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Old 6th October 2007, 13:14   #1591
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Where are the options??

Gambhir? Oh come on! How many chances does he need? Given the team composition the only three guys who can open with Sachin are Gambhir/Uthappa/Dada... Of these Dada is the best bet.. especially given the fact that he can contribute with the ball. Agreed he is a loser of a fielder. I can field better )
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Old 6th October 2007, 13:17   #1592
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Latest rumours are that Dravid is going to be "dropped" for Karthik in the next match.
Sad it would be... But he has not been performing for sometime now save that brilliant 65 odd ball 92 odd runs against England...
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Old 6th October 2007, 13:30   #1593
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Originally Posted by thefreak View Post
Sad it would be.
Its befitting actually. But these 2 years could well see almost all the great players retire from International cricket. Inzi, Lara, Gilchrist, Sachin, Dravid, Ganguly, Anil Kumble, apart from Warne, Mcgrath, Nasser Hussain and others who already have. Interesting thing though is that they all might end up joining ICL and we will get a chance to see them much closer to home .
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Old 6th October 2007, 13:38   #1594
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Some of our Cricketers have built reputation around them, such as Wall for Dravid. Even our cars currently sold have built some reputation. Do both these reputations match? Let us see

1. Joginder Sharma - Logan
USP of Logan is WideBody. USP of JS is bowling wides.

2. Rahul Dravid - TATA Indica/Sumo
Minor niggles here & there but still preferred to the donkey's work. No wonder it is the preferred choice of our taxis.

3. Sachin Tendulkar - 89 Model Honda Accord
Stunner, performer, terrific engine and still going strong. Except that it has dropped a second in the performance and that it is old, no problems.

4. Saurav Ganguly - Toyota Corolla
Car with big heart, big performer but reached its shelf life. Toyota still trying to push hard, but upstaged by newer entrants.

5. M S Dhoni - Honda Civic
New age looks, hit with people

6. Yuvraj Singh - Mitsubishi Cedia

Terrific package, wins races but may be as Greg Chappel said, 'he is an incredible talent, perhaps too much for his own good. He should have been leading the batting chart.'

7. Gautam Gambhir - Scorpio
Good compact package, owners happy but can topple when pushed hard !

8. Virender Sehwag - SkodaRS (Petrol)
Fun to drive, good to watch, some amazing performances but very expensive.

9. Robin Utappa - New Honda City VTEC
Has the performance numbers but people say it doesn't inspire confidence.

10. Rohit Sharma - Getz CRDi
New kid, nobody knows the performance but everybody are excited !!

- more coming....

Last edited by diabloo : 6th October 2007 at 13:40.
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Old 6th October 2007, 13:59   #1595
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
3. Sachin Tendulkar - 89 Model Honda Accord
Stunner, performer, terrific engine and still going strong. Except that it has dropped a second in the performance and that it is old, no problems.
[/i]
Was Palio 1.6, is now Palio 1.1 Stile.
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Old 6th October 2007, 14:39   #1596
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Munaf Patel:

Contessa Classic. When launched in India was one of the fastest vehicles (bowlers) and now almost every other car (bowler) can beat it in speed.
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Old 6th October 2007, 15:26   #1597
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
TATA Indica/Sumo
Minor niggles here & there but still preferred to the donkey's work. No wonder it is the preferred choice of our taxis.
IMO this suits Anil Kumble better. Dravid is more like Octavia Tdi. Reliable, sturdy & if he goes bonkers, expensive to replace.
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Old 6th October 2007, 15:33   #1598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Only that Pakistan might get there a little sooner than we might
I don't care about Pakistan getting there or not.
Quote:
Also, Niranjan Shah at the recent press conference stated:
sigh - the circus that is called BCCI.

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Latest rumours are that Dravid is going to be "dropped" for Karthik in the next match.
I wish this rumour comes true. Dravid was never a ODI player to begin with and if he had not taken up wicket-keeping, he would have been dropped much earlier.

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Sunil Gavaskar says Dhoni needs to lead from the front & get himself up the order at No 3 & Yuvraj at 4. I would love to see Robin & Gambhir opening. Dhoni @ 3, Yuvi @ 4, Rohit @ 5, Karthik @ 6 play in the next match.
IMO - Gavaskar these days talks loads of crap (no offense). I would like to see this batting line-up

1) Sachin (last chance)
2) Robin
3) Rohit
4) Yuvi
5) Kartick
6) Dhoni
7) Pathan

Yuvi has to be the pivot of the innings now and this line up gives Rohit the time to get himself in and then stay at one end too. Dhoni if he comes up the order - thinks he has to play technically correct shots and curbs his natural instincts which hurts us more.

