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Old 23rd March 2012, 14:50   #6856
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. Yeah. His celebration after hitting the ton during Adeliade test was classic. He forgot where the ball was costing us a run.
Which is why we lost that Adelaide test too.
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Old 25th March 2012, 19:06   #6857
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India news: Sachin Tendulkar says it would be "selfish" to retire now | India Cricket News | ESPN Cricinfo

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He said it would be "selfish" to make an exit when he was "on top" of his game. Tendulkar also lashed out at some of the former India cricketers who had suggested he should follow Rahul Dravid in retiring, saying they had no business making decisions for him.

"When I feel I don't have that, on that day, I will think of retirement," Tendulkar said at a media conference in Mumbai, convened by his brand managers World Sports Group to celebrate his achievement of scoring 100 international hundreds. "I feel those who say you should retire at the top are selfish," he said, "because when you are at the top, you should serve the country instead of retiring.

"When I retire is something I will decide because when I started it was not decided by someone else. Those who are advising me about retirement did not bring me into the team. I get my strength from my coaches and family."
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Posted by maulikshah17 on (March 25 2012, 12:54 PM GMT)
He had a miserable run in England and Australia. What exactly does he mean by being "on top" of his game?
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Old 25th March 2012, 19:26   #6858
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If you take the last 4 test series, India have played

Ind in SA - SRT had the highest aggregate and average - 326 runs @ 81.50. He scored 2 100's in that series - no other Indian scored a century.

Ind in Eng - SRT had the 2nd highest aggregate - 273 runs @ 34.12

WI in Ind - SRT had 218 runs @ 43.60

Ind in Aus - SRT had the 2nd highest aggregate - 287 runs @ 35.87

So he is surely not at the top of his game - but at the same time, there would be a lot of other batsmen who would need to be dropped before him -Sehwag, Laxman, Gambhir etc.

It's only now after 4 years that we have found a replacement for Ganguly - i.e. Kohli. Now that Dravid has retired - one more spot opens up. Let's try to find a replacement for him before we force SRT to retire.

And a recent article by Manjrekar had an excellent point - we need to find 4 decent bowlers first - that's more important than batsmen if we have to win tests outside India. That's why we didn't win all that many matches outside India even when SRT, Dravid, Ganguly and VSS were at the top of their games. When India plays outside India, we usually have one good bowler (Srinath, Zaheer etc) and other duds - we would have to have 4 Bradmans batting for us if we had to win a lot of matches with that kind of bowling. We always won in India because we had a couple of bowlers who were outstanding at home (Kumble etc) and others who were decent.
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Old 25th March 2012, 21:07   #6859
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If you take the last 4 test series, India have played

Ind in SA - SRT had the highest aggregate and average - 326 runs @ 81.50. He scored 2 100's in that series - no other Indian scored a century.

Ind in Eng - SRT had the 2nd highest aggregate - 273 runs @ 34.12

WI in Ind - SRT had 218 runs @ 43.60

Ind in Aus - SRT had the 2nd highest aggregate - 287 runs @ 35.87

So he is surely not at the top of his game - but at the same time, there would be a lot of other batsmen who would need to be dropped before him -Sehwag, Laxman, Gambhir etc.

It's only now after 4 years that we have found a replacement for Ganguly - i.e. Kohli. Now that Dravid has retired - one more spot opens up. Let's try to find a replacement for him before we force SRT to retire.

And a recent article by Manjrekar had an excellent point - we need to find 4 decent bowlers first - that's more important than batsmen if we have to win tests outside India. That's why we didn't win all that many matches outside India even when SRT, Dravid, Ganguly and VSS were at the top of their games. When India plays outside India, we usually have one good bowler (Srinath, Zaheer etc) and other duds - we would have to have 4 Bradmans batting for us if we had to win a lot of matches with that kind of bowling. We always won in India because we had a couple of bowlers who were outstanding at home (Kumble etc) and others who were decent.

