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Old 18th August 2011, 14:53   #6106
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Amazed to see so many doubting the greatest batsman India has produced.
This is the problem with us. One series goes wrong and people start questioning his committment towards country.
We just cant respect and cherish our legends.
Do you all see this kind of debate for Lara, warne, murali etc who are greats of their own country?
He is human and humans do fail at times.
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Old 18th August 2011, 16:19   #6107
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Too bad we will not see one of our better batsmen playing in the 4th test - Praveen Kumar
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Old 18th August 2011, 16:32   #6108
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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Woo hoo, now you've gone and done it!

Hope you're wearing a flame-proof jacket. you're going to need it!

IMO, Sachin is a genius too. The records speak for themselves. A double-century in ODIs, more than 30,000 runs in international cricket, 2-decades of being at the crease and doing everything he possibly can. Those glorious cover-drives and straight drives. Few can play those shots better than him. His exquisite timing is unmatched, and he can systematically destroy the opposition.

He has been in the form of his life, off late and doesn't seem to lose steam.

Not just that, he's a mentor to so many players in our team. A great figure.

Yes, Ponting does fall under the 'genius' category. But what has he done in the last one year? Not much. Ponting's time is coming up. And so is Tendulkar's. And let me ask you this. Who is ahead of who?

It's as simple as that.
Well I'll stand by what I said. Not all greats are geniuses. Sachin is probably the greatest batsman ever (greatest I've seen play) but is he a genius? For me he is not! The only batting geniuses I have seen play are Lara, Ponting and Sir Viv.

Tendulkar is definitely ahead of Ponting in every other parameter though. In terms of personality, runs scored, humility, class and everything off pitch. Its just when it comes to defining genius, he falls little short of the Aussie man.

I'll tell you what. I graduated from the premier-most Engg college here in India. In our class of 62, there were at least 2 guys who I felt were pure geniuses. They didnt top the class (one was even behind me, while I was somewhere in the middle ranks) but still I feel they were geniuses (many of my other batchmates also concur this). There was another guy in another dept (maths) who was pure genius (in maths only, he would top some courses and flunk some!!!)

"Genius" is a quality. Maybe you feel (and maybe many others also) that Tendulkar is one. But I just never happened to feel that! And this coming from one of Tendulkar's biggest fan!

Its the same in some other sports as well. The other sport I follow apart from Cricket is Football (I follow Manchester United). There used to be a player called Eric Cantona who is not really counted amongst the games greats. But was he a genius? You bet! The things he could do with the ball!!! Now they have a player called Dimitar Berbatov who again is not counted amongst top players but he definitely is a genius!
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Old 18th August 2011, 19:39   #6109
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Can someone define to me what is a genius with respect to cricket?
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Old 18th August 2011, 20:08   #6110
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I guess joslicx meant was 'natural born genius' vis a vis 'hard-working genius'. Nevertheless, both are genius.

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Originally Posted by motortechie View Post
Now when a legend like dravid can make compromises and open the innings when the situation demanded what stops sachin from making a small compromise to bat at No.3 or open the innings instead of batting at No.4 as a stop gap arrangement?
This could be the reason why Sachin doesn't have a triple century. The recent 300s are scored by openers or No 3. By the time No 4 crosses 200+, either the innings ends or is declared.

Last edited by msdivy : 18th August 2011 at 20:18. Reason: Reply to motortechie.
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Old 18th August 2011, 21:18   #6111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msdivy
This could be the reason why Sachin doesn't have a triple century. The recent 300s are scored by openers or No 3. By the time No 4 crosses 200+, either the innings ends or is declared.
Someone should tell this to Sachin. He may decide to open in tests
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Old 18th August 2011, 21:39   #6112
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@Spitfire

Mate, I agree with every word u have posted here. I feel like some one else writing on my behalf. Probably, playing pro cricket makes both of us realize the astonishing talent Sachin has and also the pain and rigors he has to keep going through to play at 39.
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Old 18th August 2011, 21:53   #6113
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Probably, playing pro cricket makes both of us realize the astonishing talent Sachin has and also the pain and rigors he has to keep going through to play at 39.
Now we talking. Really man, good to have you on board.

Maybe we can together bring on a semblance of what it takes to be in the top flight group of cricketers in this country.

And purely on talent today there is no one who can replace people like - Sachin, Dravid, Laxman and a few more.
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Old 18th August 2011, 22:29   #6114
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Originally Posted by SilentEngine View Post
Someone should tell this to Sachin. He may decide to open in tests
That is very unlikey to happen . I dont see him moving out of No.4 in tests. Its the other players(dravid/laxman) who would have to compromise their batting position based on team needs.
Sachin believes that whats good for him is good for the team whereas dravid/laxman believe that whats good for the team is good for them

Last edited by motortechie : 18th August 2011 at 22:46.
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Old 18th August 2011, 23:02   #6115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motortechie View Post
That is very unlikey to happen . I dont see him moving out of No.4 in tests. Its the other players(dravid/laxman) who would have to compromise their batting position based on team needs.
Sachin believes that whats good for him is good for the team whereas dravid/laxman believe that whats good for the team is good for them
For your information only.

The captain decides that. Have you been to a game to see Sachin asking for a particular spot?

Try and be objective about this man. You think this is a game being played between your chaddi mates? That someone can be stubborn of a position and he will get it.

Remember you are talking about some thoroughly professional people here bounded by contracts.
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Old 18th August 2011, 23:02   #6116
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Now we talking. Really man, good to have you on board.

Maybe we can together bring on a semblance of what it takes to be in the top flight group of cricketers in this country.

