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Old 19th July 2010, 13:33   #91
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Originally Posted by prateek99 View Post
I fail to understand how a flickering headlight is related to torque.
That flickring headlight came from overloaded alternator , where it is unable to keep up with load and voltage drops. Now again at the risk of repetition,
Lets say you have 35 Amp alternator and lets say you have minimal 5 Amp load on it then actually current flow will be less in the coils of alternator and thus the work done will be less so torque required will be less.
If you load the alernator to peak requirement then the current flowing through coils will be higher thus turning the shaft requires more workdonw and which in turn means more torque.

More load on engine means more fuel consumption.


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Originally Posted by prateek99 View Post

You mean a faulty design? RPM going up with just your stock headlights ON.
or an Advanced design to keep the minimum RPM.

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Originally Posted by prateek99 View Post

It seems you have done some study. We are all eyes for your results.
Atleast few Maruti Alto owners agree to the observation , Why are you eying any thing here grab keys of a small vehicle and try out yourself , to measure RPM accurately ( in case car does not have tachometer) use a scan gauge tool

FYI : In a Tata Safari 2.2 Dicor at Idle RPM when you turn power steering ( hydraulic) that also ups the RPM by 100 RPM the reason is same instead of shaft of alternator it is PS pump. This is not a faulty design the primary purpose of idle RPM is to keep engine running.
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Old 19th July 2010, 13:40   #92
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I have a sports motorcycle which has a fairing and it covers up all the engine and under the belly.

Comments-- If some one crashes on it, everything will break.

Me--Suppose if you crash and you don't wear a helmet, do you?

n00b--No, why should I?

Me--Why don't you think about your beautiful face in the event of a crash?

Chauffeurs take the cake as far as logic goes.
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Old 19th July 2010, 13:53   #93
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
That flickring headlight came from overloaded alternator , where it is unable to keep up with load and voltage drops. Now again at the risk of repetition,
Lets say you have 35 Amp alternator and lets say you have minimal 5 Amp load on it then actually current flow will be less in the coils of alternator and thus the work done will be less so torque required will be less.
If you load the alernator to peak requirement then the current flowing through coils will be higher thus turning the shaft requires more workdonw and which in turn means more torque.
How about when your engine is OFF? Where is the torque? Still that headlight will be ON and flicker while playing music.

Quote:
or an Advanced design to keep the minimum RPM.
So, Maruti changed the design only in Alto?

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Why are you eying any thing here
Everyone here is eyeing for some additional knowledge.

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In a Tata Safari 2.2 Dicor at Idle RPM when you turn power steering ( hydraulic)
We are talking electrical here. Hydraulics is pure mechanical.

We had flickering head lights, then energy conservation, then torque and then? I donno.

Sorry to spoil the mood of this thread guys. I am off.

Here is another one from me;

422, packed AC bus from Mulund to Andheri, one passenger gets down just before climbing the Powai slope and says to driver.
"abhi ye ek aadmi utarne se bus ka mausam achcha banega"

Last edited by prateek99 : 19th July 2010 at 13:57.
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Old 19th July 2010, 13:54   #94
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Found quite a few funny statements in this thread.

What was funnier was that some of the reported funny statements were funnier than the reported statements themselves, and that the person reporting believed otherwise.

We at times are confident of the facts being true in a certain manner and we go along all our lives giving a comic reaction to others who state them in any other way, but sometimes the joke is actually on us and what we belive.

No am not going to get into the trap of picking out the statements in this thread that qualify on the above. Relations with fellow members are also important.
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Old 19th July 2010, 14:02   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prateek99 View Post
I fail to understand how a flickering headlight is related to torque.
This can be easily observed in old diesel generators. Those are still being used in small town.

1. Do not give any load and then count number of hours it run on 1 litre of diesel.

2. Give full capacity load and you actually observe the RPM in those generator actually reduces. Why? Because it does not have ECU to maintain IDLE RPM. At this point of time generator is guzzling more fuel than without load condition.

