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Old 29th November 2012, 09:01   #7201
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The third & final test between Australia-South Africa begins tomorrow. What a series it has been. Eventhough India is currently in a series against England, I enjoyed Aus-SA series a lot more.

I don't know if 'the grass is always greener on the other side' saying holds good, but these two teams have produced high-quality cricket. Michael Clarke is consistently scoring double centuries, an injured Kallis bats like a warrior. Test cricket at its best.

Here in India, our captain is asking for turning pitches:-) Hope India does well in the remaining matches.
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Old 29th November 2012, 09:17   #7202
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The third & final test between Australia-South Africa begins tomorrow. What a series it has been. Eventhough India is currently in a series against England, I enjoyed Aus-SA series a lot more.

I don't know if 'the grass is always greener on the other side' saying holds good, but these two teams have produced high-quality cricket. Michael Clarke is consistently scoring double centuries, an injured Kallis bats like a warrior. Test cricket at its best.

Here in India, our captain is asking for turning pitches:-) Hope India does well in the remaining matches.
You are right on money. I woke up at 6AM to catch up on that series than watching our minefield warriors go down in heap

What a debut for Du Plessis! Amazingly serene with so much pressure to save a test match. Commendable.


Ponting makes a graceful exit if this is true.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australi...ry/594213.html
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Old 29th November 2012, 11:51   #7203
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Ponting makes a graceful exit if this is true.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australi...ry/594213.html
Sad News. It cant be wrong as those words were said by him and not just another may be article.
I have always loved him as much as I hated him. Great man. Huge loss for the game.
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Old 29th November 2012, 15:37   #7204
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Sad News. It cant be wrong as those words were said by him and not just another may be article.
I have always loved him as much as I hated him. Great man. Huge loss for the game.
The best right handed batsman during my lifetime (or for the last 20 years at least).

Alongwith Lara (the best left handed batsman during my lifetime), Punter defined and calibrated the peaks of batting prowess. Not many would ever touch those heights, let alone sustain there!

A huge loss to cricket (but thats because he's given so much to the game).
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Old 29th November 2012, 16:51   #7205
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The best right handed batsman during my lifetime (or for the last 20 years at least).
Debatable. Considering he never had to face the Australian bowling attack and was not quite the same player at least in subcontinental (ok, Indian) conditions. Was a notch down against quality swing/ fast bowling as well, though he was definitely a fighter.

But yes, a loss to cricket especially with the aggressive nature that he played his cricket and also the last of the all conquering Australian team.

So that leaves Kallis with the opportunity to move to no.2 on the all time run scorer list. he also has 280 test wickets and 270 ODI wickets! maybe 10000 ODI runs too, though I need to check that.

In other news, please leave Sachin alone, says 'Jumbo' Kumble
http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-b...entId=12927015
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Old 29th November 2012, 17:16   #7206
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Debatable. Considering he never had to face the Australian bowling attack and was not quite the same player at least in subcontinental (ok, Indian) conditions. Was a notch down against quality swing/ fast bowling as well, though he was definitely a fighter.

But yes, a loss to cricket especially with the aggressive nature that he played his cricket and also the last of the all conquering Australian team.

So that leaves Kallis with the opportunity to move to no.2 on the all time run scorer list. he also has 280 test wickets and 270 ODI wickets! maybe 10000 ODI runs too, though I need to check that.
Of course it's debatable for we are talking about the best but for me those two are the best pure batsman. They had the best technique, the best temperament, the best shots, and quite simply were class personified. Lara especially was poetry in motion when in mood.

On the other hand I feel Sachin and kallis are run aggregators rather than pure batsmen. Somehow to me they don't belong to the same league as Lara and Ponting.

And regarding facing quality opposition, I think Ponting had his fair share. He ruled the time when we had the best bowlers active the likes of wasim, waqar, murali, kumble, Donald, vettori, Walsh, cairns, vaas, even some English bowlers not a bad bunch. How incredibly lucky today's batsmen are they don't have to face anybody like these!
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Old 29th November 2012, 19:54   #7207
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Debatable. Considering he never had to face the Australian bowling attack and was not quite the same player at least in subcontinental (ok, Indian) conditions. Was a notch down against quality swing/ fast bowling as well, though he was definitely a fighter.
Agree with you seldrive. You can never put Ponting ahead of Sachin. Sachin has been the more complete Batsman of this era.

