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Old 27th August 2007, 23:25   #526
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Dhoni is becoming a worrying factor now. I guess if he continues like this then he will be known as a batsman who can beat the pulp out of other bowlers on a patya wicket but on a slightly helpful wicket...hmm.

Powar and Chawla have to take more responsibilty while batting if we are playing 5 bowlers. Ganguly again too slow. As McL says the english bowling started bowling short to him but then again in a career of more than a decade if Ganguly cant work his way around short pitched bowling in the one day format then I do not know what to say. He cant get away by saying that he is bad player of short pitched bowling. Less said about Sachin the better as it was another major failure when chasing. And what kind of a wierd shot was that - the one which he got out to. Kartick almost replayed it to perfection. :(

Dravid has been a revelation in the last 2 matches but I am loving the way he is attacking the bowling. Hope he continues like this. Yuvraj again showed why he cannot be replaced with a sublime innings while for a change Kartick failed.

Munaf - I never felt he was a medium bowler forget fast, he bowls at 120 kmph while I saw Yuvraj bowl at 110 kmph ...so he is strictly medium but more accurate than Agarkar and Zaheer.

I would still prefer Agarkar over Munaf in the team. I guess Uttappa should get in the team in place of Dhoni for the next match and Agarkar for Munaf. Lets see.
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Old 28th August 2007, 00:05   #527
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Dhoni is becoming a worrying factor now. I guess if he continues like this then he will be known as a batsman who can beat the pulp out of other bowlers on a patya wicket but on a slightly helpful wicket...hmm.
[...]
Powar and Chawla have to take more responsibilty while batting if we are playing 5 bowlers.

Munaf - I never felt he was a medium bowler forget fast, he bowls at 120 kmph while I saw Yuvraj bowl at 110 kmph ...so he is strictly medium but more accurate than Agarkar and Zaheer.

I would still prefer Agarkar over Munaf in the team. I guess Uttappa should get in the team in place of Dhoni for the next match and Agarkar for Munaf. Lets see.
When Dhoni came in to bat the asking rate was about 7 an over. And still higher when Powar and Chawla came in. So they perished going for extravagant shots. They ought to have rotated the strike and left it to Yuvraj, who was going great guns.

Uthappa is a very aggressive player, but I think in bowler-friendly conditions Dhoni is still a better bet. And the strain of wicket-keeping might affect Karthik's batting. So it would be a tough call to drop Dhoni, but it will happen sooner or later if Dhoni fails to deliver with the bat.

I think Munaf was clocked at 85 mph (136 kmph) in the previous game, which is a pretty decent pace. Only Flintoff was quicker, from either team. That is why both of these bowlers break down frequently with injuries. Maybe India should keep Munaf mainly for Tests, so that his career does not get destroyed by injuries.
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Old 28th August 2007, 00:23   #528
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Munaf is slightly faster than my grandma man, otherwise my grandma was more active & stronger . I seriously wonder what did you find in him.
Note: RP Singh is clocking 140+.
Batting looks stable. True that they didn't click today. I feel dada is losing it. He can't play his trademark off-side drives. He tries to hits out of trouble - sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Sehwag should be brought back into the team in place of dada. That will add the sting to the batting and his knack of taking wickets will add to the bowling.

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When Dhoni came in to bat the asking rate was about 7 an over. And still higher when Powar and Chawla came in. So they perished going for extravagant shots. They ought to have rotated the strike and left it to Yuvraj, who was going great guns.

Uthappa is a very aggressive player, but I think in bowler-friendly conditions Dhoni is still a better bet. And the strain of wicket-keeping might affect Karthik's batting. So it would be a tough call to drop Dhoni, but it will happen sooner or later if Dhoni fails to deliver with the bat.

