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Old 10th February 2008, 23:36   #3346
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Pathan at No 3 was 'unnecessary'. But we can't pass judgement based on plaintiff's complaint. We have to hear the arguments of the defendant.
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The decision to promote Pathan to No. 3 was descirbed as bizarre by Harsha Bhogle and I fully agree. I have no doubt in my mind that this was the decision of our "think-tank" rather than just of Dhoni.
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Old 10th February 2008, 23:53   #3347
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Pathan at No 3 was 'unnecessary'. But we can't pass judgement based on plaintiff's complaint. We have to hear the arguments of the defendant.
Not a single commentator could understand the rationale in promoting Pathan. There was no cricketing reason. Just plain internal team politics. If Pathan shines as all-rounder down the batting order, he will eventually be a threat to one of our not-so-established batsmen (apart from running away with several man-of-the match awards). That will not go down well with our "think-tank", who will find ways to unsettle Pathan.
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Old 11th February 2008, 00:00   #3348
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Thats true . For the same reason Suresh Raina is not included in the playing 11. Even Greg Chappell had great praises for this young lad and predicted that he rule the international cricket in the years to come.

So the not-so-established players in the team fear Raina and are jealous that he will win all cricket awards and break all their cricket records. So in their best interest, till now they are successful in keeping Raina out of the 11.

But Raina will comeback, prove himself and teach everybody a lesson .
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If Pathan shines as all-rounder down the batting order, he will eventually be a threat to one of our not-so-established batsmen (apart from running away with several man-of-the match awards). That will not go down well with our "think-tank", who will find ways to unsettle Pathan.
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Old 11th February 2008, 00:08   #3349
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@diabloo, you have a long way to go before understanding our cricketing politics. I will not try to explain this to you. By the way, Greg Chappell himself mentioned chopping and changing the batting order as a tactic employed by our seniors to unsettle promising youngsters.

Last edited by rks : 11th February 2008 at 00:18.
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Old 11th February 2008, 08:56   #3350
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@diabloo, you have a long way to go before understanding our cricketing politics. I will not try to explain this to you. By the way, Greg Chappell himself mentioned chopping and changing the batting order as a tactic employed by our seniors to unsettle promising youngsters.
The same Chappel once proudly quoted "We are changing the batting order to bring flexibility in the team and bring the guys out of their comfort zone".I think this was when our team was creating record in chasing totals succesfuly.

That said,I am not supporting the move to promote Pathan.If we want quick runs,I think Robin in the answer at No3 and defly not Pathan.He is currently being wasted at No.8.When Sachin retires,he will be the one to replace him.But he is now being wasted.
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Old 11th February 2008, 09:12   #3351
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OK, lets put things in their correct perspective. I am happiest when India win - and so are most people on this forum I would think. However, please remember that the debate about the "seniors" & "juniors" was all about the two or three that were picked in place of Dravid & Ganguly - so far, I haven't really seen them perform. Maybe the guys who are euphoric about the "juniors" have. Lol

Ishant Sharma....and Sreesanth.....and Pathan won the game for us. The batsmen did not do much once SRT & VS were out of the way. Please remember that we've seen only one match so far where all the "junior" batsmen had to come out & do their part - but failed collectively & miserably. When that happens,

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C'mon its just a game.
So lets forget about who is warming which part of their posterior on their sofa for the time being............


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In the morning, when India had Australia on the mats, I was wondering where the hell were the cynics?
Lol! The cynics were watching the game, what else? Besides the bowlers were doing a great job so what was there to crib about? Or even, get cynical

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today the dos have rejoiced, tomorrow it will be the dies, you never really know who is balanced.
Good morning John, couldn't disappoint you so here I am

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@Suman:I am not a big fan of SRT.But considering the number of decisions that normaly go against him,it is only normal that lady luck smiles on him once in a while and why let go of it
I agree that he's had his fair share of disappointments in the nineties but it would have just make it that much cleaner, more so since he has a reputation for walking. I think that poart of his reputation took a beating yesterday

Last edited by suman : 11th February 2008 at 09:20.
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Old 11th February 2008, 09:12   #3352
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Why should anybody walk? In modern times only Gilchrist walks and its his personal choice. The authority is the umpire and he decides who is out or not. Why should the batsman make that decision?

Walking is actually a smack on face of the umpire, its like telling, 'You deafass, you didn't hear the nick' - a disgrace.

Note: What about Symonds, Ponting, Clarke - they too don't believe in walking. Why must Indians show 'holier than thou' attitude?
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Tendulkar was out and he did not walk off. If he was a real sportsman, he should have walked off the field when he had edged the delivery to Gilly. The umpires had won the match for India today.
India were 102/5 in 28.3 overs. Lets see who were out:

Player
-Debut-TotalODIMatches
  1. Sehwag-01/Apr/1999-181
  2. Sachin-18/Dec/1989-410
  3. Pathan-09/01/2004-88
  4. Gambhir-11/Apr/2003-40
  5. Yuvraj-03/Oct/2000-197
Whats the definition of Senior, Experienced in ODIs?
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The batsmen cannot just stay at wicket. Within 100~120 runs, we would have lost first 4 wickets (we have seen this in recent past). This is the inexperienced lot and they have to practice staying on the wicket for longer time. They should not just get carried away after they hit a couple of boundaries. Hope this goes into their heads. The sooner the better for the whole team and India too.
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Old 11th February 2008, 09:31   #3353
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Originally Posted by jraj View Post
The same Chappel once proudly quoted "We are changing the batting order to bring flexibility in the team and bring the guys out of their comfort zone".
I did not agree with Chappell's policy of promoting Pathan to No. 3 either. The man should be left in peace to contribute in the lower order, which is what he does best.

