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Old 1st July 2010, 17:54   #1
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Default It is time to put pressure on BP

BP still has got a stuck up attitude about the situation in the Golf of Mexico. I have just from Greenpeace sources heard that they are clueless, but continue to play a story to make themselves looking good. With my own efforts to bring a solution I can confirm the Greenpeace position.

The relief drillings, which BP puts their hope on have no guarantee of success and can take a much longer time than presently claimed.

BP staff is fooling themselves not realising that they are right now digging their grave. Industry experts predicting by now a possible bankruptcy of BP.

Solutions offered by engineers are disregarded on the grounds that no one is qualified, when the Horizon team evaluating the proposals isn't qualified either. The whole evaluation process is about as trustworthy as a letter box company.

I am not using BP ever again with such an attitude.

I hope nobody has got shares in BP as I wouldn't trust them to be worth anything by the end of the year.

I think it is time to avoid using BP to put the pressure on they need.
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Old 1st July 2010, 18:08   #2
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If it helps, here's what I think of it. If you are concerned about environmental damage, you should be stopping using all oils, not just BP.

The broken pipeline in gulf keeps spilling oil and engineers, BP owners, politicians, and the victims continue to tussle for the optimum solution.

But I see some really strange comments from some people, for example BP should be banned forever from drilling and things like that. It almost sounds like BP is the evil behind all of this. Well, that fact is most of us have a stake in BP, many of us work in BP, many of us have invested in BP (directly or indirectly) and almost all of us in America have been a customer of BP at some point of time when we drove into a BP gas station and filled up gas.

I think all of us are responsible for this disaster, we force companies to produce at lowest cost possible. today it's BP, tomorrow it can be shell, does it really matter? It's a game of cat and mouse. consumer demands stuff at lowest cost, businesses keep finding loopholes to evade costs and govt continues to put regulations in place to keep things straight. at some point some thing fail, and we as consumers need to take it as a risk. Of course, the business that made money all this while needs to compensate for the losses. I just think what would have happened if it as a small time oil firm or a co-op operating from Texas. There would be no money to compensate. Probably govt will jump in to help but not much.

If we really want to do something about it, we need to sit and think why we are burning 25% of total oil consumption around the world while having only 5% of population of the world. We are all responsible for this disaster, and this may not be the only one in our history. Clean energy is good concept, but reducing energy consumption is another point we need to look at.

And personally, I really miss the white beaches of destin, we have destroyed a part of paradise on earth.

Last edited by Samurai : 1st July 2010 at 18:47. Reason: blog copied
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Old 1st July 2010, 19:59   #3
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I found some very interesting read on the possible problem underlying BP. Could be true.
Starting in the late 1980s and the early 1990s, as part of the Thatcherite attacks on jobs and living standards, BP management began the process of dismantling its technical teams. (Forget the glossy green ads on the TV - a complete con.) Half the people I knew working on the exploration side lost their jobs over the next 10 years. Many others got out if they could before they were pushed out. World-class research teams were wrecked. The idea was that in future BP would contract in technical expertise as it was needed.
What BP management forgot was that if you contract in services you need somebody in the company who understands what you are buying. If you don't have that you will be served up rubbish. It was a standing joke when I worked for a services contractor that if it was a BP job (a) there’d be trouble, because they didn't know what they were talking about, and (b) you could get away with just about anything.
All of the oil companies over the last 20 years have operated as a gigantic cartel when it comes to dealing with their suppliers and have driven down prices - like the supermarkets driving down prices for their suppliers


Socialist Appeal - BP/Deepwater Horizon - one more legacy of Thatcherism
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Old 1st July 2010, 20:35   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
If it helps, here's what I think of it. If you are concerned about environmental damage, you should be stopping using all oils, not just BP.
Ideally, yes! However it would be a gradual transition towards cleaner alternatives. That transition will be further delayed by the almighty oil lobby since they have massive long term investments and interests. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem likely in our lifetime atleast.
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Old 1st July 2010, 20:37   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
If it helps, here's what I think of it. If you are concerned about environmental damage, you should be stopping using all oils, not just BP.

The broken pipeline in gulf keeps spilling oil and engineers, BP owners, politicians, and the victims continue to tussle for the optimum solution.

