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Old 22nd October 2008, 16:14   #4426
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Originally Posted by normally_crazy View Post
But what if Dhoni was handed over the captaincy and he opted for Mishra over Kumble ?
IF Dhoni was the captain, he would have done that. But I don't think he would be handed over the captaincy for Delhi.

Edit: N_C can we have a Kumble vs Mishra poll for the next 3 days or so ?

Last edited by Eddy : 22nd October 2008 at 16:15.
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Old 22nd October 2008, 16:23   #4427
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IF Dhoni was the captain, he would have done that. But I don't think he would be handed over the captaincy for Delhi.

Edit: N_C can we have a Kumble vs Mishra poll for the next 3 days or so ?
Seems like you havent checked the announcements - Kumble has been declared captain for rest of the 2 matches as well and will play in delhi. Only if he is not fot Dhoni will captain and Mishra will play otherwise Mishra is out in delhi.
For me interesting thing is if Kumble plays and fails on his fav Kotla ground + India loses the match then what will selectors do for the last test!
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Old 22nd October 2008, 16:28   #4428
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Seems like you havent checked the announcements - Kumble has been declared captain for rest of the 2 matches as well and will play in delhi. Only if he is not fot Dhoni will captain and Mishra will play otherwise Mishra is out in delhi.
I have checked the announcements and posted the same in my previous post. Our only hope is that this is a part of mind games that are being played. Else Kumble will play and captain definitely.
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Old 22nd October 2008, 16:48   #4429
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I have checked the announcements and posted the same in my previous post. Our only hope is that this is a part of mind games that are being played. Else Kumble will play and captain definitely.
If he wont play he might lose captaincy and place in side so he cant risk that. He will definitely play.
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Old 22nd October 2008, 17:17   #4430
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How many of you actually think that had Dhoni been the captain and in bad form he would drop himself and give the others a chance? Zilch! So why expect it from Kumble? Going by consistent performances rule, I think the first person who should be dropped is Dhoni. What have his averages been in the last 2 series prior to this? 17.62 against Australia in OZ, 28.5 against SA in India before coming into this series.

Heck even Dravid, did better in his last two series than Dhoni (while he was cooling his heals partying all over the world claiming strain due to a lot of cricket over his 3 year tenure). 44.5 against the SA's and 24.66 against the Lankans. Yet I remember 90% of the members here wanting Dravid's throat cut out. Where was the rule of those who perform consistently stay in, those who don't go out? Or is applicable to only the fab 4 as diabloo calls them?

When was the last time MS Dhoni really made a contribution to help India win a test match? Back in 2006 Jan against Pakistan? Now I would really like to know on whose past laurels are we all deciding and preaching on whom to keep in the team and whom to chuck out?

Its a pity that we all tend to forget things so quickly. Who managed the team so well when we were written off in Australia? Whose captaincy were we all harping about, wondering if Anil Kumble was the captain India had been missing for decades? Come on guys, everyone has a bad day, some have a couple of series. Its all a part of the game.

Even when Ricky Ponting was made to look like a fool (he averaged in the 30s while otherwise he averages in the 45+) on his last two trips to India neither did the Aussie media or the fans write him off. Nor did they write columns on how me must be sacked and handing over the captaincy to Symonds or perhaps Clarke. They fortunately backed him all the way thru and today you have the results in front of you.

Unfortunately this is the sad mentality of we Indian's that actually puts additional pressure on the players to perform. Didn't the fact that nobody expected India to win T20 even in their dreams help them win it? Similarly, I suggest we stop putting pressure on the players. Perhaps, they could play better.

How would you feel if I were to tell you, you are past your driving days. Maybe you should hang up your boots and let your sons/daughters/younger siblings drive? I am sure deep down you all know if you are fit enough to drive or not. I am sure these players too know if they are fit enough to continue playing or not. Just as much as no one forces you to quit driving etc, I think we ought to be gentlemen enough and let them decide their careers futures.
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Old 22nd October 2008, 17:20   #4431
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Nobody's debating that mcl.