This is an excellent post. People dont realise how incredibly lucky we are to have Sachin play for us for the last 22 odd years.

although I would argue Gambhir is the Ganguly replacement! Kohli is Dravid's (but he looks like he can be Tendulkar's replacement in the long run.) We still need to find a batsman good enough to replace Laxman (that means play like a superhuman against aussies and like crap against anybody else)

India's weaklink, as you have rightly identified,has always been our bowling. sachin all this time has always been the easiest scapegoat for all/any failures in the last 20 years which is so pathetic of all of us.
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Old 25th March 2012, 21:19   #6860
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although I would argue Gambhir is the Ganguly replacement! Kohli is Dravid's (but he looks like he can be Tendulkar's replacement in the long run.) We still need to find a batsman good enough to replace Laxman (that means play like a superhuman against aussies and like crap against anybody else)
If I were choosing the test team, first thing I would do is to make sure Yuvraj and Raina aren't given more chances. We have wasted enough matches on them. I would try Pujara & Rahane for a year before anyone else. I would make sure Rohit Sharma plays the full domestic season (Ranji etc). He has had a good domestic season last year, but I think he needs to prove himself for at least another season.
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Old 25th March 2012, 21:32   #6861
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If I were choosing the test team, first thing I would do is to make sure Yuvraj and Raina aren't given more chances. We have wasted enough matches on them. I would try Pujara & Rahane for a year before anyone else. I would make sure Rohit Sharma plays the full domestic season (Ranji etc). He has had a good domestic season last year, but I think he needs to prove himself for at least another season.
Yuvraj is way better than you make him out to be.

While Raina is a true flat-track specialist, Yuvraj can adapt, and is a sweet timer of the ball. In form, he can be very dangerous. People have forgotten so quickly that Yuvraj had a lot to do with our World Cup victory.

I'd keep Raina and Yusuf Pathan strictly for T20s. And I'd give Robin Uthappa another chance.

We need new bowlers. It's as simple as that.
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Old 25th March 2012, 22:55   #6862
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Yuvraj is way better than you make him out to be.

While Raina is a true flat-track specialist, Yuvraj can adapt, and is a sweet timer of the ball. In form, he can be very dangerous. People have forgotten so quickly that Yuvraj had a lot to do with our World Cup victory.
Well, the World Cup was played on flat tracks.
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Old 25th March 2012, 23:11   #6863
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^^ Yes, but Yuvraj is a far better player than even Raina. He is no great. But he is a gutsy Cricketer. Like I said, he can adapt.

And he can be effective with the ball too. And his record against England is worth a look.
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Old 25th March 2012, 23:27   #6864
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^^ Yes, but Yuvraj is a far better player than even Raina. He is no great. But he is a gutsy Cricketer. Like I said, he can adapt.

And he can be effective with the ball too. And his record against England is worth a look.

Please look at my original post - I am talking about tests - I am saying no more chances for Yuvraj & Raina in tests.

I am not sure what kind of 'adapt'ing Yuvraj has shown in tests.

He has played only 1 match in England till date.
As a bowler, he has taken 9 wickets in 37 matches. His batting average in 21 matches outside India is less than 30. His average in Australia and NZ in 5 matches is 18. His average in 4 matches in WI is 18. I don't know when he is going to adapt.
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Old 25th March 2012, 23:33   #6865
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^^ Thank you for that.

Was under the impression that he has a good record overseas as well.

If he is selected now, it would be great to see him d well, and replicate some of that WC success. I know, comebacks are never easy, more so for someone like Yuvraj. But he is known to make comebacks. Let's hope for the best.

I have no faith in our Country's test-team. The only real 'test-players' India has produced in the last 20 years were Tendulkar, Dravid and to a certain extent, Laxman.
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Old 26th March 2012, 12:27   #6866
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Let's try to find a replacement for him before we force SRT to retire.
I don't know how we the armchair and keyboard critics can 'FORCE' an excellent proven sportsman to retire. Did we identify him, coach him and get him to play for India ? Or did we stand by him in times of trouble ? I don't know how we the 'ardent (read also as stupid)' fans could determine what he should/should not do with his life. We should learn to respect our heroes and not humiliate them.

