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Old 8th June 2010, 21:27   #46
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The tragedy happened in my school days. I was in my 7th or 8th std. I do not remember much or at that time everyone was just filled with sorrow. I didn't know anyone from there. But I did get an interesting new year card that year from my cousin which just said one thing. Say no to Everyready! I really do not know their product range. But since then I haven't bought a single Everready product.
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Old 8th June 2010, 21:29   #47
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Wars ??? Hello, those are straightforward and unwarranted invasion & destruction of two sovereign countries.

And regarding criticism, well it ain't really misplaced. Atleast in most cases.

Let's just assume Mr.Anderson was an Indian whose company located in the US caused a major disaster in which thousands of Americans died. And he promptly flees the US and lands in India. Does anyone think the US is going to let him be "absconding" and try to forget the national disaster and move on ? Fat chance.
Iraq and Afghanistan are very complex situations that cannot be reduced to mere media talking points. But that's not the topic of this thread
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Old 8th June 2010, 21:36   #48
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For the past two days that's all I've been hearing on tv. Whenever I talk politics with localites, most of the time the US gets assigned the blame for whatever it is, the whole furore from the left on the nuclear deal, and so on
As unfortunate as it is, this is true of many parts of the world. Mostly because anti American rhetoric makes for good politics. I wouldn't read too much into it if I were you.
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Old 8th June 2010, 21:40   #49
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Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
As unfortunate as it is, this is true of many parts of the world. Mostly because anti American rhetoric makes for good politics. I wouldn't read too much into it if I were you.
Yeah unfortunetly :(. Seems to be the same with a lot of guys on this board as well. Anyways, I still think everyone should read the wiki article..it's really quite comprehensive
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Old 8th June 2010, 23:49   #50
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Originally Posted by CaliAtenza
Iraq and Afghanistan are very complex situations that cannot be reduced to mere media talking points. But that's not the topic of this thread
Well, you started the topic of "wars" though it was noway related to this thread.

And regarding the "complex situations" part, maybe you could care to explain what was so complex in those situations. Especially in Iraq where the US was "supposedly" in search of WMD and all they could trace till date was maybe some camel-mounted grenade launchers. Oh, I forget. The oil.

Yeah, something that is missing in N.Korea, which enables Mr.Kim or whoever it is, to cock a snook at the world sitting on a pile of N-weapons, without getting the attention of the US of A.

Maybe you would change your idea about the "complexity of the situation" if you were one of the hundred thousands who lost family in those 2 countries due to the greed of a country and its bullying behaviour. Its easy to sit comfy in safe country and advice others to let be and move on or to say that things are complex.

It is good to love/honour/admire your country, but at the same time we need to understand that others also have the right to feel the same way about their country.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 8th June 2010 at 23:53.
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Old 9th June 2010, 00:02   #51
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the minimum that should have been levied was the death sentence to all concerned.
You mean like Keshub Mahindra should be hanged just because he was Chairman at that time? I don't think he had executive powers there.

The case should have been settled within 2-3 years. Justice delayed is justice denied.
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Old 9th June 2010, 00:11   #52
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to add to that and in a nutshell, there are a very few countries which are opposing policies or in the way of world domination and control of the one eyed eagle. These few countries have to be cleaned up and pawns have to be placed under one pretex or the other. Be it WMD or an insider implosive job or calling someone a terrorist nation just because they are opposing invasion of a country.
I wish everyone had a people's government where it would address issues like the Gas leakage on topic here and ilk.

Last edited by prince_pervez : 9th June 2010 at 00:13.
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Old 9th June 2010, 00:55   #53
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Did anybody go to prison in case of PG&E? In their case it wasn't an accident. They were knowingly poisoning the people for years.
who will benefit of anybody goes to prison.


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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
ok, I did some research. PG&E paid 333+296+20 milion
source Pacific Gas and Electric Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

UC paid 470 million.
Bhopal disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
after applying the PPP, this should be much higher.
I know its higher but in case of India. where did the money go.?

In US first 40 family that were with Erin and her firm did received 110 million. Thats a lot of money even by today's standard. and rest of 1100 got 295 mill. It was a direct class action suit. Unlike in India, whose politician may have got crores to give a safe passage to Anderson.
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Old 9th June 2010, 09:24   #54
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When you're operating a plant, safety should be your top priority. At least for us it is. For one of the largest and most horrific industrial disasters in history, I do not see why Union Carbide and its executives should not be held fully responsible for the incident and charged for a criminal offence for mass murder.

Doesn't matter what caused it, if it was a maintenance issue, then the maintenance manager or chief inspector might be held responsible. But in the end, it's always the plant manager/CEO's overall responsibility and he or she should be severely punished.

It shows how incompetent and corrupt India's Judiciary is and how much legal reform especially in corporate law needs to be achieved in order to make corporations accountable for their actions and misdeeds. When will we start to value human life in this country?

This was the first case study we came across in Engineering school and also when I first started working in a production facility and has served as a grim reminder for all of us that safety should not be ignored.