If you were the selector, who would you pick for Delhi - Mishra or Kumble ? Or both if you can come up with a combination.
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Old 22nd October 2008, 17:33   #4432
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Top run getters for India at the end of match-2

Gambhir - 221 (SR-52.61%)
Ganguly - 202 (SR-45.39%)
Shewag - 176 (SR-76.19%)
----------------------------

Dhoni - 169 (SR - 65.25%)
Sachin - 160 (SR - 59.92)

I really wonder why Ganguly was sent ahead of Sachin in the second innings to accelerate the scoring. Harbhajan would be a better choice

Also when asked about the most unforgetable moment during the second test, Dhoni mentioned Ganguly reaching 7000 runs in test cricket. His choice is a head of Sachin's record for most no.of runs in test cricket and being first to reach 12000 runs. Sachin's future looks dull and solely stands on his performance on every match which is good.

And guys what do u think, will ponting break Sachin record for most no.of runs in test cricket

Cricinfo - Lara tips Ponting as next record-holder

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Tendulkar is nearly two years older than Ponting and has a lead of almost 2000 runs on him, but Lara expects Ponting to be the next man to top the Test tally.
"I would think that he [Ponting] still has 30 or 40 Tests matches [left] under his belt," Lara said while visiting Australia this week. "He has already gone past 10,000 runs, so it is one of those records that if you play long enough and you score runs consistently, you are capable of doing it."
Sachin is approximately 1800 runs ahead of Ponting. Even if Ponting averages 60 runs (2+ than is current average), he takes 30 matches to reach that runs. But with Sachin nowhere indicating anything closer to his retirement plans, my take is its difficult to take away that record from an Indian. Whats ur take?

Last edited by Surprise : 22nd October 2008 at 17:38.
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Old 22nd October 2008, 17:38   #4433
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I really wonder why Ganguly was sent ahead of Sachin in the second innings to accelerate the scoring.
He came in to replace Gambhir - to keep the left right combination going.
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Old 22nd October 2008, 17:38   #4434
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Nobody's debating that mcl.

If you were the selector, who would you pick for Delhi - Mishra or Kumble ? Or both if you can come up with a combination.
Actually since the time I have been watching cricket, I know that every single time someone has pointed a finger at Anil, he has replied them back with a bang. Mind you not by words, like most Aussies do but by sheer brilliant performances. So never write him off.

Honestly, the answer to this question is quite simple as well. I have always felt that India always fields one extra batsmen. Contrary to what most think, most losses are due to the batting failures than the ones in the bowling department. So throw out one batsmen, field in 3 spinners. Please do counter in the fact that its Kumble's unpredictable bounce that could come in handy at the Kotla.

PS: I am honestly quite shocked at the lack of praises for Ganguly after this fabulous performance. I guess he deserved the MOTM. Here is a guy who was dropped from the domestic competition, comes in and plays like no one else expected him to. Hats off to the Bengal Tiger I must say.
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Old 22nd October 2008, 17:40   #4435
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Going by consistent performances rule, I think the first person who should be dropped is Dhoni. .
Also Harbhajan, Kumble, Dravid, Sehwag, Ganguly, Zaheer, Sachin. Gambhir had a nice series against the SL's - Kumble / Bhajji / Sachin / Ganguly / Dravid had a horrid time.

EDIT - McL, Ganguly did a wonderful job in Mohali but for me Dhoni was the MOTM. Decisive captaincy coupled with good captaincy and near impeccable glove work - he deserved to be the MOTM.

Last edited by normally_crazy : 22nd October 2008 at 17:43.
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Old 22nd October 2008, 17:52   #4436
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Actually since the time I have been watching cricket, I know that every single time someone has pointed a finger at Anil, he has replied them back with a bang. Mind you not by words, like most Aussies do but by sheer brilliant performances. So never write him off.

Honestly, the answer to this question is quite simple as well. I have always felt that India always fields one extra batsmen. Contrary to what most think, most losses are due to the batting failures than the ones in the bowling department. So throw out one batsmen, field in 3 spinners. Please do counter in the fact that its Kumble's unpredictable bounce that could come in handy at the Kotla.

PS: I am honestly quite shocked at the lack of praises for Ganguly after this fabulous performance. I guess he deserved the MOTM. Here is a guy who was dropped from the domestic competition, comes in and plays like no one else expected him to. Hats off to the Bengal Tiger I must say.
I think you are streching it too far. Noone is against Kumble. The point is he is out of form and everyone knows that and as Aus series is very impo is it fair to drop Mishra who took 7 wickets and troubled Aussies and play Kumble who has been ineffective in the last few series. Thats all.