I think Munaf was clocked at 85 mph (136 kmph) in the previous game, which is a pretty decent pace. Only Flintoff was quicker, from either team. That is why both of these bowlers break down frequently with injuries. Maybe India should keep Munaf mainly for Tests, so that his career does not get destroyed by injuries.
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Old 28th August 2007, 00:24   #529
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I thought the batting was ok .It had some good performances but the target was too steep. The bowling apart from the spinners was bad. RP keeps bowling lenght in the end overs so much so that batsmen 8&9 plundered him for 15 of the last over. Munaf was supposed to be India's quickest bowler. No international batsman is going to be troubled at 125kmph and that too bowling short .
By the looks of it India doesn't have any seamers in the squad who are playing well(apart from Zaheer). They are forced to play 2 out of agarkar, RP and Munaf.
To boot neither RP or Munaf are the slickest of fielders.
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Old 28th August 2007, 12:19   #530
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Munaf is slightly faster than my grandma man, otherwise my grandma was more active & stronger . I seriously wonder what did you find in him.
Note: RP Singh is clocking 140+.
Munaf is coming back from injury. Presumably he lost pace due to that. Look at his record; it is very good in both Tests and one-dayers. He needs time to find his feet again. But I suspect he will be dumped and forgotten, like Pathan.
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Old 28th August 2007, 12:36   #531
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Ok, here it comes the missing part:
Sachin came, saw the asking rate. He said to himself, I am bad at chasing, too much pressure to maintaing required rate. Let me relax in the dressing room. So he gives a lolly pop at gully and is back.
Ganguly after batting for sometime said to himself: I have scored enough so that they don't drop for next 10 ODIs. I am tired now, can't run for those bloody singles. Let me relax, before that let me hit a six. So saying he tried a massive shot but ended up getting caught behind.

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So much for giving chance to youngsters! First RP drops a dolly. Then he misses a run out. Karthik tries a Jonty and misses another run out. Sloppy fielding by almost all. Then Karthik gets out for a duck. Dhoni & Powar are equally disappointing. Yuvi gets cramps the minute he realizes he is out of partners and subsequently commits suicide. It was a day of let downs by our youngsters.
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Old 28th August 2007, 19:40   #532
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I am back after a long break. I think our seniors need a kick up the backside. who are they fooling. Look at the running between the wickets. we should have scored at least 350 in the 2nd match.

Cheers everyone. at last we have one ODI victory in the bag. hope for more to come.
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Old 29th August 2007, 11:19   #533
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At least after getting off to a start Ganguly needs to increase the scoring rate so that there is less pressure on the other batsmen and they too can take some time to settle down. Same applies to Tendulkar.
Why Ganguly & Tendulkar alone? 72 off 104 b alls, what's wrong with that for an opener? Incredible double standards here I'm afraid.
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Old 29th August 2007, 12:12   #534
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Why Ganguly & Tendulkar alone? 72 off 104 b alls, what's wrong with that for an opener? Incredible double standards here I'm afraid.
Suman ,

When Dravid came in India was 2 down. Dravid started attacking from the first ball. He was getting 10 runs an over and at the same time at the other end Ganguly was getting 2-3 runs per over. Mind you all this when we had to score at approx 6.5-7 runs per over.

And he had 9X4 and 1X6 - 42 runs in 10 b alls and the balance 30 runs in 94 b alls. Also we could see that Dravid was talking to Ganguly and asking him to speed up, which never happened.

So it is not double standards. It doesn't matter how many runs you score - it is how those runs are scored in a particular situation that matters to the team.
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Old 29th August 2007, 12:25   #535
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Ganguly is past his prime and he knows it. Yet every innings is a gritty one. After his comeback he is performing in every innings (almost). He has his weekness - short pitch, running between the wickets, fielding. But is someone there to replace him????

Sachin. Big time over the hill. He should hand his boots gracefully. A great player like him should be laughed at. He cant play the in coming ball nor the short pitch on his off. Reflexes way tooo slow. Good fielder. Bowling?????

Dravid. Good batsman. Not a great captain. Expiry date close by.

Yuvraj. Has the potential to be a great batsman for the last 8-10 yrs. Was a great fielder. But you can see him loosing his edge after his knee prob.

Dhoni will be Dhoni. A long way for him to go to be a good wicketkeeper. His batting needs to be more consistent. Needs to figure out his batting on bowler friendly wickets.

The Indians have the most ex[perienced batting line up in the world. but if you check out how many of them are in the top 10 or even 20 in the current rating you will be surprised.Experience is good but not evrything.

Munaf seems to be focussed on prolonging his career by just landing up for the match and preserving his energy for the next. Can someone tell him that there may not be a next match for him if he continues like this.

