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Old 22nd August 2014, 13:53   #8071
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Like I said earlier the coach should only be the person who has a good amount of International playing experience. A bookish individual can't understand the hardships and psychological battles one has to do with all fame, money and power which comes so easily to players these days.

Don't know why we have a fetish for foreign coaches. We have tons of ex senior players and recently retired ones. They would be happy to do the job but BCCI have other agendas. Fletcher should have been sacked long back and he is still prevailing. Pathetic politics is destroying our core cricket.

Blaming Dhoni for everything is easy but what can he do if the coaching staff is not doing their job well. He needs support which I can't see happening from the current staff.

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Old 22nd August 2014, 16:55   #8072
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And Kohli is going great guns in the warm up limited overs match .......
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Old 22nd August 2014, 17:33   #8073
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And Kohli is going great guns in the warm up limited overs match .......
Just saw the score. Why didn't Raina batted higher? Why is that good for nothing Jadeja batting higher than him when it's Raina who needs match practice in these conditions. Stupid strategy again.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 18:37   #8074
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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
All good points and I agree with most, except the above. I think India should get rid of the coach position altogether. It's pretty obvious that coach has limited or no power over the team anyway (irrespective of who holds the post).

The time isn't far away when no self-respecting coach will want anything to do with the Indian team.
I would like to revisit this.

Unfortunately coaches and support staff are the easiest of the lot to be criticized. It's almost like a no win scenario for them. And players need to take responsibility - no matter how much the support staff help them, they can't bat, bowl or field for them. And from what we have heard, the support staff is actually good (going by Rahul Dravid's word - and for me he is 'the' epitome of honesty)

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Like I said earlier the coach should only be the person who has a good amount of International playing experience.
Greg Lehman the current Aussie coach hardly played Tests - do not think it is a problem. It may be a great thing to have - but you would not simply have the guy who has played more cricket.

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Don't know why we have a fetish for foreign coaches. We have tons of ex senior players and recently retired ones.They would be happy to do the job but BCCI have other agendas. Fletcher should have been sacked long back and he is still prevailing. Pathetic politics is destroying our core cricket.
Foreign coaches are generally unbiased. Indians are Yes Men, they say yes to everyone. They are also intimidated by big names.

And I do not see any big Indian name queuing up for the job. Amarnath was but all he did was sing praises of MSD


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Blaming Dhoni for everything is easy but what can he do if the coaching staff is not doing their job well. He needs support which I can't see happening from the current staff.
How do we know coaching staff is not doing well? Are they supposed to bat, bowl and field for our players? Again, Rahul's word for it - and he opines - the support staff is great.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 19:32   #8075
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A great player won't necessarily make a good leader/captain/coach, the skill-sets required are vastly different. Some players are good leaders too, but that's not always a given like a lot of people seem to presume.

Also, why do you think none of the Indian greats of yesteryear want the job? Most of them know they'll have no real control of anything, and will be the first (probably the only) ones out the door when things go wrong, so they steer clear or take up seats on some ridiculous committee with an unknown agenda or better yet, become a commentator even if you can't string 2 sentences together properly.
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Old 23rd August 2014, 01:04   #8076
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Originally Posted by pratyush6 View Post
I would like to revisit this.

Unfortunately coaches and support staff are the easiest of the lot to be criticized. It's almost like a no win scenario for them. And players need to take responsibility - no matter how much the support staff help them, they can't bat, bowl or field for them. And from what we have heard, the support staff is actually good (going by Rahul Dravid's word - and for me he is 'the' epitome of honesty)
If the support staff was good there would have been improvements in teams batting, fielding and bowling. There has been none. None of these players lack talent or forgotten how to perform overnight. Something is wrong and its the job of support staff to figure it out and correct it. Results speak for themselves and Dravid doesn't live with this team 24/7 to know whats really going on.

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Greg Lehman the current Aussie coach hardly played Tests - do not think it is a problem. It may be a great thing to have - but you would not simply have the guy who has played more cricket.
Buddy you are sadly mistaken. It's Darren Lehmann not Greg. This is his overall domestic and international record and its good enough to be a coach. - http://www.espncricinfo.com/India/co...ayer/6285.html
He could have done more but he debuted very late in Australian team. He was also the highest run getter for Australia in first class cricket when he debuted.

And here is our awesome coach Mr. Fletchers record - http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/conte...yer/55424.html

Yes, he has never played a SINGLE test match and he is coaching a test team.

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Foreign coaches are generally unbiased. Indians are Yes Men, they say yes to everyone. They are also intimidated by big names.

And I do not see any big Indian name queuing up for the job. Amarnath was but all he did was sing praises of MSD
If foreign coaches are unbiased then they may not be that much bothered as the humiliation of losing isn't as personal to them as it will be to an Indian coach. What big names? If Sachin, Ganguly, Dravid or say shastri or gavaskar is a coach do you think they will be intimidated by anyone? Don't think so. I don't mind foreign coaches. By all means select them for the job. But selection should be on merit and not just reputation. If it doesn't work out changes should be made asap.

