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Old 23rd August 2007, 14:11   #466
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Originally Posted by suman View Post
Come on RKS, make at least ONE unqualified observation
Looks like you have not read this thread. I have made many unqualified observations and I have even suggested my own young team for India. I stand by that team with possibly only one place in doubt; I want at least 3 of the "Fab 4" out of the Test team and all of them out of the One-day team. Unqualified enough for you?

I will forever be suspicious of fixing, especially in the one-dayers. Too many of these 7-match series seem to go down to the wire, with the last match being the deciding one. If the series gets decided in 4 games, nobody will show up for the last 3 (except possibly in the cricket-crazy subcontinent) and everybody except the public stands to lose.

Regarding the respective strengths of the two teams, under English conditions favouring seam bowling, England is decidedly superior in both batting and bowling with the return of Flintoff. Our bowling looks weak, with Piyush Chawla and Agarkar struggling and no fifth bowler. Looks like politics has decided in favour of packing our side with batsmen. And Tendu and Gangu at the top of the batting order, with both playing safe and for their personal places in the team, and with the lame-duck Gambhir and defensive Dravid to follow, is not exactly very inspiring either. All I can say at this point is that it is an uphill task for our team.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 14:23   #467
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Yes, the matches were fixed. Dhoni was threatened by Dravid to play slow or else he would loose a place in the team. He would be replaced by none other than Mohd.Azaruddin so that the FAB 5 can fix more matches and make zillions. Rks, do you really enjoy a game? Or do you put your detective skills to use 24x7 and miss the enjoying part?
I think Dhoni probably feels pressured at the thought of being dropped, given the impressive performances of Karthik. After all, Tendu and Gangu and the skipper himself cannot be touched and it is the likes of Dhoni who will have to be sacrificed. There is already one sacrificial lamb picked in Gambhir, so Dhoni is probably next in line, followed by Yuvraj. Wake up and smell the coffee. I am a keen follower of this game and I know what is going on with the Indian team. It is you who refuse to see the obvious and apparently wants to censor any critical comment.

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He is not the only one to have done so. Go back into the history of the game and check. many have done so, changing the way they play over the years (though Sachin might be over doing it). I am not going to do the dirty work for you, since you will never get the point.
Tendu right now is not competitive enough to get picked in any top international team. He will not get picked for Australia, SA, NZ, Pakistan, England or even WI. *You* fail to get that point.

Last edited by rks : 23rd August 2007 at 14:25.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 14:37   #468
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And Tendu and Gangu at the top of the batting order, with both playing safe and for their personal places in the team,.
Ganguly playing for his place in the side? Gimme a break, have a kit-kat. What does he have to lose? This is his last series in England anyway and, as mentioned by MCL, with his consistent scores since his return......
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Originally Posted by rks View Post
and with the lame-duck Gambhir and defensive Dravid to follow, is not exactly very inspiring either. All I can say at this point is that it is an uphill task for our team.
In this case, I agree with the LATTER part of your post.

And by the way, drop the match fixing theory & just enjoy the game (whatever little is enjoyable that is...) - this thread (ever since I've been viewing it) is just full of your match fixing theories
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Old 23rd August 2007, 15:07   #469
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Originally Posted by rks
Wake up and smell the coffee.
Quote:
*You* fail to get that point.
I am GLAD that I don't share your views on the game. You seem to watch the matches only to criticize and not to enjoy them.

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I will forever be suspicious of fixing, especially in the one-dayers.
Why spare the test matches, I will say tests are fixed too? You call yourself a fan? Really? I really think you should stop watching cricket. Specially when you think all matches are fixed. That would spare us a lot of effort from reading your theories or your attempts at being the coach or a detective.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 15:38   #470
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
I am GLAD that I don't share your views on the game. You seem to watch the matches only to criticize and not to enjoy them.
False.
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Why spare the test matches, I will say tests are fixed too? You call yourself a fan? Really? I really think you should stop watching cricket. Specially when you think all matches are fixed. That would spare us a lot of effort from reading your theories or your attempts at being the coach or a detective.
It seems you and Suman are experts in gross exaggeration. When did I assert that I thought "all matches are fixed"? And when did I ever have a theory about match-fixing? It is one thing to have suspicions, quite another to believe what you guys quote about me.