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People dont realise how incredibly lucky we are to have Sachin play for us for the last 22 odd years.
Very true. Also we continue to see the great player play and we should be happy for that. I am sure he will quit the game as soon as he knows that he is not needed anymore.

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sachin all this time has always been the easiest scapegoat for all/any failures in the last 20 years which is so pathetic of all of us.
No one has carried the hopes and dreams of an entire nation like he has done. Everytime he goes out to bat, the whole nation expects and he has delivered more times than not, even now. But come the hard times and we are the first ones to dump him and call for his blood. He has learnt to shut out the world and do what he does best. This has helped him to flourish and he will continue to do so inspite of what his dear 'ardent' fans feel.
I personally cannot wait to see him bat again with his usual freedom. Watch out England, there is going to be some payback.
Go Sachin Go,
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Old 26th March 2012, 14:46   #6867
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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
If you take the last 4 test series, India have played

Ind in SA - SRT had the highest aggregate and average - 326 runs @ 81.50. He scored 2 100's in that series - no other Indian scored a century.

Ind in Eng - SRT had the 2nd highest aggregate - 273 runs @ 34.12

WI in Ind - SRT had 218 runs @ 43.60

Ind in Aus - SRT had the 2nd highest aggregate - 287 runs @ 35.87

So he is surely not at the top of his game - but at the same time, there would be a lot of other batsmen who would need to be dropped before him -Sehwag, Laxman, Gambhir etc.
Thanks for briniging up the stats Carboy. Just goes to show how the negative media coverage can create the perception that he is a complete failure during past year and should retire.
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Old 26th March 2012, 15:22   #6868
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Statistics are such a useful tool to portray any side of an argument. Specially when used standalone. Here is what happens when you use stats to do a comparison, which is what they should be used for.

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
If you take the last 4 test series, India have played

Ind in SA - SRT had the highest aggregate and average - 326 runs @ 81.50. He scored 2 100's in that series - no other Indian scored a century
Cricinfo is not taking me so much back in time on the series page, so i will let this be.
EDIT: Just found out the stats page for the series. And i will give this one to Sachin. He was in a good form back than.
Thats when he got his 99th ton, right?

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Ind in Eng - SRT had the 2nd highest aggregate - 273 runs @ 34.12
Highest for India was Dravid, with 461 runs. See the difference? And overall SRT was 5th highest.

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
WI in Ind - SRT had 218 runs @ 43.60
He was only the 6th highest run scorer, with Dravid, Laxman and Sehwag, all three scoring more than him. Laxman even has an average of 99.33

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Ind in Aus - SRT had the 2nd highest aggregate - 287 runs @ 35.87
In Commonwealth series, he is 18th highest, with even Dhoni scoring more than him! In tests, overall he is 5th highest, with the relatively inexperienced Kohli outscoring him.

A "world class" batsman should be compared with other world class batsmen, and that should not be limited to only the country he plays for.
It is undeniable the joy SRT has brought to the Indian cricket fans. What is sad to see is that there are more SRT fans than Indian Team fans.

Last edited by amitoj : 26th March 2012 at 15:28.
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Old 26th March 2012, 16:17   #6869
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Read this somewhere after the England Tour. This was after Dravid played the role of makeshift opener in tests something that SRT does not do in tests inspite of doing so in ODI's(BTW he refuses to budge from No.4 position too)

"SRT thinks that whats good for him is good for the team whereas Dravid thinks thats whats good for the team is good for him"

So i am not surprised that SRT would quit when he desires because he believes that what he does is good.
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Old 26th March 2012, 16:42   #6870
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A "world class" batsman should be compared with other world class batsmen, and that should not be limited to only the country he plays for.
+1. If we wish to reclaim the number one spot then will have to benchmark ourselves against the best players in the world.

There lies our biggest challenge. IMO some of the players in our team are not even worthy to be a part of state level teams in countries like Australia.
While a player like David Hussey has to constantly fight for his place in the Australian national team, we give a free ride to the likes of Jadeja and Raina. To top it all we offer them millions of dollars to play in IPL. No wonder they have little incentive to fight for the country.

Last edited by C300 : 26th March 2012 at 16:46. Reason: Formatting
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