3. Overload the generator. In this case all of the lights will starts flickering and actually you are consuming more fuel, than case - 2, without satisfactory output.


There is very simple law of energy. Energy never lost, it converts to other type of energy. If you want more AH from generator, you have to design BIG and BIG motor would be required to generate more AH and hence more fuel consumption. Otherwise, if we go with your assumption then small generator can light entire city, without flickering light . Trust me this would be nice invention.

This is also funny here: People have assumption is Alternator is producing current in car without consuming any energy.
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Old 19th July 2010, 14:10   #96
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One from my side. I was at the VW showroom in Thane on Saturday evening to check the Polo. The sales person can not speak. He stammers. Very strange a company like VW hiring a sales person who stammer. Anyways he told me about the car what ever he could, I knew more than that. Then i casually mentioned to him about Mirca. His comments: Sir Micra is assembled in India, not made in India. I still dont know what does that mean. I just left the showroom unimpressed.
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Old 19th July 2010, 14:29   #97
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As per my understanding,
Assembled: "Put together" using imported components
Made: "Manufactured" using primarily local components

However I am not sure if Micra can be called an "assembled car". It may have quite a few imported components now. But that will surely change soon...
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Old 19th July 2010, 14:32   #98
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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
This can be easily observed in old diesel generators. Those are still being used in small town.
Do they have a battery with it?

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This is also funny here: People have assumption is Alternator is producing current in car without consuming any energy.
The point of discussion here is consumption of 'additional energy' and not 'no energy'. Funny?
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Old 19th July 2010, 14:41   #99
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Originally Posted by prateek99 View Post
Do they have a battery with it?
Amount of output is Battery AH+Alternator AH. So, flickering of lights does not relate to battery. When flickering happens all the load actually exhausted Battery AH + Alternator AH capacity, and it requires more AH from system, which battery cannot provide and alternator is only variable source, which is also running upto its limit.


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Originally Posted by prateek99 View Post
The point of discussion here is consumption of 'additional energy' and not 'no energy'. Funny?
If you read my post, I already said, amount of energy consumption is proportional to the load given. This means if you load additionally, it requires additional energy to compensate, till it reaches maximum capacity.
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Old 19th July 2010, 14:47   #100
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Originally Posted by prateek99 View Post
How about when your engine is OFF? Where is the torque? Still that headlight will be ON and flicker while playing music.
When engine is off it is drawing from battery , Battery is at 12 and alternator is 13.4 volts so with running engine the current will only be drawn from alternator till the point it gets overloaded and voltage drop to 12 V .
Current always flow from higher to lower potential.

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Originally Posted by prateek99 View Post

We are talking electrical here. Hydraulics is pure mechanical.
Energy is same , Alternator is mechanical till some point and then converts same mechanical rotatory motion to electrical.

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Originally Posted by prateek99 View Post
We had flickering head lights, then energy conservation, then torque and then? I donno.
because they are interlinked by basic principles of physics.

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Originally Posted by prateek99 View Post
The point of discussion here is consumption of 'additional energy' and not 'no energy'. Funny?
Yeah it is funny on how people still does not believe law of conservation of energy.
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Old 19th July 2010, 14:55   #101
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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
Amount of output is Battery AH+Alternator AH. So, flickering of lights does not relate to battery. When flickering happens all the load actually exhausted Battery AH + Alternator AH capacity, and it requires more AH from system, which battery cannot provide and alternator is only variable source, which is also running upto its limit.
Agreed. When your engine is OFF, you have no torque and no alternator backup. Still, you will see headlight flickering, without any torque or alternator.

So where is torque related to flickering? Correct me if I am wrong.

Quote:
If you read my post, I already said, amount of energy consumption is proportional to the load given. This means if you load additionally, it requires additional energy to compensate, till it reaches maximum capacity.
If you read my first post, which led to all this , and my discussion with Amit, alternator has to be optimally designed to bear minimum load (Music System and Head Lights).