Anyway, apparently Michael Vaughan shares my suspicions:

Cricket is still corrupt, says shell-shocked Vaughan | Cricket World Cup 2007 | Guardian Unlimited Sport

And similar comments by ICC chief Malcolm Speed after Bob Woolmer's death "There is still corruption in World-Cup cricket" or something to that effect.

So as per Mcl, both Vaughan and Malcom Speed are not worthy followers of the game and ought to "stop watching cricket".

Last edited by rks : 23rd August 2007 at 15:39.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 16:10   #471
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Rks, I am really not an expert at anything. Nor will I ever claim to be. Have you applied to coach the Indian Cricket team? They need a coach you know, and your expertize will not only help the team revive their lost glory but will also give us inside information on whats happening.

And while you are at it, look at your previous posts reeled with talks about match fixing. Infact, even IF the matches were fixed I wouldn't care to hoots. Like I said I love to WATCH a good game irrespective of who wins. Even if it is fixed or not really doesn't matter. But what is more surprising is your attitude towards your SUSPICIONS. How come you never spoke about your suspicions about match fixing when Australia kept winning matches in double digits continously. How come you never spoke about match fixing when Bangladesh beat Australia, when India beat Australia, South Africa, Sri Lanka the Champions trophy/WC/ Sharjah cup a few years back.

Or is this criticism reserved to India and its performances only specially when they loose to someone?

Some quotes from the link you provided:

Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughan
the England captain said that while he had no direct evidence or experience of malpractice, his "gut feeling" was that there was still corruption.
So this "gut feeling" is the proof?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vaughan
I have never been approached and hope to God I never will because we don't want to see any of that in the game of cricket."
My "gut feeling" says he is lying and he too might have fixed a match or faked injuries to all his top players threatening them they will be out of the test squad for as long as he is the captain if they dont accept to walk out of the Indian series. Does that prove anything? It doesn't.

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I have never experienced it within any of my teams or with any player I've played with or against but my gut feeling is that there is still something going on in the game.
What is he trying to say? That he has no proof? Or that he needs an appointment with the doctor for his imaginative thinking or gut feeling?

Do you believe the team on paper can beat the Aussies to take over the Ashes? I think Vaughan got the matches fixed against the Aussies. My "gut feeling" says this is true.

I am sure there will be a million other playing cricketers who will say "My gut feeling says there is no match fixing". So will you believe them then?
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Old 23rd August 2007, 16:14   #472
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In Particular our players play for the name written on their shirts @ the back(Individual's Name) rather than for the name @ the front (India). This has been an observation I made long back that we appear damn good one day fighting like an unit hitting a purple patch and then suddenly play worse than minnows.

Just cannot assimilate why is consistency is such a far cry and i think one day unit is more of an ageing unit and fresh legs and talent is a must as bygones are bygones and no one wants to take away credit from the greats but still ..all that matters is to deliver @ the moment when its needed...

I am an avid Sachin Fan but cannot help criticizing his approach and to me apart from his sandstorm innings in Sharjah against Aussies, I can never recollect any heroics where he inched us closer giving a fight...there may be some but certainly its outta my memory as the master blaster is no where close to performing ..if i can say so.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 16:45   #473
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@Mcl, I do not want to continue a futile argument. I quoted Vaughan's "gut feeling" simply to make the point that there are people playing the game today who have suspicions of match fixing. So I am not alone in having such suspicions and of course these suspicions do not constitute proof. I never said so.

I want to clear up just one more point. I said Dhoni might have been playing under the instructions of his skipper, and you related that to match fixing. What I had in mind was something else. That Dravid might have instructed Dhoni to curtail his stroke-play since India were in bad shape at 34-4 and would not have wanted to lose another wicket at that stage. Of course at some point Dhoni should have tried to accelerate, which he never did.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 16:58   #474
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Of course at some point Dhoni should have tried to accelerate, which he never did.
And why didn't he, you think? Because he's just plain dumb or because he took his captain's instructions literally - what, according to you was the reason for that?
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Old 23rd August 2007, 17:26   #475
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And why didn't he, you think? Because he's just plain dumb or because he took his captain's instructions literally - what, according to you was the reason for that?
I have already given you my answer to that in an earlier post; that Dhoni might have fearful of losing his wicket and getting dropped from the team, that he might have found Flintoff's bowling more than a handful, etc. I still find his approach in this innings inexplicable, though. If I were Dravid I would have instructed Dhoni to play his natural game. I have no idea what Dravid actually did, if at all he gave any instructions.

