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Old 26th March 2012, 16:48   #6871
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SRT is a great player. He should let others have the opportunity to play for the country. With the kind of bowlers we have he cant make India win anyway.
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Old 26th March 2012, 17:23   #6872
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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
It's only now after 4 years that we have found a replacement for Ganguly - i.e. Kohli.
Surprised to hear that Kohli is Ganguly's replacement. If we compare first 3 career years of Tendulkar with that of Kohli, Kohli has done better.
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Originally Posted by Surprise View Post
Sachin Tendulkar says it would be "selfish" to retire now
Actually Tests & ODIs are being mixed up. Sachin must retire from ODIs but continue playing Tests (probably getting 50th ODI 100 is only thing pending for Tendulkar in ODIs). Retirement announcement from Dravid was surprising. Except for last Australian tour, Dravid has done well & better than Tendulkar is all the preceding tours in Tests.
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Old 26th March 2012, 17:56   #6873
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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Except for last Australian tour, Dravid has done well & better than Tendulkar is all the preceding tours in Tests.
This comment forced me onto Cricinfo Stats page. Here is the comparison between the two since 1st Jan 2009 (only tests):

India in New Zealand Test Series, 2008/09
SRT: 344 runs at 68.80 in 3 tests with highest score of 160
RD: 314 runs at 62.80 in 3 tests with highest score of 83


Sri Lanka in India Test Series, 2009/10
SRT: 197 runs at 65.66 in 3 tests with highest score of 100
RD: 433 runs at 108.25 in 3 tests with highest score of 177

India in Bangladesh Test Series, 2009/10
SRT: 264 runs at 132.00 in 2 tests with highest score of 143
RD: 139 runs at 69.50 in 2 tests with highest score of 139


India in Sri Lanka Test Series, 2010
SRT: 390 runs at 78.00 in 3 tests with highest score of 203
RD: 95 runs at 19.00 in 3 tests with highest score of 44


Border-Gavaskar Trophy (Australia in India), 2010/11
SRT: 403 runs at 134.33 in 2 tests with highest score of 214
RD: 112 runs at 37.33 in 2 tests with highest score of 77

New Zealand in India Test Series, 2010/11
SRT: 126 runs at 31.50 in 3 tests with highest score of 61
RD: 341 runs at 85.25 in 3 tests with highest score of 191

India in South Africa Test Series, 2010/11
SRT: 326 runs at 81.50 in 3 tests with highest score of 146
RD: 120 runs at 20.00 in 3 tests with highest score of 43


Pataudi Trophy (India in England), 2011
SRT: 273 runs at 34.12 in 4 tests with highest score of 91
RD: 461 runs at 76.83 in 4 tests with highest score of 146


West Indies in India Test Series, 2011/12
SRT: 218 runs at 43.60 in 3 tests with highest score of 94
RD: 319 runs at 63.80 in 3 tests with highest score of 119

Border-Gavaskar Trophy (India in Australia), 2011/12
SRT: 287 runs at 35.87 in 4 tests with highest score of 80
RD: 194 runs at 24.25 in 4 tests with highest score of 68



Overall from 2009 till date:
SRT: 3041 runs at 60.82 in 32 tests with highest score of 214 (10 Hundreds)
RD: 2779 runs at 52.43 in 33 tests with highest score of 191 (10 Hundreds)

Please tell me now how is SRTs performance any inferior to Rahul Dravid as you have so bluntly generalised??? I have marked Away tours in Bold. How has SRT performed poorer than Dravid on away tours based on above???

If at all, SRT has beaten his career average since 2009. Dravid has more or less scored at the same rate.

Note: RD here means Rahul Dravid. SRT stands for Sachin Tendulkar.
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Old 26th March 2012, 19:00   #6874
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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
I don't know how we the armchair and keyboard critics can 'FORCE' an excellent proven sportsman to retire. Did we identify him, coach him and get him to play for India ? Or did we stand by him in times of trouble ? I don't know how we the 'ardent (read also as stupid)' fans could determine what he should/should not do with his life. We should learn to respect our heroes and not humiliate them.