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Inspite of the good batting performances by Sehwag at T20 & Kaif at the India A matches, they haven't been looked at. So I am not quite sure if "performance" is the key to the selection of the current team. If it is, Murali Karthik hasn't played on the sub-continent for a while now.
yeah - I guess so.
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Old 6th October 2007, 19:24   #1599
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Dravid was never a ODI player to begin with and if he had not taken up wicket-keeping, he would have been dropped much earlier.
I disagree on this one. He has evolved as a ODI player. Initially he wasn't, but with time I think he was he perfect No.3 that India could have had. And look at his stats, 335 matches, 10565 runs (only 7 have achieved this feat), Avg of 40 (3D's avg is highest at 44), SR of 71 (as good as Inzi's & only Jayasurya, Ponting & 3D have SR in the 80s), 81 50's (3rd highest in the list) & 12 100's is not something that you can neglect and brand him as a bad one-day player.

When India was/is known for its dramatic batting collapses (only after Pakistan) he has been there saving us time & time again. Plus, he gave India that perfect team composition by keeping wickets. I don't think many Indians would have taken that kind of responsibility, he has always been a team man. And his hands, that are as safe as a house have won India countless wickets even in ODI matches in the slips. He has been perhaps the most underrated ODI player India has seen in recent times. Adding to it, he was always overshadowed in ODI's by Sachin, Ganguly, Sehwag, Yuvraj, Dhoni. And this is quite misleading.

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IMO - Gavaskar these days talks loads of crap (no offense).
Batsmen & bowlers around the world still take his advice even till date. Its obvious he must be good at it. And I think he is the best analyzer of the game in present day cricket after Geoffrey Boycott. His mantra is simple, let the best batsmen play the most number of *****. Plus he is trying to indicate the fact that Dhoni must do a Graeme Smith.

Both are aggressive stroke makers, both love to fight it out, they have good cricketing brains, and most importantly when a captain fires from the front it augers well for the rest of the team as well. Just look around and you will find why Graeme Smith, Ricky Ponting, Ganguly used to command the respect they do/did. Because they lead from the front. And Dhoni must lead by example.

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Dhoni if he comes up the order - thinks he has to play technically correct shots and curbs his natural instincts which hurts us more.
I don't think he has to curb his natural instincts. Right now he seems to be hitting the ball hard into the ground and finding fielders regularly. During the power plays he could use this to his advantage. And talking about technicality, thats a big hog wash. Remember that the 3 most successful stroke making openers India ever had in one-day cricket namely Srikanth, Ganguly, Sehwag were never technically sound. Yet they found immense success.

And while you are at it kindly look at Dhoni's career averages in ODI cricket. Needless to say, he has done BEST at No 3 & No 4. What Sunny says makes complete sense. Here, have a look at the stats yourself.

Position Mat Inn NO Runs HS1 HS2 HS3 Avg 100's 50's 0's
Opening 2 2 0 98 96 2 - 49.00 0 1 0
3rd position 11 11 2 641 183* 148 91* 71.22 2 2 1
4th position 7 7 2 369 80 77* 68 73.80 0 4 0
5th position 8 8 1 160 44 40* 24 22.85 0 0 1
6th position 25 25 6 765 67* 58 56 40.26 0 5 0
7th position 21 21 8 484 139* 72* 67* 37.23 1 3 3
8th position 3 3 0 51 20 17 14 17.00 0 0 0

Stats courtesy : Cricinfo.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 6th October 2007 at 19:36.
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Old 6th October 2007, 20:33   #1600
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We're wasting too much internet real estate on have-beens or soon-to-be-have-beens.

Get the rest of them out, get Dada back in and let him work with new talent and youngsters as only he has shown the ability to. The two others have never been known to encourage young talent, and one of them still thinks he's a 16 year old prodigy so there isnt room for anyone else.
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Old 6th October 2007, 20:50   #1601
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I agree with mc that dravid is the most underrated ODI player.He is the one out of fab3 who has won most matches for india while chasing big totals especially just before,after and during 03 WC in SA.

Everyone remembers Sachin and Sehwag's batting against Pak fast bowlers and sixes they hit over backward point of Shoaib's bowling but no one remembers his innings along with Yuvraj which ultimately won the match with 5 overs to spare during WC03.Mind you they were chasing something like 290!!

Out of fab3 he certainly deserves his place as he has been most consistent batsman along with Yuvi in last few yrs.
Sachin and Saurav have been patchy and their recent inniwasngs are also scratchy though they have maintained 40plus average.Sachin's 43 in 3rd ODI in 71 ***** was useless and it served no purpose.

Dravid should be in the team for atleast 2 more yrs and he seems the best man to guide younger players.
It is Sachin who should be dropped and not Dravid.
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Old 6th October 2007, 20:57   #1602
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rsjaurr, one of the most memorable knocks that I have seen Rahul play is the match against Eng at the 99 WC. Unfortunately, like many of his other knocks this knock too was overshadowed by Ganguly's brilliant innings. Dravid is not new to such circumstances. Though he is arguably the best Indian batsmen in oversees tours when it comes to test matches.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 6th October 2007 at 20:59.
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Old 6th October 2007, 21:30   #1603
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Originally Posted by rsjaurr View Post
Dravid should be in the team for atleast 2 more yrs and he seems the best man to guide younger players. It is Sachin who should be dropped and not Dravid.
If you look at Dravid's career strike rate in ODIs it is something like 72, the same as Ganguly's. That is, about 4.3 runs per over. Wheres Sachin's career strike rate in ODI's would be in the 80's (as per my recollection). It is only recently that Sachin has fallen off and is scoring very slowly in most of the games.

