing legislation that specifically limits the liability of foreign suppliers --- which is what is happening with America and nuclear energy. Sorry, if you happen to be a bit sensitive about America, but I'm a bit sensitive about America using India as a doormat.

(and hey, I'm not even Indian!)
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Old 8th June 2010, 01:59   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Actually, nobody did yet. The reason to Bash America, as a state, is that they allowed the American boss of Union Carbide India to be free. That is eminently bashable. No better than giving sanctuary to war criminals.
That is the purpose of a trial.
And how might you do that? Severely punishing those who transgress, might be a good start, rather than sending out the message not to bother because it's all fairly trivial in the end.

Another good start would be not introducing legislation that specifically limits the liability of foreign suppliers --- which is what is happening with America and nuclear energy. Sorry, if you happen to be a bit sensitive about America, but I'm a bit sensitive about America using India as a doormat.

(and hey, I'm not even Indian!)
They should have been punished in 1984, when all of this happened. Well im American, so im obviously going to be sensitive. I think he was the chairman of Union Carbide as a whole, not the India arm. As for the trial, the Indian executives would have or wouldnt have revealed the chairman's complicity in the crime. Does the Indian legal system have plea bargains? I dont know, we dont know what went on in that courtroom. BTW, the wikipedia article has some great insight:

Bhopal disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 8th June 2010, 02:06   #19
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In addition:

"March 1986 saw Union Carbide propose a settlement figure, endorsed by plaintiffs' US attorneys, of $350 million that would, according to the company, "generate a fund for Bhopal victims of between $500600 million over 20 years". In May, litigation was transferred from the US to Indian courts by US District Court Judge. Following an appeal of this decision, the US Court of Appeals affirmed the transfer, judging, in January 1987, that UCIL was a "separate entity, owned, managed and operated exclusively by Indian citizens in India".[50] The judge in the US granted Carbide's forum request, thus moving the case to India. This meant that, under US federal law, the company had to submit to Indian jurisdiction."

so now the Indian Justice System is wholly responsible for the case..
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Old 8th June 2010, 02:29   #20
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They should have been punished in 1984
Of course you are right about that. It is nothing short of ridiculous to have such a case take decades in the courts.
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Old 8th June 2010, 06:21   #21
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Originally Posted by sidd25 View Post
I wonder what would US had done if some Indians were responsible for an event of this big magnitude in USA.

What are your thoughts on this Verdict TBHPians?
Ammm..since the OP has talked about the USA, let me bring to everyone's notice that the Obama administration is not doing a good job as far as the Mexican Gulf oil spill is concerned. This is affecting sea life big time, and will sooner or later affect humans with water pollution and some air and water bourne diseases.

But, sir is busy gunning down Iraqi citizens and sending troops to Afghanistan. (This is what I said aloud in a restaurant to everyone's amusement) If you don't know it this is a huge huge issue here and everyone from the common man to some of the Democrats are unimpressed and want results and not 3 piece suit visits to affected areas.

Point is everyone screws up some or the other time.

Ohh this does not mean it should happen in India. A-A no way sir. You take away the bribing babus and under table business and we have everything perfect in our country.

My sincere condolances those who are affected due to no fault of theirs.

Last edited by prince_pervez : 8th June 2010 at 06:27.
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Old 8th June 2010, 08:44   #22
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The oil spill is a big mess and the Obama admin is trying to help in any way it can but for now they are letting BP exhaust all options and then they will step on fully. What is being done is to provide aid money and opening a criminal case in Federal court. The Coast Guard is engaged in the cleanup effort though.

The US government's response to the oil spill can be found here: Deepwater BP Oil Spill | The White House

Last edited by Rehaan : 9th June 2010 at 11:10. Reason: Merging
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Old 8th June 2010, 10:24   #23
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I was barely 6 Yrs old then., But I still remember a scene which probably will never go out of my mind.
There is one Jai Prakash Hospital ( 1250 Hospital) in Bhopal having a huge compound.
I went there with my Father to see someone who suffered the Gas. And the scene there was nothing less then a devastation. thousands of Dead Bodies were lying in that ground covered with different colored sheets. Actually Govt collected all the bodies which they thought were dead. And in that Ground, few people were getting conscious and were seeing bodies all around.