Last edited by sujaylahiri : 9th June 2010 at 09:33.
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Old 9th June 2010, 09:51   #55
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I think Bhopal is a case study almost everywhere.

More than anything else, it is our politicos to blame. There was pressure from the White House.

Who was the PM - Narasimha Rao. He was also the man who settled for 470 Million dollars.

Who was the CM of MP who let Anderson go on a mysterious phone call: Arjun Singh.

What was the maximum punishment on the sections applied: What has been given.

Who did not press on the extradition: Govt of India

Where were the NGOs and Moily all these years : Sleeping. Why did they not try and get the sections changed, or the law changed retrospectively (Has been done quite often).

So my view GoI shares as much of the blame as Union Carbide.

Last edited by sgiitk : 9th June 2010 at 09:53.
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Old 9th June 2010, 10:36   #56
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Most disappointing is the fact that safety is still an overhead for the companies.
Look at even a petrol pump down the road. What safety measures they have?
Just a small fire fighting device? God forbid , but what will happen if it catches fire?
These companies are making millions, but they can't spend few more bucks on safety measures.

In India price of lives is the cheapest thing you can get. I have actually seen all the horror in Bhopal, as I was living there at that time.

Forget GOI, US, UCIL, M.P Govt. My heart still cries when I remember those horrified scenes which have been written in my mind permanently.
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Old 9th June 2010, 10:37   #57
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Originally Posted by sujaylahiri View Post
When will we start to value human life in this country?
WHAT IS THAT?
that doesn't matter to US.
that's what many urban people and the Prime minister and Home minister of this country think.
All that we need is 8% growth and NOTHING ELSE MATTERS..
Example of this is people suggesting that punishing Anderson & Co will result in denting India's image of an investment destination.

Last edited by Daewood : 9th June 2010 at 10:39.
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Old 9th June 2010, 10:39   #58
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WHAT IS THAT?
that doesn't matter to US.
that's what many urban people and the Prime minister and Home minister of this country think.
All that we need is 8% growth and NOTHING ELSE MATTERS..
Example of this is people in this forum suggesting that punishing Anderson & Co will result in denting India's image of an investment destination.
@Daewood: I completely agree with you. Even peanuts are costlier then human lives in India.
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Old 9th June 2010, 10:54   #59
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Well, you started the topic of "wars" though it was noway related to this thread.

And regarding the "complex situations" part, maybe you could care to explain what was so complex in those situations. Especially in Iraq where the US was "supposedly" in search of WMD and all they could trace till date was maybe some camel-mounted grenade launchers. Oh, I forget. The oil.
Spot on. And the fact that Saddam dared to sell oil in any currency but USD. Iran also announced sometime back they will set up an oil bourse that will not trade in USD, so expect a search for WMD there as well in the future! If the threat materialises, the US bubble will burst, so they simply can't afford to keep away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I think Bhopal is a case study almost everywhere.

More than anything else, it is our politicos to blame. There was pressure from the White House.

Who was the PM - Narasimha Rao. He was also the man who settled for 470 Million dollars.

Who was the CM of MP who let Anderson go on a mysterious phone call: Arjun Singh.

What was the maximum punishment on the sections applied: What has been given.

Who did not press on the extradition: Govt of India

Where were the NGOs and Moily all these years : Sleeping. Why did they not try and get the sections changed, or the law changed retrospectively (Has been done quite often).

So my view GoI shares as much of the blame as Union Carbide.
Is it any wonder the Maoists are getting the support of the population (to whom the 8% growth rate has no meaning) and have taken strong roots in many states? They have simply lost faith in the state.

Last edited by Gansan : 9th June 2010 at 10:56.
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Old 9th June 2010, 12:51   #60
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The whole idea of the bill to restrict liability for nuclear accident in USA's favour is so ridiculous that it should have been laughed out of parliament. Governments should fall over this sort of thing. My true feeling about how India is relating to america would get me banned if I write it here, because how can it be said without foul language? It has gone beyond any sort of normal and polite language.

I am disgusted to see the reaction of USA to the judgements. It's like saying, sorry you had a cold, but its all over now, and don't expect us to buy you a box of tissues. As to safely harbouring, apparently in luxury, the prime accused in the matter, USA is no better than some of it's S. American neighbours. As I said before; they might as well harbour war criminals.

Every point made by sgiitk (Bhopal Gas tragedy Verdict - A Shame) is pertinent, but America cannot be left out of this. The company was American in all but paperwork.

Cannot India learn the lesson from being raped and pillaged and sucked dry by Britain and the East India Company? Why does it continue to lick the feet of those who not only want to do the same thing again, but will make the colonisers of the past look like petty amateurs.

At the moment, India has been woken up by this judgement. I am sure the politicians are just grateful that there is not election tomorrow. Please, India, stay awake, and remember this when the politicians come knocking next time around.

--- This has been a semi-political rant, and I guess I'll understand if the mods remove it. This is not just an Indian issue, it is a world issue, and there will be, I have no doubt, many millions of people all over the world (including USA, of course) who will be sharing the feelings of shock and horror.
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