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Old 3rd October 2007, 23:30   #1486
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Take the case of Sachin. Playing consistently for 17 years MUST HAVE taken toll of him. He is now aware of that , case in point being his recent statements.

It looks like he wants to go at least from the ODI's but wants a shot at beating the Aussies and the Pakis on home soil (according to logic thats easy) but how long can he hold out?

We have to give him that - being the sentimental people that we are ! And we dont know what other reasons are there too - advertisers who have crores riding on him etc etc

But if he was in Australia - he would have been dropped a long time back. Remember Hayden was dropped too due to non-performance and has come back with full force. Sachin has been good but not as good as Hayden, right ?
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Old 3rd October 2007, 23:37   #1487
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Originally Posted by normally_crazy View Post
They prefer them to play in the local tournaments and hone up their skills and mental make up and then get them in.
And here in India - if we dont allow our talented youngsters to play the Ranji - we are doing them a big favour. We actually can see the difference in success of players who came in from the Ranji side (Akash Chopra) and the ones who came in directly from the junior ranks (Yuvi, Kaif, Rohit, Bhajji, Pathan)

Of course there are exceptions too but the standard of our domestic cricket is bad and at least I would like to see the talented young guys get a look in the national team asap without playing domestic cricket so that they don't spoil their game. Let them travel with the team and play international opposition in other matches - that will help them more than playing domestic matches on dead batsman friendly pitches here.
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Old 3rd October 2007, 23:40   #1488
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I think after the ODI series down under, Sachin might bid adieu to ODI cricket & concentrate on test for a year or maybe a couple. NC, unlike Australia I don't think Sachin NEEDS to be dropped. The very fact that, people now have started to think he needs to be dropped might get him to pull up his socks. I think he wants one last battle against the Aussies & Paki's before calling it quits. Knowing Sachin I am sure he wouldn't want to let go of this battle.

I completely agree with you on the part that our domestic cricket is the worst judge of good players. Probably the outcome of the last good player from Ranji Trophy was Rahul Dravid. I have always believed that our players should travel to other countries or play county cricket in England to get the exposure to bouncy wickets. Or change the way the pitches in our country are setup. And this too is happening. The alternate pitch you saw at Bangalore has been flown down all the way from New Zealand. People back home, specially Binny has a lot of hopes from this wicket I hear.

I also feel, the youngsters like Robin, Rohit, Karthik should tour with the National side even if they don't get to play. There is a lot to learn, and a lot of discussion happens in the dressing rooms on technicalities of play to reading the strengths/weaknesses of opposition. This will benefit them a lot in their future.

PS: The training at the ground level should also improve. I remember my coach, now umpire turned A.V. Jayaprakash had setup a patch of the ground (mostly barren) with grass. I mean the lush, green grass not the parthenium that grows. He made 5 nets on this patch of grass, he would get the groundsmen to cut the grass to a level that you could still see the greenness on the pitch and he use to have really quick bowlers hurl ***** at you. Mind you this was when I was 10 or so. So it must have been around mid 90's. The ball used to seam around off the deck & be extremely skiddy & I used to hate him for making me open all the time back then. It took a while getting used to, but coming to think of it now we need more such camps.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 3rd October 2007 at 23:53.
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Old 4th October 2007, 00:27   #1489
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Hey rks, that will work with decent team like India but never with brutes like Australia. Its part of their culture. The question is to pay them back or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rks View Post
I am against sledging or chattering on the field with the objective of disturbing the batsman's concentration. The constant chatter by wicketkeepers is, in particular, very annoying. If I were the bowler or close-in fielder, I would ask the wicketkeeper to shut up and concentrate on his keeping. I don't think that skilled players who are confident of their own abilities would ever need to use such tactics to win a game of cricket.
What if somebody slaps you?
1. Do nothing (as taught by great men of history)
2. Don't slap him but show him you a better than him in some skill (as some people tell here)
3. Slap him hard.

Whatever people have expressed here fall into one or more of these 3.