@ Surprise - No ponting wont be able to do that if Sachin plays another two years - which means atleast 15-20 matches more and going by his determination and passion he will play for that much time atleast.
And Dhoni mentioned Ganguly as everyone in team knows its his last series and its a Comaradie which happens in all teams- You do feel emotional about the people who are with you since years and leave your team.

@ Mclaren - Dhoni deserved it as he was the captain and the changes and moves he made in test gave india its biggest win. Also it takes guts to come at number 3 ahead of -ganguly,dravid,tendulkar and laxman - if he had failed critics would have tore him apart but he did that as that was needed for the team at that point.
Ganguly played well no doubt, IMO if he scores runs in both the next matches he should be MOS which he deserves thorughly in his last series.
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Old 22nd October 2008, 18:02   #4437
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Also Harbhajan, Kumble, Dravid, Sehwag, Ganguly, Zaheer, Sachin. Gambhir had a nice series against the SL's - Kumble / Bhajji / Sachin / Ganguly / Dravid had a horrid time.
Quite true NC. But given the fact that the new Superman (highly overrated in my opinion) of Indian cricket comes with a legacy of bells and whistles and aura of doing the impossible possible, such pathetic performances from him will shatter the confidence of the entire team itself. Imagine if Dhoni itself starts to fail, what about the other mere mortals? Dhoni to most these days is the God sent savior of Indian cricket who can't put a foot wrong. Or so people assume.

Also, I am sure you are aware of the fact that a captain is only as good as his team. A captain can make a million plans in his head, but its the rest 10 of them that support him and put the plan into practice. Besides when everything is going for you, you don't judge the quality of a captain. A real captain is one who shows his metal when the chips are down. And I am yet to see a match where Dhoni's brilliant captaincy has turned around things when the chips were down to a fabulous victory. Dhoni has been quite lucky that in his tenure as captain people like Gambhir, Yuvraj and others have stuck their prime form of their careers collectively. Other captains haven't been so lucky.
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Old 22nd October 2008, 18:04   #4438
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Anyone noticed Dhoni's gesture when the last Aussie wicket fell ?

Everyone collected around congratulating each other and Dhoni noticed that Ganguly had no stump as a souvenir and he promptly handed the one he was holding to Ganguly. That made my day.
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Old 22nd October 2008, 18:35   #4439
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Mclaren,
I dont think comparing Kumble with Dhoni is a good casestudy.
MSD's primary job is to keep wickets.He is a wicketkeeper batsman.He did his primary job pretty well.And you dont need to go back to 2006 for his best performance.I think you forgot his 90 in Eng 2007 when he saved the match for us.Now Anil's primary job is taking wickets.How much has he done in his primary role is the question that needs to be answered.
I am not criticising Kumble.Taking 600 wickets in Test matches is not a joke.But he has not been in his best recently.

Last edited by jraj : 22nd October 2008 at 18:35. Reason: more info
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Old 22nd October 2008, 19:06   #4440
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Originally Posted by normally_crazy View Post
Anyone noticed Dhoni's gesture when the last Aussie wicket fell ?

Everyone collected around congratulating each other and Dhoni noticed that Ganguly had no stump as a souvenir and he promptly handed the one he was holding to Ganguly. That made my day.
NC in my opinion that was the best gesture one could give to a teammate who is leaving after the series. And that speaks volume of the kind of person he is. Am sure a person like Yuvraj being a captain would have never done so!

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Mclaren,
I dont think comparing Kumble with Dhoni is a good casestudy.
MSD's primary job is to keep wickets.He is a wicketkeeper batsman.He did his primary job pretty well.And you dont need to go back to 2006 for his best performance.I think you forgot his 90 in Eng 2007 when he saved the match for us.Now Anil's primary job is taking wickets.How much has he done in his primary role is the question that needs to be answered.
I am not criticising Kumble.Taking 600 wickets in Test matches is not a joke.But he has not been in his best recently.
Quiet right. Kumble is failing in his primary job - The wicket taker baller. Captaincy is secondary. And if Dhoni is doing both in a good way ofcourse people have a right to say he should be doing it in future as well. No harm in that. Kumble is a champion no doubt and i would love to see a good comeback in Delhi if he plays.
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