But I see some really strange comments from some people, for example BP should be banned forever from drilling and things like that. It almost sounds like BP is the evil behind all of this. Well, that fact is most of us have a stake in BP, many of us work in BP, many of us have invested in BP (directly or indirectly) and almost all of us in America have been a customer of BP at some point of time when we drove into a BP gas station and filled up gas.

I think all of us are responsible for this disaster, we force companies to produce at lowest cost possible. today it's BP, tomorrow it can be shell, does it really matter? It's a game of cat and mouse. consumer demands stuff at lowest cost, businesses keep finding loopholes to evade costs and govt continues to put regulations in place to keep things straight. at some point some thing fail, and we as consumers need to take it as a risk. Of course, the business that made money all this while needs to compensate for the losses. I just think what would have happened if it as a small time oil firm or a co-op operating from Texas. There would be no money to compensate. Probably govt will jump in to help but not much.

If we really want to do something about it, we need to sit and think why we are burning 25% of total oil consumption around the world while having only 5% of population of the world. We are all responsible for this disaster, and this may not be the only one in our history. Clean energy is good concept, but reducing energy consumption is another point we need to look at.

And personally, I really miss the white beaches of destin, we have destroyed a part of paradise on earth.
Many air travel companies around the World are putting marginally-safe amounts of fuel in their planes to cut costs and reduce weight of the plane. A couple of planes have almost run out of fuel towards the end of these journeys. So according to your logic, I assume the passengers must be held at fault for being thrifty and trying to spend less on flying during the economic recession? If people don't have decision-making power in the workings of a huge corporation, it's stupid to blame them when something goes wrong.
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Old 1st July 2010, 20:39   #6
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Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
If it helps, here's what I think of it. If you are concerned about environmental damage, you should be stopping using all oils, not just BP.

The broken pipeline in gulf keeps spilling oil and engineers, BP owners, politicians, and the victims continue to tussle for the optimum solution.

But I see some really strange comments from some people, for example BP should be banned forever from drilling and things like that. It almost sounds like BP is the evil behind all of this. Well, that fact is most of us have a stake in BP, many of us work in BP, many of us have invested in BP (directly or indirectly) and almost all of us in America have been a customer of BP at some point of time when we drove into a BP gas station and filled up gas.

I think all of us are responsible for this disaster, we force companies to produce at lowest cost possible. today it's BP, tomorrow it can be shell, does it really matter? It's a game of cat and mouse. consumer demands stuff at lowest cost, businesses keep finding loopholes to evade costs and govt continues to put regulations in place to keep things straight. at some point some thing fail, and we as consumers need to take it as a risk. Of course, the business that made money all this while needs to compensate for the losses. I just think what would have happened if it as a small time oil firm or a co-op operating from Texas. There would be no money to compensate. Probably govt will jump in to help but not much.

If we really want to do something about it, we need to sit and think why we are burning 25% of total oil consumption around the world while having only 5% of population of the world. We are all responsible for this disaster, and this may not be the only one in our history. Clean energy is good concept, but reducing energy consumption is another point we need to look at.

And personally, I really miss the white beaches of destin, we have destroyed a part of paradise on earth.
I am in the automotive field for over three decades. Part of my work is consultancy. Some of it is performance tuning. And another part is reducing the fuel consumption.

Another line I persue(d) is environmental issues.

I am not a person that wants to go out and say we should not use oil anymore. What I am talking about is that the airline should have emergency measures. And if the airline is not doing it then we shouldn't be passengers.

Accidents happen. This is inevitable in human nature. But what can be prevented is dealing with them in an ignorant and arrogant matter.

A couple of weeks before the Exxon Valdez desaster the the then CEO of Exxon was with the highest level of arrogance publicly trying to silence people critizising the saftey measures of Exxon in Alsaka. The piece of excrement (Ihave no other words for him) knew exactly that he was lying. Exxon paid a lot for it other than paying for the damage itself, although far too little.

The Brent Spa platform was only not sunk because the general public did avoid Shell till they decided to go a different route.

I had today a phone conversation with a higher level arrogant idiot of BP, whjich showed what they are: No more than liers.