Note: Sreeshanth & Bhajji are still amateurs trying, but haven't perfected the art like Andre Nel, Pietersen, Flintoff or Symonds, who are thorough professionals
So BCCI should conduct a session on 'How to sledge and still get away'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ac 427 View Post
my whole point to start this conversation was not to start a large debate about FOR sledging or AGAINST sledging. I just wanted to voice my happiness over the fact that we are not another 'doormat' team. No one can come and say things to us and walk away.

WRT to the point of perfromance. . . we are the T 20 world champions, and that is NOT by luck its performance. Agreed the real test is the 50 overs and test match i am an eternal optimist and do believe that we have what it takes to be the best and destroy the rest.

Last edited by diabloo : 4th October 2007 at 00:29.
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Old 4th October 2007, 00:51   #1490
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
aggression you show when Aamir Sohail tonks you for a 4, points out to you how not to bowl & when you get him bowled with the very next delivery. Thats when you show your aggression.
Like that could ever happen.

Just kidding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo
What if somebody slaps you?
1. Do nothing (as taught by great men of history)
2. Don't slap him but show him you a better than him in some skill (as some people tell here)
3. Slap him hard.
Now what I'd really like to see is Sreesanth slap someone like Andrew Symmonds, lol. What would follow would be quite a sight.

Anyway, you guys are doing well. Please carry on. In N_C's words, "What's Up?".

Everytime I have nothing to do I come to this thread and get comforted by the fact that I'm not the only one.
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Old 4th October 2007, 00:57   #1491
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Anyway, you guys are doing well. Please carry on. In N_C's words, "What's Up?".

Everytime I have nothing to do I come to this thread and get comforted by the fact that I'm not the only one.


Thanks for coming in - the spirits were flagging and the general atmosphere was almost turning cordial!

Every once in a while someone needs to come in here and turn the coals over a bit.
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Old 4th October 2007, 01:25   #1492
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News from the Castrol Cricketing Awards 07 is that Ganguly has been awarded "The best captain in 75 years of Indian Test Cricket". And players of the decade to Rahul Dravid & Sachin Tendulkar from 1997-2007. The previous decade went to Kapil Dev & Sunil Gavaskar. Other notable players to receive the awards were Patuadi, Nayadu, Vinoo Mankad. Sadly, there was no mention of Md. Azharuddin. Outstanding Performance Award goes to Dhoni & his boys for T20. All cricketing captains (Indian) were felicitated at the show held in Kochi.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 4th October 2007 at 01:27.
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Old 4th October 2007, 08:43   #1493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
When they do it, its aggression. If we do the same, its stupidity?

Note: How about having a coach for sledging, who will teach how to sledge & to getaway with it And this will look aggression to the biased eyes
I agree. Whenever we appeal vociferously, it is called excessive appealing, if we speak, it is called sledging. If the aussies or the english sledge, it is just good natured banter & all part of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
A little bit of sledging is OK, but, Shreesanth overdid it. Sledging is pointless if it's not backed up by good bowling.
Still, it's characters like Shreesanth and Shoaib Akhtar who bring some colour to the game. Man, where's that guy gone?
I agree that you have to back it up with performance. But why blame the individual & crucify him for literally showing some spirit, which our boys lack so much of.

Shoaib's grounded for indiscipline off the ground.
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Old 4th October 2007, 13:23   #1494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885
aggression you show when Aamir Sohail tonks you for a 4, points out to you how not to bowl & when you get him bowled with the very next delivery. Thats when you show your aggression.
Like that could ever happen.

Just kidding.
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Old 4th October 2007, 16:36   #1495
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Aussies made vulgar comments in Kochi: Harbhajan*-*News*-*News*-*Indiatimes Cricket

"They think they are superior and can do and say whatever they like, but that is not the case,"

"They are very bad losers. They were beaten in the (Twenty20) World Cup and they clearly did not like that,"

"I was responding to a lot of vulgar words that were said to me. I don't have any problem with chitchat on the field, so long as it is about the game. But when it is very personal and vulgar, that is not on. They think you cannot fight back and they do not like it when you do."

I won't listen to that crap. If they want to play like that, they'll get it back from us,"

"Ask any team. They will tell you that when (Australia) get beaten, they react badly.