India has problem with fast bowlers Look at what happened to Nehra, Pathan, Balaji, Harbajan etc. There are either not physically fit or mentaly fit. I think we need to focus on the grass root level so that after 4/6 yrs we can have a good team. Jai Hind.
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Old 29th August 2007, 12:43   #536
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So it is not double standards. It doesn't matter how many runs you score - it is how those runs are scored in a particular situation that matters to the team.
NC I do agree with you on the highlighted bit. However, lets also not forget that as there was no crisis YET at that point so wild swinging of bats from both ends was not required in my opinion. And I think you are assuming that Dravid was asking him to speed up - do you know for sure that he wasn't asking him to keep one end going?

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Old 29th August 2007, 12:54   #537
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However, lets also not forget that as there was no crisis YET at that point so wild swinging of bats from both ends was not required in my opinion.
Agreed there was no need for wild swinging of the bats but the least he could do was take singles and get Dravid on strike as Dravid was in sublime touch. Also with Ganguly - doubles were easily turned in singles when running between the wickets. And yeah at least I would think that if we require around 7 runs per over - it is a situation that is turning into a crisis if not already a crisis.

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And I think you are assuming that Dravid was asking him to speed up - do you know for sure that he wasn't asking him to keep one end going?
Yes I am assuming this. From whatever I saw of their conversations, it was certainly a call for speeding up but then I could be wrong too as I am no expert on reading lips on TV.
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Old 29th August 2007, 13:16   #538
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Someone seems to be forgetting the mantra of keeping wickets in hand for the final onslaught (though that never happened). And I am sure Dravid asked Saurav to calm down atleast twice when Saurav played a loose shot. His usual raising of the palm gesture.

I saw no need why they had to wildly swing their bats at every ball since till almost the time two of the Fab 4 were playing the run rate was as good as Englands. If our youngsters really can't cope up with the pressures of playing under crunch situations then they really shouldn't be complaining that they had to have a go right from ball 1. Look at India's past and see how many matches the same very kids have done it. Kanithkar at Dhaka, Yuvi & Kaif at Natwest Trophy, Dhoni against Pakistan, its countless.
So that would really be the last excuse on my mind.
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Old 29th August 2007, 13:47   #539
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Ganguly and Tendulkar are both playing defensivley. At least at one end we should have an attacking operier. This time it was 35-0 after 10 overs, as opposed to 39-0 in the previous game. England this time were close to 50, with Prior being their attacking opener.

The mantra of keeping wickets in hand and scoring slowly till the final overs is always dangerous, because we could end up losing wickets in a heap when the final assault is on. And the logic behind that mantra is that the set top-order batsman can accelerate at will when the assault is on. When a batsman plays defensively, gets settled and then loses his wicket before he can accelerate, he sets back the team's cause and puts pressure on the incoming batsman.

Ganguly was justified in being cautious after India lost a couple of wickets, given that Dravid was doing the job at the other end. But he never accelerated, and kept going at about 4 runs an over when the intiital asking rate was closer to 6 and climbing steeply. With our 5-bowler policy working well, we need the top-order batsmen to take more responsibility in accelerating the run rate and not leave too much to do for the likes of Powar and Chawla.

Last edited by rks : 29th August 2007 at 13:55.
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Old 29th August 2007, 14:11   #540
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Rks, all that theory on when and who and how to accelerate looks really good on paper. Though on field conditions will be different. All I am saying is compare the run rate with England at 10, 15, 20, 30, 40 overs. See how close it all was. If the England youngsters with just as many wickets could do it why not our youngsters? Answer is as simple as that.

Don't say it was the pressure of chasing et all. Team batting first will never know what to aim at. Those the team chasing will always know their target, hence it makes their life easy.

This thread seems to be a war of ego's and not for appreciating the game in itself. Everyone knows the white cricket ball swings in the first 10 overs and England wickets favours seam conditions. Equate that into your analysis too on why the runs are less in the 1st 10 overs. Also learn to give some credit to the Englishmen for the wonderful game they played. Ganguly would have gotten atleast another 5 boundaries had the Englishmen fielded like us. Their fielding in the end won them their game. Give some credit to where its due rather than just whining about how bad our team played.
England played a much better game overall and WON. Thats the way it should be.
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