Whether many of us have shares in BP or not, it does not justify such behaviour. Teeling us that we are driving down the prices doesn't hold water. Goldman Sachs is rather driving them up being one of a few main players to keep the high level.

It is now clear to me that the BP management neither is capable of dealing with the matter, nor were in the past interested to work on a solution nor are interested to spend the money to solve the issue via outside sources.

If many other industries would a act in a dark ages fashion like BP, BP wouldn't exist anymore because no plains would fly anymore because all planes would have fallen out of the sky by now. Every vessel would have sunk like the Titanic etc.

This is why I think BP must be stung harder that their staff gets a bit hot in their seats.
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Old 1st July 2010, 20:47   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post
I think all of us are responsible for this disaster, we force companies to produce at lowest cost possible. today it's BP, tomorrow it can be shell, does it really matter? It's a game of cat and mouse. consumer demands stuff at lowest cost, businesses keep finding loopholes to evade costs and govt continues to put regulations in place to keep things straight. at some point some thing fail, and we as consumers need to take it as a risk.
Appreciate it! Well written.

But the arguement is BP failed in safe operating procedures and disaster management. Even when this all started they left an impression on the people that they are not doing something about this or were too slow in taking any action. This is what is bothering people. They also have a counter which updates every day on the news channel which embarrasingly says 75th day and so on.

The scary part is some BP official came up to the dias and said
all the oil companies follow the same industry practices which BP follows.
So it could have been anyone. So whenever there is oil digging such accidents are going to take place unless there is change in industry practice standards and change in operating procedures and disaster management. Consumers can't be blamed for wanting budget products if these procedures are not in place.

Just a case of neglegence and why would anyone be bothered from the adminstration. They have too much of oil and if they want more they just have to hire a kid, blindfold him and ask him to point to a country on the map. Go shopping !!

What further pissed off people that the president was taking golfing lessons and talking to Russian diplomats at burger joints visiting affected areas in 3 piece suites. This doesn't bother me but just giving an idea of what people think here.

Personally, when you have important invasions in the name of terrorism then an oil slick is insignificant.

Last edited by prince_pervez : 1st July 2010 at 20:50.
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Old 1st July 2010, 21:04   #8
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Many air travel companies around the World are putting marginally-safe amounts of fuel in their planes to cut costs and reduce weight of the plane. A couple of planes have almost run out of fuel towards the end of these journeys. So according to your logic, I assume the passengers must be held at fault for being thrifty and trying to spend less on flying during the economic recession? If people don't have decision-making power in the workings of a huge corporation, it's stupid to blame them when something goes wrong.
that's exactly the cat mouse game I am referring to, and that's where govt regulations come into picture. This is because businesses always work in capitalistic manner while govt always has to work in socialistic (hence economically absurd) manner.

I am not saying you blame the people. But the original post was about how a common man should influence BP, and I was specifically answering that. bycottig BP is not an option when you want more oil from deeper and difficult places since all easy oil has been utilized. There is a risk involved anywhere we dig. And as usual, we leave the regulations enforcements and associated penalties to Govt.

edit: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ear...rns-study.html

Quote:
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This is why I think BP must be stung harder that their staff gets a bit hot in their seats.
looks like you have more insider information that us regular Joes. it would help if you brought that out first to persuade us why we should specifically bycott BP, while continue supporting shell and exxon etc.

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Originally Posted by prince_pervez View Post
What further pissed off people that the president was taking golfing lessons and talking to Russian diplomats at burger joints visiting affected areas in 3 piece suites. This doesn't bother me but just giving an idea of what people think here.

Personally, when you have important invasions in the name of terrorism then an oil slick is insignificant.
you can never be too careful when you are president of USA. Hypothetically, what if president put all his attention on gulf only to realize it was a distraction for an unrest somewhere in north.

Last edited by vivekiny2k : 1st July 2010 at 21:06.
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Old 1st July 2010, 22:16   #9
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looks like you have more insider information that us regular Joes. it would help if you brought that out first to persuade us why we should specifically bycott BP, while continue supporting shell and exxon etc.
Shell; Exxon etc are the lucky ones this time. I am not in favour supporting any of them. I try to support any of them as little as possible by driving cars with a high fuel efficiency. But this wouldn't count anything in the grand scheme of things.