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Of course it's debatable for we are talking about the best but for me those two are the best pure batsman. They had the best technique, the best temperament, the best shots, and quite simply were class personified. Lara especially was poetry in motion when in mood.

On the other hand I feel Sachin and kallis are run aggregators rather than pure batsmen. Somehow to me they don't belong to the same league as Lara and Ponting.

And regarding facing quality opposition, I think Ponting had his fair share. He ruled the time when we had the best bowlers active the likes of wasim, waqar, murali, kumble, Donald, vettori, Walsh, cairns, vaas, even some English bowlers not a bad bunch. How incredibly lucky today's batsmen are they don't have to face anybody like these!
I admire Ponting & Lara they but I feel that they still fall short of Sachin. Though extremely stylish in strokeplay with his extravagant backlift Lara never flourished against high quality pace. He lorded over mostly medium pacers. And he was never a team man and that was on display when his team mates cold shouldered him when he announced his retirement.

Ponting had a major weakness against spin even though he scored a lot in Sri Lanka. I liked his aggressive batting but he always had the insurance of a strong batting line up or an equally competent or if better bowling firepower to help the Aussies out. And a strong Australian team definitely enabled him to take the bull by the horns.

If you look at Sachin's batting he has it all. And that's why the experts rate him as a more complete all round batsman.
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Old 29th November 2012, 20:50   #7208
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If you look at Sachin's batting he has it all. And that's why the experts rate him as a more complete all round batsman.
And yet for all that completeness he has failed far more than his fair share at the crunchiest of times! WC finals (both of them), crucial test innings (remember him failing to see home in that Chennai test against pakis!), Sachin hasnt really left his stamp on the test arena for me. He can very justifiably be accused of being a selfish batsman (although that can be a plus in Cricket!)

Actually for all those 30000 runs that he has scored, you could count on one hand the real crunch innings! That is why I will always maintain him as a run aggregator (and a peerless one at that) but a supreme batter he is not! Hasnt played that many memorable innings to compare against the best (something you cannot say about Ponting or Lara).
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Old 29th November 2012, 21:15   #7209
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Ok I'll chime in since this is what we have been discussing over coffee sessions and lunch...
  • No one doubts the ability and technical expertise of Sachin. He plays perfect text book cricket.
  • However with that gift, like many of you have written here, there are not many memorable moments to remember given his record career.
  • The most impactful batsmen (90s onwards) have been Lara, Kallis, Ponting, Hayden, Laxman, Dravid and even Sehwag for their respective countries in various formats of the game.

Please note these are observations of many folks, some of them from strangers (outside our team) who speak to make a point.

Personally, I would love to watch Lara and Mark Waugh over all the names mentioned and discussed.
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Old 29th November 2012, 22:16   #7210
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Ok I'll chime in since this is what we have been discussing over coffee sessions and lunch...
  • No one doubts the ability and technical expertise of Sachin. He plays perfect text book cricket.
  • However with that gift, like many of you have written here, there are not many memorable moments to remember given his record career.
  • The most impactful batsmen (90s onwards) have been Lara, Kallis, Ponting, Hayden, Laxman, Dravid and even Sehwag for their respective countries in various formats of the game.
Please note these are observations of many folks, some of them from strangers (outside our team) who speak to make a point.

Personally, I would love to watch Lara and Mark Waugh over all the names mentioned and discussed.
Agree with the impact Batsmen but they had their fair share of failures. And if you look at the consistency except Kallis Sachin is better than them all.

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Actually for all those 30000 runs that he has scored, you could count on one hand the real crunch innings! That is why I will always maintain him as a run aggregator (and a peerless one at that) but a supreme batter he is not! Hasnt played that many memorable innings to compare against the best (something you cannot say about Ponting or Lara).
Come on buddy. This is the usual rant that everyone has about Sachin. But let us not forget that after all Cricket is a team game don't forget the runs he scored in 2003 & 2011 WC's to get us in to the finals. If he had not fired in the group stages & semis we would not have entered the finals. And the 2003 finals were lost when our bowlers had conceded 359 runs

And then people talk about scoring in the 4th innings but conveniently forget about the scores he has made in the 1st, 2nd & 3rd innings.