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That said,I am not supporting the move to promote Pathan.If we want quick runs,I think Robin in the answer at No3 and defly not Pathan.He is currently being wasted at No.8.When Sachin retires,he will be the one to replace him.But he is now being wasted.
That is precisely the point. If Pathan starts making solid contributios with the bat, where is the need for Uthappa (or maybe Yuvraj, etc.)? Clearly we would have been better off in this game at least with an extra bowler. That is the kind of thinking that would be dangerous for some non-contributing batsmen and which our batting mafia would like to resist.

Edit: Remember, cricket is no longer just a game. It is a profession with big bucks involved, and when that happens, people will forget about the larger interests and try to protect their turf. Even man-of-the match awards are quite substantial and would give the winners lucrative endorsements. You can expect a lot of competion amongst players for these awards, and not all of it will be fair competition.

Last edited by rks : 11th February 2008 at 09:40.
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Old 11th February 2008, 09:53   #3354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Why should anybody walk? In modern times only Gilchrist walks and its his personal choice. The authority is the umpire and he decides who is out or not. Why should the batsman make that decision?

Walking is actually a smack on face of the umpire, its like telling, 'You deafass, you didn't hear the nick' - a disgrace.

Note: What about Symonds, Ponting, Clarke - they too don't believe in walking. Why must Indians show 'holier than thou' attitude?

India were 102/5 in 28.3 overs. Lets see who were out:

Player-Debut-TotalODIMatches
  1. Sehwag-01/Apr/1999-181
  2. Sachin-18/Dec/1989-410
  3. Pathan-09/01/2004-88
  4. Gambhir-11/Apr/2003-40
  5. Yuvraj-03/Oct/2000-197
Whats the definition of Senior, Experienced in ODIs?
Our people treat Sachin as god (or greater than god). If he is given this status, then he should also behave like that. I'am not talking about Ponting and his co.

This is what I think from defination of seniors ad experienced:
Seniors: The person who has played maximum no. of matches (not by age).
Experienced: As far as experienced player goes, he is the one who predicts how the ball will be bowled, one who doesn't get carried away after he hits couple of boundaries, one who stays at the wicket during crunch situations, one who can face the bowlers like Lee/Akthar etc.

You may agree with me or may not, I do not mind it.
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Old 11th February 2008, 10:08   #3355
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Where is Sachin's temple? Let me also seek his blessings .
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Our people treat Sachin as god (or greater than god). If he is given this status, then he should also behave like that.
You don't have a choice
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You may agree with me or may not, I do not mind it.
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Old 11th February 2008, 10:10   #3356
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Where is Sachin's temple? Let me also seek his blessings .You don't have a choice
Temple? Think its in Mumbai or his birth place or in his house itself.

I do have the choice but I did not want to get into unnecessary discussions.
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Old 11th February 2008, 10:18   #3357
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I can't get your line of thinking. This is my thinking:

When Pathan came at No 3, I felt
  • Pathan is insecure of his place as just a bowler and wants to show that he can contribute as batsman too. (Pathan is slow medium pacer with an undependable swing and not the best accuracy. Stuart Clark bowls sightly faster but has best in class accuracy. So Clark is more successful than Pathan).
  • So Pathan used his clout (as a senior since 2003/04) and convinced Dhoni to send him at No 3. He wanted to make some runs and secure his place in the next ODI.
  • Felt really sorry for Gambhir, who had scored a century in the last ODI at No 3.
So its Pathan who is playing politics to ensure his place in the team and subsequently ensure sponsor endorsement. My advice for Gambhir is that he must also build clout in the team to negate any clout that will be used by Pathan.
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That is precisely the point. If Pathan starts making solid contributios with the bat, where is the need for Uthappa (or maybe Yuvraj, etc.)? Clearly we would have been better off in this game at least with an extra bowler. That is the kind of thinking that would be dangerous for some non-contributing batsmen and which our batting mafia would like to resist.
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Old 11th February 2008, 10:29   #3358
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You say Sachin is God. So you want Sachin to act as God. But you can't show his temple, can't show any miracle done by him, can't recall any goodwill done by him to mankind. Then why say Sachin is God? And expect him to act as one ?

Who said Gods always act in 'holier than thou' manner? Our mythology is proof that Gods & men are no different.
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Temple? Think its in Mumbai or his birth place or in his house itself.
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Old 11th February 2008, 10:32   #3359
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You say Sachin is God. So you want Sachin to act as God. But you can't show his temple, can't show any miracle done by him, can't recall any goodwill done by him to mankind. Then why say Sachin is God? And expect him to act as one ?

Who said Gods always act in 'holier than thou' manner? Our mythology is proof that Gods & men are no different.
I'am not saying this nor expecting him to be a god. But there are masses in our cricket crazy country is saying this.
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Old 11th February 2008, 10:34   #3360
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Where? Which mass? How did you hear the mass?
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I'am not saying this nor expecting him to be a god. But there are masses in our cricket crazy country is saying this.
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