Anyway, here is an article that backs up some of what I have been saying:

Cricinfo - When less can be more

Says India needs a fifth bowler with one batsman dropped, criticizes Gambhir coming in at No. 3, wants to exploit Piyush Chawla's potential as all-rounder, etc.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 17:29   #476
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that Dhoni might have fearful of losing his wicket and getting dropped from the team,
You seriously don't believe that do you? And before you come back & say "I do", I'm outta this thread
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Old 23rd August 2007, 17:33   #477
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You seriously don't believe that do you? And before you come back & say "I do", I'm outta this thread
If Dhoni does not contribute with the bat why would he be selected? We have Karthik who is a front-line wicket-keeper and has kept for India. Given Karthik's outstanding batting, Dhoni is under pressure to perform with the bat. If you can't understand this, then it is time for you to stop thinking about such matters.

Edit: I personally think Dhoni is a better keeper than Karthik and a very capable batsman. So he should not be dropped, and instead one or more of the "Fab 4" should get the axe. But that is not the way it works in the real world.

Edit 2: Mcl, Khaadu and others, kindly answer me on cricketing grounds and forget irrelevancies like my becoming coach of India, etc. I have already quoted an article in my previous post that backs up what I have been saying, which makes perfect cricketing sense. Anybody other than the wilfully blind can see these issues and the rotten politics that continues to affect our team selection policy.

Last edited by rks : 23rd August 2007 at 17:42.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 17:37   #478
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Its time you stopped this banter of trying to pretend to be the coach or who you speculate MIGHT have said what to whom or whose gut feeling is the same as yours. Or pretend to be the know it all of the Indian Cricket scenario.

Suman, wait for me. I do not want to get stuck here alone. Wait, I hear Khaadu screaming "wait for me too" in the background

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Old 23rd August 2007, 18:51   #479
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Mclaren1885, rks, Suman.

Please keep the discussion clean and no personal attacks. Otherwise mod team will be forced to take action.

Thanks.
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Old 23rd August 2007, 19:25   #480
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To get the discussion back on track, let me again cite the following article:

Cricinfo - When less can be more

Quote:
Whatever happened to that tried and trusted theory of your best batsman coming in at No. 3? [...] India need to stop sending Gautam Gambhir in at such a pivotal position. [...]

The problem over No. 3 is nothing compared to the muddle around No. 7. Since the time Robin Singh stowed away his kit-bag, that spot has been largely vacant. Mohammad Kaif filled the void briefly but he was soon shuffled around too often before he finally found himself out of the side. Suresh Raina was picked out as India's next great No. 7 before everyone realised he was too young for such a vital job. Dinesh Karthik is the latest to be tried but the first question India must ask themselves is: do we need seven specialist batsmen?

The lack of an allrounder is obviously a major handicap but what stops India from reposing their faith in six batsmen? Would it be too much to demand a few handy scores from Piyush Chawla? One gets the feeling that Chawla is being underused here. A batsman with seven first-class half-centuries, good at rotating the strike, cannot come out as low as No. 8. Chawla may not have the batting capabilities of an Irfan Pathan but he, Ajit Agarkar and Ramesh Powar (India's fifth bowling option) need to combine their all-round talents.

The longer India play four bowlers, the more chance that either Zaheer Khan or RP Singh get injured. Dravid himself felt that there was only so much blame one could place on the bowlers and that it was the batsmen who needed to show some steel. It may sound ridiculous after their batting collapsed so badly but India need to take the bold step of playing five bowlers.
Those who have been following this thread will probably realize that I have been making almost exactly the same points. Except that I would like to go further and axe the "Fab 4" and bring back Kaif, Pathan and Powar. Why a batsman of the calibre of Kaif is dropped and people like Gambhir and Uthappa are brought in, is still a big mystery to me.

Last edited by rks : 23rd August 2007 at 19:28.
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