And purely on talent today there is no one who can replace people like - Sachin, Dravid, Laxman and a few more.
Before facing a real cricket ball in my life, I used to dream of my international debut, facing THE Wasim and THE Waqar and punching my first ball, which landed just back of good length, past umpire to the long-on boundary. In real life, facing the "lolly-pop" (Disclaimer: not my words, but Michel Vaughn terming this to Praveen K bowling in early one 120s) bowlers, who constantly pitch it back of length moving the ball away from the wickets on the trot and then making one to Nip back sharp to hit the knuckles/midriff/ box, struggling to get one past the square, for maybe a session, the respect I have for Sachin, dravid and the likes soars sky high every day. I can only imagine what it will be like hooking a Donald/ Caddick / Shoaib / Wasim / Waqar/ Styne/ Brett lee out of the ground.

Edit: I captain my side too. Never ever, did anyone challenge the batting order that I asked for. The team management (Captain + coach + Senior members) decides the probable batting order which we usually play and not tinker with at all. but there have been instances where I have changed the order if I feel so. No one complains. my take on it: I listen to all the advices, evaluate what to do, but at the end of the day, it is the captain's prerogative to decide.

Last edited by MrinalSinha : 18th August 2011 at 23:09.
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Old 19th August 2011, 01:08   #6117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
For your information only.

The captain decides that. Have you been to a game to see Sachin asking for a particular spot?

Try and be objective about this man. You think this is a game being played between your chaddi mates? That someone can be stubborn of a position and he will get it.

Remember you are talking about some thoroughly professional people here bounded by contracts.
Oh come on man!! Now you are denying that Sachin refuses to bat anywhere but at number 4 in tests??
Of course Sachin can be stubborn. People treat him like a GOD afterall.
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Old 19th August 2011, 07:50   #6118
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For your information only.

The captain decides that. Have you been to a game to see Sachin asking for a particular spot?
In 2006/2007 sachin was asked by dravid/chappal to bat in the middle order for ODI.They reasoned that it would bolster the middle order.However we all know sachin played with lack of enthusiasm.He made no bones about the fact that he would like to open and eventually he had to bought back to his favorite batting position i.e opening which he does with great enthusiasm .

There is a difference when you are captaining a college/corporate team and the Indian cricket team.A college/corporate team no matter how good it is would not have legends of the stature like sachin/dravid/laxman in their team.No captain can force players like dravid/sachin/laxman to do what they dont want to do. At the most they can request them but cant order them to do so.
.
I dont think Dhoni could have forced dravid to open if he had refused to do so. VVS has already made it clear that he wouldnt want to open in tests.Hence he is not asked to open. It is no secret that dravid likes batting at no.3 but yet he is game to open when the need arises.Heck he even did it when he was out of form in 2007/2008 against the aussies when he could have easily refused to do so.

All i wish is that sachin shows the same enthusiasm to open in tests(only when need arises) as he does in ODI .When sehwag can open in both tests and odi i am sure sachin can volunteer to do it at least as a stop gap arrangement in tests.If not volunteer to open he can at least volunteer to bat at No.3 . I will find it hard to believe that sachin's request will be turned down by Dhoni
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Old 19th August 2011, 09:00   #6119
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Of course Sachin can be stubborn. People treat him like a GOD afterall.
Based on what do you say that?

He has a say but he getting into a huff and playing like a child at a position he does not like is basically going too far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motortechie View Post
In 2006/2007 sachin was asked by dravid/chappal to bat in the middle order for ODI.They reasoned that it would bolster the middle order.However we all know sachin played with lack of enthusiasm.He made no bones about the fact that he would like to open and eventually he had to bought back to his favorite batting position i.e opening which he does with great enthusiasm .
And this is based on what? News reports? Commentators? Or you guys manage to get into the dressing rooms to witness all this?

I will tell you what my answers to you guys is based on. Have you ever signed a contract to play under the norms of BCCI?

You think because Sachin is a God on the streets so he can go beyond the contractual norms?

And Rahul Dravid being a milder guy gets kicked around? You think that's true?

Oh Rahul listen you take the gloves this match and I will bowl. I am the Captain afterall. Again you think this is chaddi yaaron ka cricket? And a Rahul Dravid will take it?

The captain is there for a reason. It is not like the best allrounder in your galli team becomes one.

What you guys believe in is masala spun out by the media and arm-chair experts.

Somewhere down the lines we fans need to realize that it is not some jhonny-come-lately who are in our national side. With the huge amount of interest and money it generates it has become a very strong case for good talent to get through.

Having said that. Politics and of the horrible kind is still a part and parcel of Indian cricket.

Talented players like Dhoni still make it to the top ranks based on sheer talent. And these are the right signs.
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Old 19th August 2011, 11:08   #6120
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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
What are you smoking? Why cant we expect a talented youngster to deliver? On one hand you say we cant expect younster to deliver. On other you say we cant keep relying on aging stars to deliver. Then who should play???
Sports globally are becoming a younger phenomenon. How old were the likes of Nadal, Messi, Ronaldo, Rooney, Woods, Nikhil Advani (he plays snooker and was a champion at 18), Anand, Alonso (of Motorsports) were when they became champions and world famous??? Why cant our youngsters emulate them?
What i said is you can't expect any youngster, no matter how talented he is to start delivering from day one.
All the youngsters whom you mentioned didn't win their Championship title in their first outing itself. Not all talents have fairytale starts like Boris Becker.

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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
What else is the duty of a batsman if not to score runs and not get out? How does it matter if you score runs playing safe shots (which should be seen as a positive if you ask me!!!)!
What i meant was, when you play 70 balls in a T20 match what's the use if you score a little more than 'a run a ball'? That's why in almost all of MI's innings it was left to Pollard to do the rescue act. And whenever he failed they lost.
Strike rate matters more in T20 than 'orange caps' or 50s and 100's.
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