Lara has always played for himself most of the time and the exceptions were very few the 153 being one of them.

Edit - I too loved watching Mark Waugh but my all time favorite is still the Wristmaster from Hyderabad - Azhar.

Last edited by lloydofcochin : 29th November 2012 at 22:18.
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Old 29th November 2012, 22:21   #7211
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And then people talk about scoring in the 4th innings but conveniently forget about the scores he has made in the 1st, 2nd & 3rd innings.
He bats for both sides, eh?

Last edited by amitoj : 29th November 2012 at 22:22.
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Old 29th November 2012, 22:31   #7212
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He bats for both sides, eh?
Sarcasm aside sometimes the opposing Captain would have wished for the same
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Old 29th November 2012, 23:14   #7213
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Sarcasm aside sometimes the opposing Captain would have wished for the same
LOL. Optimism aside, sometimes our own captain would have wished for the exact opposite.
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Old 29th November 2012, 23:29   #7214
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LOL. Optimism aside, sometimes our own captain would have wished for the exact opposite.
As if he is scoring runs in tons

Mark my words. Don't write him off. Sachin will be back in form shortly.

A very pragmatic article - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-...ry/594391.html

Last edited by lloydofcochin : 29th November 2012 at 23:32.
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Old 29th November 2012, 23:39   #7215
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Mark my words. Don't write him off. Sachin will be back in form shortly.
Sure. We have waited for nearly 2 years now.

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Yeah all Sachin fans would think so

Here is one from the other side:
http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/LAgv...ng-willow.html

And i can't understand all the drama he created by asking selectors to take a call on his future. He knows very well selectors are spineless to leave him out unless he is down with injury. And as a person who has played international cricket for his country for 23 years, he is the best judge whether his inclusion in the team is doing any good to the team or not. And he can see that it is not, that is why he threw the ball in the selectors' court.

Speaking of articles, if you want a balanced opinion, you have to look at articles from people who are not afraid of writing what they think, people who are "paid to HAVE an opinion" as was recently told to Mr Ravi Shastri. Take a look at this article from Australia
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spor...-1226525243864

Quote:
Tendulkar turns 40 in April, Ponting 38 in a month. Were cricketers' ages to be gauged, theirs would appear in the red zone. Their relative travails barely compare. Tendulkar has gone 28 Test innings without a hundred; Ponting 10.
Quote:
When batsmen begin getting out in the act of playing defensively, as Tendulkar and Ponting did in Mumbai and Adelaide respectively, something is amiss. Defence is meant to banish risk, not induce it.
Quote:
In India, Tendulkar is off limits, an embodiment of national will and aspiration. No sooner had India lost in Mumbai two days ago with Tendulkar among the failures than India's Minister of State Rajeev Shukla, the coming man at the Board of Control for Cricket in India, leapt pre-emptively to his defence. "He will hang up his boots when he thinks it's time for him to go," Shukla stated.

"He does not need any advice on this." So much for selectors, eh? But it is fair to say that no Indian politician has ever lost a vote by standing shoulder-to-shoulder with The Little Master.

That instructive weathervane of the breezes at the BCCI, Sunil Gavaskar, went so far as to deem it an "Indian thing", a contrast to the "ruthless" Australian system "because our cricketing culture is different". Gavaskar said proudly: "We have a situation where we respect our senior cricketers and do not want to push them out. We want to give them a graceful exit."
Before you argue that its from Australia so obviously they will criticise Tendulkar, read the complete article. It takes apart Ponting too.

And here is the telling blow from the article:
Quote:
The selectors in each country must transcend these debates, and evaluate the cricket issues alone. India's probably have little chance; indeed, the BCCI ousted the last selector who showed an independent mind, Mohinder Amarnath, just two months ago.

Last edited by amitoj : 30th November 2012 at 00:06.
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