There was a time when it was fashionable to start slowly and maintain 4 runs per over for the first 35 overs or so, and then hit out to get a total of about 250, which was considered match-winning. All that has changed today and a career strike rate near 4 an over is no longer acceptable.

And the idea that Ganguly has encouraged youngsters like Yuvraj is simply a myth. If Ganguly were genuinely interested in encouraging youngsters he should retire and make way for them, like for example, Nasser Hussain did to make way for Strauss. When Greg Chappell asked Ganguly to retire so that Yuvraj and Kaif can get their due (in both Test and one-day cricket) we saw Ganguly's true colours. He replied that Yuvraj and Kaif cannot be compared to him and that he (Ganguly) is much more experienced. So here we have a senior man, who had made his name and fame and money, who was out of form and failing miserably match after match, still competing with younger, more deserving players and keeping them out of the team.

It is time for all 3 to either retire or face the embarassment of being dropped.
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Old 6th October 2007, 21:30   #1604
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hey guys when is the t 20 20 between india and australia.Also where would be the tickets available for the match.I heard the match is in Brabourne stadium,Mumbai
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Old 6th October 2007, 21:55   #1605
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If you look at Dravid's career strike rate in ODIs it is something like 72, the same as Ganguly's.
And the same as Inzamam's as well. So are you trying to imply that Inzamam is not a good enough one-day player?

Quote:
Wheres Sachin's career strike rate in ODI's would be in the 80's (as per my recollection).
Its 85 actually among the top 7 10,000 runs plus scorers. Only Jayasurya has a SR of 90, Sachin is 2nd.

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All that has changed today and a career strike rate near 4 an over is no longer acceptable.
You will be proved wrong over and over again on this one topic. This theory holds good for most matches played in the sub-continent where the new ball does very little. When you go to Australia, NZ, WI you cannot expect to start off hitting from ball one because the new ball WILL do something.

You fail to notice the fact that in 3 games in this series Australia got off to only 1 quick getaway that too when they DIDN'T loose wickets. When they did, they played cautiously. IInd match saw them score only 60 runs in 15 overs. Ist match they scored about 78 in 15 overs. Which by Australian standards is very less. The main mantra is wickets in hand. No matter how much you argue on this one, it holds good. Also do note that India gave away far too many wides/NB in the 1st two matches too.

There is a link somewhere in the previous pages where there is a detailed analysis of how teams have performed since 2002 when they had lost less than 4 wickets till the 30 overs compared to when they had lost more than 4 wickets till the 30 overs. Results are quite clear that whenever a team managed to keep wickets in hand and hover around the 4.5-5 RPO mark, they managed to almost double the score from 30-50 overs EASILY. There are figures to prove the fact.

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And the idea that Ganguly has encouraged youngsters like Yuvraj is simply a myth.
. Tell me ONE captain in Indian cricket who went AGAINST the selection committee and DEMANDED that he needed some players in the team when they were dropped. I think in one such occassion Ganguly battled for Yuvraj & Bhajji.

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He replied that Yuvraj and Kaif cannot be compared to him and that he (Ganguly) is much more experienced.
I would not read much into the hungama caused by the press during Greg's fiasco. Fact is that it WAS Ganguly who batted for Sehwag, Yuvraj, Harbhajan, Pathan, Zaheer Khan, Balaji, Aashish Nehra, Kaif, Murali Karthik inspite of several bad performances. Now look at how many are still playing in the team. You will find your answer.

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It is time for all 3 to either retire or face the embarassment of being dropped.
Last I remember this thread was started to figure if Ganguly had finally exited International cricket. While it seemed dooms day for him after having been dropped he crawled back into the team again. Why is my question? Why would you bring back a player who got axed and humiliated so badly? I would like to see BCCI give an answer to this. Didn't they find ANYONE to replace him with?

Just look at what the Pakistan team is without Inzamam & Saeed Anwar. What the WI team is without Lara, Chanderpaul & Sarwan. Australian team without Ponting, Hayden & Gilchrist. Sri Lankan team without Jayasurya, Jayawardena, Sangakara. South African team without Gibbs, Kallis. Kallis just got dropped from the South African side, made it back into the team and made the selectors pay for dropping him. All top teams require experienced players. NO team with only youth has ever done well. Look at Zimbabwe right now. With Streak, Flower brothers and other players gone they even lost the test status.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 6th October 2007 at 22:02.
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