"In this game, you win some and you lose some, but regardless of the result, there is no excuse for their kind of behaviour,"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitin View Post
Did you guys see how Symmonds & hayden were mocking/sneering at Harbhajan? I didn't quite see a need for that. Was it because they hit him all over the place after the 1st over? Bhajji wasn't happy for sure,and then he decided to give them a few words too.
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Old 4th October 2007, 17:22   #1496
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Yeah, but Bajji doesnt know that we Indians only pick on their own and that instead of picking on the Aussie behaviour our wonderful critics pick on our own players instead.

Goes to show how submissive we are! The Aussie loss in the semi-finals was glossed over, but one Indian loss in Kochi has been dissected, every little fault examined under a microscope and on the basis of that research we have concluded that our team is a bunch of good for nothings - except the Duty Dodging Dwarf (3D from now on, or TD if that sounds better), of course - he cant possibly do anything wrong.
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Old 4th October 2007, 17:41   #1497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Ha ha ha, like there could ever be cricketers by the name of Aamir Sohail and Venkatesh Prasad, hahaha.


.
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.
.
.

I gather, some people still don't know how seriously they ought to take me on the forum.
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Old 4th October 2007, 20:29   #1498
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Chalo, I think its time to play the "I am holier (aggressive) than thou" game here. I'll begin by making a personal remark against a member. And let them respond and show their aggressiveness. Then we can keep continuing the game until one of the moderators come and kick us both out (which is eventually whats going to happen on the field too). I am appalled at the way some senior members, who I expected to be mature are putting out such silly arguments. Fine they made a personal comment, but what happened to your sense of maturity? Gone with the wind?

We all know the Australian's are a bunch of spoilt brats. No ones denying it, so are we to stoop down to the same level? I am surprised all those giving out these comments here will actually advice their own children to do the same? If so, then I would really appreciate you guys. Not otherwise. And do make a note that no one is denying sledging is bad, its good for the game in a way. But there is a limit to the way you sledge. If the Australian's crossed it there is no need for us to cross the limits too.

Surprisingly, I wonder why it is only we Indian's who keep giving justifications to our actions. I don't think there was a need for Bhajji to justify what he did OR why he did it. He did it on the field, and that should have been the end to it on the field. Unless, he just wants public empathy.

Going by the other side of the story, Ponting says:
Quote:
I don't really care what he [Harbhajan] has to say, to tell you the truth," Ponting said on the eve of the third ODI. "He has plenty to say on the field and then whenever someone says something back to him, he is the first one to run away from it.
Quote:
"Aggression doesn't mean sledging or giving personal barrage, it is having a presence on the field and playing good, aggressive cricket," Ponting said.
Quote:
That is not the way they generally play their cricket, so they have put on some sort of a brave face. We will go and play the best aggressive cricket we can and leave all the talking to the Indians. We have played some great cricket. I am looking forward to playing some better cricket.
Let us match up our talking with some performances and then we will appreciate all the dancing. If not, we are just talking parrots who are fit for nothing.
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Old 4th October 2007, 20:37   #1499
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Moral of the whole story

If you sledge - you better perform to justify that sledging

If you perform - you have the right to sledge

If you sledge but fail to perform - idiot

If you perform but do not sledge - wimp

If you sledge and perform - Australian
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Old 4th October 2007, 20:41   #1500
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Mclaren, there are 2 aspects of the game .... no big deal that india didn't beat them but dissecting our players for giving it right back is just not accepted . I for one am loving it and I hope it gets even worse and time for Dhoni to also start chattering behind the stumps -- lets give it back to them . I kept quiet on the bhajji incident but today I saw what happened and it was a clear case of Clarke mouthing of after getting Bhajji stumped , and bhajji only reacted when a few more joined Clarke -- and then Gilchrist being captain also joined in .

What do you expect ... I say give it to them next game -- and maybe ten times worse . my message to the men in blue ' so what if you lose some of your match fees , you all did get a big bonus after the WC victory . A few grand to the ICC kitty won't hurt you ' . Greater if you can beat them ... but its ok if you lose but give it to them the same way they give it to others .
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