Very true. Also we continue to see the great player play and we should be happy for that. I am sure he will quit the game as soon as he knows that he is not needed anymore.



No one has carried the hopes and dreams of an entire nation like he has done. Everytime he goes out to bat, the whole nation expects and he has delivered more times than not, even now. But come the hard times and we are the first ones to dump him and call for his blood. He has learnt to shut out the world and do what he does best. This has helped him to flourish and he will continue to do so inspite of what his dear 'ardent' fans feel.
I personally cannot wait to see him bat again with his usual freedom. Watch out England, there is going to be some payback.
Go Sachin Go,
+ 100 Esteem Lover. Unfortunately lot of 'Pundits' out here prefer to Shoot from the hip

Quote:
Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
This comment forced me onto Cricinfo Stats page. Here is the comparison between the two since 1st Jan 2009 (only tests):

India in New Zealand Test Series, 2008/09
SRT: 344 runs at 68.80 in 3 tests with highest score of 160
RD: 314 runs at 62.80 in 3 tests with highest score of 83


Overall from 2009 till date:
SRT: 3041 runs at 60.82 in 32 tests with highest score of 214 (10 Hundreds)
RD: 2779 runs at 52.43 in 33 tests with highest score of 191 (10 Hundreds)

Please tell me now how is SRTs performance any inferior to Rahul Dravid as you have so bluntly generalised??? I have marked Away tours in Bold. How has SRT performed poorer than Dravid on away tours based on above???

If at all, SRT has beaten his career average since 2009. Dravid has more or less scored at the same rate.

Note: RD here means Rahul Dravid. SRT stands for Sachin Tendulkar.
Thanks for your effort Joslicx. I have great respect for RD and it is unfortunate that all Sachin baiters have hung on to his name to belittle the Little Master but numbers too don't lie

Last edited by lloydofcochin : 26th March 2012 at 19:04.
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Old 26th March 2012, 21:43   #6875
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Didn't Jayasuriya go on to play till the age of 42 ? So i dont know what the fuss is about Tendulkar since he is very much fit. I'm sure the break after the IPL will benefit him along with the others!
I was rather surprised that Dravid didn't go on playing well past the age of 40 as he was as fit as Tendulkar and apart from batting & standing in the slips he didn't have anything to do. But i guess retiring was his personal decision.
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Old 26th March 2012, 23:53   #6876
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Problem with stats is that they can be manipulated easily and they say the same what you want them to say .

if I was to decide, i would happily Ask him to hung his boot from ODI 's At least. He has played enough and he Must make way for youngsters . A person;s down fall starts from over confidence and his recent press statements speaks volume about over confidence. Common if you were such a world class player, what took you 365 + days to score a 100 and even when you scored, your team lost because you were busy in getting that 100 and that too against a second rung team like Bangladesh. Right now in my opinion , he is being selfish and by referring to Team India / Country first and all that jazz, just trying to make people emotional . He has a dream of winning the world cup , that;s over . Move on mate for your own sake.

Last edited by .sushilkumar : 26th March 2012 at 23:56.
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Old 27th March 2012, 00:16   #6877
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Originally Posted by PPS View Post
I was rather surprised that Dravid didn't go on playing well past the age of 40 as he was as fit as Tendulkar and apart from batting & standing in the slips he didn't have anything to do.
Check out the amount of catches Dravid has dropped in the slips in the last 2 years or so. On the average he drops 1 catch a match.
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Old 27th March 2012, 01:20   #6878
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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
Problem with stats is that they can be manipulated easily and they say the same what you want them to say .

Common if you were such a world class player, what took you 365 + days to score a 100 and even when you scored, your team lost because you were busy in getting that 100 and that too against a second rung team like Bangladesh.
Do you notice the irony in your first sentence and what you have written after that?