All the oil companies including BP prepared this desaster well by negligence. Their first point of call in all actions is saving money. Naturally they would, but they have done it to perversion.

Now some people busy calculating how they can minimise the financial damage. They have zero interest solving this on humanitarian issues. Jobs will be lost, lives already have been lost because of it and the calculating is going on. Horizon was put in place to check out ideas.

The laughable thing from this team is that they request field testing data for the proposed ideas.

First of all such data does not exist as we are talking an environment with a pressure of 2000+psi or 150 bars.

And secondly there is no specialist in existence to make use of any such data.

This makes sense.

After wasting time with some arrogant idiots of BP head quarters and wasting time for days for bringing forward an old school solution proposal I only now got somewhere by finding out the lead engineers are.

I am waiting for their call.

The pressure that is needed should lead to having sacked Bob Dudley and the entire management.

Also I would like to see at least man slaughter charges pressed against the management for the deaths they have incurred so far (bit in the fashion the Mitsubishi boss got serving 9 life sentences).

If BP is not getting this sorted it will lead to the most severe environmental consequences in human history.

Don't you agree that this is enough reason to turn up the heat?
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Old 1st July 2010, 22:38   #10
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The pressure that is needed should lead to having sacked Bob Dudley and the entire management.
Knee jerk reaction.

I am not saying it's wrong or right, but this is only what I can see happening if your wishes come true.

1. the board, and the shareholders (eventually a lot of us) will appoint another bob dudley with same business sense and aggressive and risk taking capabilities, and you haven't achieved anything significant, except a revenge.

or

2. a Humanitarian lead is appointed who takes care of all these things first. BP will sink within an year from strong competition from other companies.

again without being judgmental about what's wrong and right, take a guess on which way this will go.
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Old 1st July 2010, 23:18   #11
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Ripping off someone from a post does not ensure that an accident of such a magnitude will not happen again. If we get someone or even Bob to review the operating procedures and disaster management then we can atleast ensure on paper that some measures have been taken. Next BP has given out millions to the affected, atleast they said in the news they did.

Financially if BP weakens in the market and is eventually bought out by any bigger fish then also we cannot guarantee that this will not happen again.

Safety procedures of all such companies has to be reviewed to say the least. Talk about going green.

That said, is there a law suit filed against the top execs ?
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Old 1st July 2010, 23:22   #12
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My believe is that BP will sink in any case, but what we can do is make it psychologically interesting in that way that we help accelerate it.

The banks had to re-write the rule books too as people are getting stronger by taking action. Over here Santander started losing a lot of business.

This might give some director some idea in the future to act a bit more wisely.

I don't know how the situation is in India, but in some European countries we are not far of a revolt against the capitalistic idiocy. People start to get seriously fed up with paying the bills while the culprits - the Bob Dudleys - go out and drink Champagne and think high life is on..
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Old 2nd July 2010, 01:13   #13
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^^^
believe me man its the same here. Also this year has been the worst yet. With fuel prices including cooking gas going up.
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Old 2nd July 2010, 10:27   #14
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BP are unlucky this happened in America! Had this happened in India, things could have been wrapped up in a very economical way, paying out a token compensation and lining some pockets a la Union Carbide.
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Old 2nd July 2010, 10:54   #15
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Let's face some facts

1: If it was not BP, it could have been some other company
2: Deep sea drilling was a huge risk and there should have been a high level of regulatory safety guidelines and framework
3: BP have screwed up PR wise, people are slamming them, first no one can predict which solution is best, each solution takes time to implement. As for the relief well's, we will only know in August. In theory, it is most probably the most effective solution which they are working on. Piling on different solutions while they are working on one is akin to our indian road accident scenario where so "many" experts jump in and help causing the actual rescue team to lose focus and lose effectiveness.

As for negligience - let the enquiry proceed

I am saddened by the environmental consequences but if BP is guilty (most probably), let them at least try and resolve for now.

Peter - consider, if you were the lead engineer and getting 20 such credible proposals a day, you would be confused, then get fed up and then close up. But again, BP should at least have a way to receive proposals and evalaute. That is their failure no doubt.
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