Looking and feeling all this, I think this Verdict is BIGGEST SHAME..

Last edited by sidd25 : 8th June 2010 at 10:26.
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Old 8th June 2010, 10:44   #24
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This is our judiciary, so congrats! we are still maintaining the class even in the 21st century

With all due sympathies to the dead and those who suffered, it's just a plain case of mismanagement from the Indian government. I personally feel going by the articles on this incident that there is a big probability that it was sabotage.

But still if the govt hadn't conspired the money could have been well spent on the relief of the really affected people. But c'mon, how can we let that happen, we are Indians, aren't we?

Add to that the stupidity of the media.
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Old 8th June 2010, 10:48   #25
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CBI reports claimed that All this happened due to lack of maintenance at the plant.
But the people walked away with just 2 yrs of imprisonment and were free within minutes on bail.
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Old 8th June 2010, 11:03   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidd25 View Post
I wonder what would US had done if some Indians were responsible for an event of this big magnitude in USA.
I might be sounding as I am siding the corporates here but frankly we need to give them a chance as its very natural for one to think the corporates are at fault.

1. About the question @sidd25 raised what do you mean by US company, UCIL is a company registered in India though fully owned by a US company.
See the Companies act requires that more than half of the board members should be Indians I am sure there would have been. These guys could have taken safety measures but they did not. Dont think the question of US itself comes into point.

2. As mentioned earlier, of the compensation given I am still not sure how much of it has ultimately gone to the public I am sure lots of Babus would have had the major chunk of relief that India has received.

3. Agreed its a US company why did the Indian govt allow them to have a company where the population was so nearby the company. Knowing what was being manufactured there. Any sane person should only have given the permission to set up a factory where there is no residence for atleast 10km radius from the factory. This is how it happens in countries like US.

4. One must say in India once a factory is started there are lots of illegal settlemenents/ tennements / shops near the factory why are we still having these sort of things happening.
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Old 8th June 2010, 11:10   #27
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Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post
I might be sounding as I am siding the corporates here but frankly we need to give them a chance as its very natural for one to think the corporates are at fault.

1. About the question @sidd25 raised what do you mean by US company, UCIL is a company registered in India though fully owned by a US company.
See the Companies act requires that more than half of the board members should be Indians I am sure there would have been. These guys could have taken safety measures but they did not. Dont think the question of US itself comes into point.

2. As mentioned earlier, of the compensation given I am still not sure how much of it has ultimately gone to the public I am sure lots of Babus would have had the major chunk of relief that India has received.


3. Agreed its a US company why did the Indian govt allow them to have a company where the population was so nearby the company. Knowing what was being manufactured there. Any sane person should only have given the permission to set up a factory where there is no residence for atleast 10km radius from the factory. This is how it happens in countries like US.

4. One must say in India once a factory is started there are lots of illegal settlemenents/ tennements / shops near the factory why are we still having these sort of things happening.
What I meant is If an Indian company was present in US, and it would have been involved in such a case.

Also, please go through this link
US rejects action against Union Carbide for Bhopal gas tragedy - dnaindia.com

US has rejected to take any action against UC.
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Old 8th June 2010, 11:48   #28
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First of all I have all sympathy for the victims. We must bear two things in mind:

1. The penalty imposed is about the maximum available in the sections charged.
2. The GOI sold out ages ago, when they did the deal with the US (maybe under White House Pressure).
3. I do not understand that how can the non-executive chairman be held guilty.
4. Why did it take 25 years for the court decision.

So the GoI is equally culpable, in being an accomplice to the sordid mess. Also, I heard on the box that when the CBI wanted to visit the Virginia Plant to see what safety measures were in place, first they were stalled, and then refused access.
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Old 8th June 2010, 13:47   #29
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There is simply no justification for this to take 25 !!#%&$!! years to get a judgement and just 2years at that who have got the bail the same evening as well. This is India and I am ashamed to admit that money is the only law here.
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Old 8th June 2010, 15:08   #30
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Were Mahindra's the Indian partner?

Keshub Mahindra is Chairman of M&M. He was then GM of Union Carbide India.
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