Are you questioning the greatness/class of a player with the statistic that he didn't score a century for 1 year - when he had scored 99 of them before that?
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Old 27th March 2012, 10:04   #6879
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There is no Irony there unfortunately. For some body who is playing for almost 23 + years now, wasn;t this expected ? what;s the Big deal specially so when you are playing in flat tracks of ASIA. even Raina can take the best Bowlers to cleaners in such flat tracks .

He might be a great player in others eyes but not mine. In a Team sport, greatness comes from a common cause , to win for the team. it;s open for discussion that how many time he has played for team. if i was to answer the above question, it;s simple " he always played for himself ,his records ". He was never a Team player in my books and he will never be in what ever games, he Plays in future.
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Old 27th March 2012, 10:49   #6880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
There is no Irony there unfortunately. For some body who is playing for almost 23 + years now, wasn;t this expected ? what;s the Big deal specially so when you are playing in flat tracks of ASIA. even Raina can take the best Bowlers to cleaners in such flat tracks .
You make it sound like he carries a piece of flat track with him to bat on wherever he goes. And if it was so easy to score hundreds on FLAT tracks, how come no one else from India/Pakistan/SL have come anywhere close? Do they play on different pitches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
He might be a great player in others eyes but not mine. In a Team sport, greatness comes from a common cause , to win for the team. it;s open for discussion that how many time he has played for team. if i was to answer the above question, it;s simple " he always played for himself ,his records ". He was never a Team player in my books and he will never be in what ever games, he Plays in future.
In the absence of any credible arguments to support your view, this sounds just like blind hate rather than a credible opinion. Of course, it is now the national passtime and very fashionable to criticize SRT. Please continue.
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Old 27th March 2012, 11:14   #6881
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If you read his latest interview, he seems to have lost it more than his critics. Even the players who were dropped had the passion for the game. For him playing well is always about getting a hundred.
Maybe, he should shut up and just play and let his game talk. His game is better than his talk.

Last edited by srishiva : 27th March 2012 at 11:16.
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Old 27th March 2012, 12:26   #6882
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Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
You make it sound like he carries a piece of flat track with him to bat on wherever he goes. And if it was so easy to score hundreds on FLAT tracks, how come no one else from India/Pakistan/SL have come anywhere close? Do they play on different pitches?
Simple Sir, none of them has got as many chances to Play as Mr SRT & those India/Pakistan/SL do have scored Hundreds in india at will. Mr Jayasuriya is case study in that . Problem with us is that We always think from heart and let Our heads wander in deserts .

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
In the absence of any credible arguments to support your view, this sounds just like blind hate rather than a credible opinion. Of course, it is now the national passtime and very fashionable to criticize SRT. Please continue.
Not At All Sir , They is no Blind hatred,In fact, I appreciate him for carrying the burden of billion expectation on his shoulders but some where he is loosing that respect in my books. He is Sounding like a typical politician who must stick to his chair by either hook or crook. I firmly believe in Rules laid Out by Mother Nature & One such rule is "All Good Things Must End". That;s how Genes & whole human race has evolved. Until he steps Down, the Likes of Rohit and Pujara will never get a chance to prove themselves.
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Old 27th March 2012, 12:39   #6883
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There is no denying the fact that SRT is a great, great cricketer. He is an idol not just for Indians, but sports lovers throughout the world. Having said that this brings another meaning to it. When he is idolized by so many and youngers look up to him, shouldnt he keep team's benefit first and make way for other younger, more agile, and definitely talented players such as Pujara or Rehane ? I remember Rehane making an impressive debut and like many others did'nt open as often as he should have; the reason, there is no place for him in the presence of greats like Tendulkar. The best way to silent his critics is by performing consistently, which I am afraid he has not been able to do at least in the One Day Format.

Unlike many, I firmly believe that he SHOULD retired from one day cricket and definitely can continue to play Test cricket as long as the bench strength is strong enough to fill the void left behind by likes of Dravid.