Beyond this standard load, I am ready to agree that there could be additional fuel consumption.
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Old 19th July 2010, 14:56   #102
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An alternator is nothing but An electric motor in reverse (more or less).
That is, The electric motor is being driven by engine.

Now, if you spin the alternator with zero Load, it will spin relatively easy. But once you add LOAD to the alternator, like Battery charging, then the load on the alternator shoots up. This in turn offers higher resistance to the action of spinning. ( I believe this has to do something with the amount of magnetic field set up by the coils, when they complete the circuit).

So yes, an alternator loaded will offer higher resistance to spinning than, one which is not loaded ( or in other words, whose circuit is not complete).

As for people observing higher RPM, I believe this has something to do with the ECU's anti-stalling mechanism (or whatever it is called). When the ECU detects a dip in the engine RPM, under idle conditions, it will automatically compensate by supplying more fuel.

You can actually use this property of ECU to drive your car in first gear in moderate road conditions.
Its the same reason why you see fluctuating RPM when you use hydraulic steering, since they too put load on engine.




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Originally Posted by prateek99 View Post
Do they have a battery with it?



The point of discussion here is consumption of 'additional energy' and not 'no energy'. Funny?

Last edited by allajunaki : 19th July 2010 at 15:01.
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Old 19th July 2010, 15:09   #103
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
When engine is off it is drawing from battery , Battery is at 12 and alternator is 13.4 volts so with running engine the current will only be drawn from alternator till the point it gets overloaded and voltage drop to 12 V .
Current always flow from higher to lower potential.
This point originated from fuel consumption. Now with engine OFF, where is the question of fuel consumption? Where is the question of torque?

Quote:
Yeah it is funny on how people still does not believe law of conservation of energy.
I never denied it, gentleman.
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Old 19th July 2010, 15:09   #104
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i had a cbr600rr, and few question i always got to hear was
1. kaha se modify karayi? (where did u get it modified from?)
2. bombay se laaye ho? (bought it from bombay?)
3. average kya deti hai? (what's the average?)
n once told - ehh...itna kum!! (that's it!?!?)
4. isse achha car le lete (you should have bought a car instead)
5. yeh dhoom wali hai na (this is the same bike which was used in dhoom?)
6. chalate kaha ho?? (where do you ride it?)
7. special license lagta hai?? (do you need a special license to ride these kind of bikes?)
8. itni garmi mein jacket, helmet aur gloves!! pagal ho gaye ho (in this kind of hot weather you are wearing jacket, helmet and gloves - you must have gone mad!!)
9. helmet pehnoge to ladkiya dekhengi kaise?? (if you wear a helmet how will the gals see you??)
10. saved the best for the last - gas ki tanki kaha rakhoge?? (where will you put your domestic gas cylinder?)

believe you me, these questions have come from well educated people. once a gas cylinder delivery guy came home to deliver a cylinder. stopped close to the bike, inspected it and asked the watchman - this is an import right? this happened the same day when i had almost punched a lexus owner when he asked me - modified hai?!!?
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Old 19th July 2010, 15:15   #105
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When I bought my Safari, my MIL told me it is too big to be driven on Bangalore roads - "either you will bang into someone, or someone will bang into you"! And my wife has steadfastly refused to try driving it - "it is too big for me to control". There are many people who have asked me "Don't you feel more tired after driving such a big vehicle?"
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After paying a shade above 10 lakhs my dad still finds the scorp' to be a truck. He casually makes comments saying that lets not go by the lorry we could as well use the car. Puts me off completely.
Back from a trip to Tirumala last month, our elderly neighbour asked us " Did your drive this truck to Tirumala, I mean up and down the ghats yourself ? " I said yes, I took a little below 6 hours either way.

He had a good look at me from head to toe in utter dismay, shook his head and walked away !

Lorry driver ??
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