For the records, I am a BIG Tendulkar fan and cannot stand the fact that he has been critisized so badly probably for the first time in his carrier.
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Old 27th March 2012, 12:54   #6884
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Until he steps Down, the Likes of Rohit and Pujara will never get a chance to prove themselves.
You mean Rohit Sharma right? How many chances does he need. Heres his career record playing for India:

ODIs: 1961 runs in 80 games at 33.23 with strike rate of 78.85

So he has already played 80 games. Its not like he has not been given chances. Why hasnt he performed to a level to keep a Tendulkar out of the side??? 33.23 is hardly class, strike rate of 78.85 in current scenario (when you are not facing too many world class bowlers as there is a serious dearth of real good bowlers in world cricket these days) is not really acceptable. Rohit is only himself to blame if he hasnt grabbed so many opportunities with both hands.

Agree about Pujara though, he should get his chances now.

Unfortunately in sports, you have to force your way in the team. Youngsters should not take it for granted that they will get chances. Chances will come their way, they will have to make the best of them, they will have to cement their place. Yuvraj was able to do that. Why couldnt Rohit? He is an average player, totally overhyped. If he was good enough he would have his place in the side. Its not charity, playing for the team.

Finally if you think Sachin has only scored on flat tracks - hats off to your intelligence. Statistics seem to suggest otherwise, for he has been our best batsman on tough away tours (in SA and Aus). But then, stats dont matter for you, only perceptions do.

Last edited by joslicx : 27th March 2012 at 12:56.
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Old 27th March 2012, 13:23   #6885
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PS: I am neither Sachin's fan nor Dravid's fan. I just enjoy watching all forms of cricket.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
Here is the comparison between the two since 1st Jan 2009 (only tests):
Why Jan 2009? Sachin & Dravid are within career 500 runs (since they both started playing together) and hence some other date would throw a different picture.
But for the sake of statistics, from the time both started playing together, between 20 June 1996 to 27 March 2012:

All Tests:
Dravid 13288 (52.31)
Sachin 12841 (56.07)

At Home:
Dravid 5598 (51.35)
Sachin 5686 (54.67)

Away:
Dravid 7690 (53.03)
Sachin 7155 (57.24)

Wins:
Dravid 5131 (65.78)
Sachin 4720 (65.55)

Loss:
Dravid 2778 (29.87)
Sachin 3508 (39.86)
*when Dravid fails, India loses. Alternatively, when India loses, Sachin fights better

Draws:
Dravid 5379 (64.80)
Sachin 4613 (66.85)

In Ind, SL & Ban (spin oriented pitches):
Dravid 6820 (49.78)
Sachin 7458 (59.66)

Outside Ind, SL & Ban (pace oriented pitches):
Dravid 6468 (55.28)
Sachin 5383 (51.75)

So overall, in the period both played, I would still say Dravid is a better Test batsman than Sachin. That doesn't mean Sachin is inferior. It is just that he is short by 300~400 runs in about 13,000+ runs. Of course, Sachin's strength is his longevity which no sportsman, let alone in cricket can match.
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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Sachin must retire from ODIs but continue playing Tests (probably getting 50th ODI 100 is only thing pending for Tendulkar in ODIs).
The reason I suggested Sachin retire from ODIs is performance. Between world cup final last year to match before Sachin scored 100th century, while India played 30 ODIs, Sachin played just 9. In these 9 ODIs, he faced 206 balls & scored 167 runs at an average of 18.55, which is hardly his class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
No one has carried the hopes and dreams of an entire nation like he has done. Everytime he goes out to bat, the whole nation expects and he has delivered more times than not, even now.
When batsman is on field, he concentrates on bowler, fielder & runs. He isn't worried about the no. of Indian supporters in the stadium or the no. of Indians behind the TV watching the match. Personally, I don't believe in 'Sachin carrying the weight of expectation of the nation'. Its a jargon created by the Sachin's PR machinery to explain his failure and to magnify his success. If there is any pressure then it affects everyone in the team, not just one player.
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