And amarnath wasn't in favor of Dhoni. He was the only selector who after debacle of 2011 said Dhoni should be removed from captaincy. Instead Srinivasan removed him as a selector.

Last edited by harry10 : 23rd August 2014 at 01:07.
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Old 23rd August 2014, 18:45   #8077
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If the support staff was good there would have been improvements in teams batting, fielding and bowling. There has been none.
Results speak for themselves and Dravid doesn't live with this team 24/7 to know whats really going on.
So if you were pathetic in Vector Algebra and I gave you a great teacher -and if you fail, you sack the teacher right?

You did not answer - how in the world would you judge the support staff?

And as far as Dravid goes - he has played with this team. And he IS THE authority as far as all that is concerned. We sitting in our living rooms mouthing off these guys is rather useless and may not even be correct. And it is definitely NOT correct when out against Dravid's word.

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Buddy you are sadly mistaken. It's Darren Lehmann not Greg. Yes, he has never played a SINGLE test match and he is coaching a test team.
Geeeez, I knew if did not sound correct - Greg Lehman

Fletcher turned around the English team - what about that? And he is consistently rated very high for his knowledge and skill.


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If foreign coaches are unbiased then they may not be that much bothered as the humiliation of losing isn't as personal to them as it will be to an Indian coach. What big names? If Sachin, Ganguly, Dravid or say shastri or gavaskar is a coach do you think they will be intimidated by anyone? Don't think so. I don't mind foreign coaches.
Bothered about humiliation? Buddy this is not charity - this is professional sports. They will be sacked and might not even find a job after that.

And you missed the point, no one among Sachin, Saurav, Rahul or Shastri are interested in being India's coach right now. If they were, they would be given the job, then and there. They may be interested in a short stint but that's it.

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And amarnath wasn't in favor of Dhoni. He was the only selector who after debacle of 2011 said Dhoni should be removed from captaincy.
That was in 2011, after the appointment of Fletcher - when MSD apparently told that he did not want Amarnath as the coach. Mind you he put his name in the ring.
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Old 23rd August 2014, 22:08   #8078
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Originally Posted by pratyush6 View Post
So if you were pathetic in Vector Algebra and I gave you a great teacher -and if you fail, you sack the teacher right?

Fletcher turned around the English team - what about that? And he is consistently rated very high for his knowledge and skill.

Are you saying the entire Indian cricket team are pathetic at Vector Algebra and so, no accountability applies for the wonderful Algebra teacher - even if all of them have been failing miserably for the last few years ?

Every professional sport has the concept of accountability - You may be a God but if you cant deliver wins - after a point of time, who cares who you are !

I'd care a damn about how Fletcher is rated for his knowledge. Fact is - he hasnt delivered AT ALL. Look at the last England series, the Australia series and this English series - all humiliating defeats. What really has been Fletcher's positive contribution over the years - I fail to understand.

Last edited by RoadTiger : 23rd August 2014 at 22:11.
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Old 25th August 2014, 11:18   #8079
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I think according to BCCI rules, only wives are allowed to travel with players for test series. But Kohli was allowed to take Anushka Sharma along, since BCCI felt 'Virat Kohli and Anushka were planning to get married'. Now, Anushka clarifies 'No wedding with Virat'. Where does BCCI stand now?
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And Kohli is going great guns in the warm up limited overs match .......
No obligation now
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In hindsight, what do you guys think could have Dhoni done differently to win this series ? Not to invest in the future etc, but win this particular series ? Squad selection, team selection etc etc
Hindsight isn't necessary in this case. To give Indian chance or drawing or winning against England in 2014, Dhoni must have quit in 2012 after 8-0 loss.
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As Dhoni pointed out, India lost the previous series 4-0 with greats in the side. This is a younger side
Well Dhoni meant, I lost with experienced folks in the side. Now with in experienced ones, you gotto be kidding about winning ...

Last edited by msdivy : 25th August 2014 at 11:25.
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Old 25th August 2014, 11:59   #8080
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Hindsight isn't necessary in this case. To give Indian chance or drawing or winning against England in 2014, Dhoni must have quit in 2012 after 8-0 loss....
Hand on heart, was this how you felt when we were 1-0 up after Lords ?

My belief is that with the form that our batsmen were in, I do not think Dhoni could have done a lot to win on this tour.

Anyways,

ODI series scoreline prediction folks ?
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Old 25th August 2014, 13:29   #8081
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ODI series scoreline prediction folks ?
I say we win the ODI series hands down (if not a white wash). Our team consists of players who are predominantly limited over's experts.

Should we even lose the ODI series, then I would definitely put the blame on the support staff i.e. the coaches. Till then I stick to the reasoning that "we lack genuine test batsmen who can bat in overseas conditions"
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Old 25th August 2014, 13:43   #8082
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Will reserve my comment till today's match ends. It's imperative to see what team combination we play today.
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Old 25th August 2014, 14:45   #8083
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Not fair Harry and Vinit.

Score predictions pls

I foresee a 1-3 loss
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Old 25th August 2014, 14:48   #8084
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2-2, 1 washed out

Cheers,
Vikram
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Old 25th August 2014, 15:03   #8085
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Not fair Harry and Vinit.

Score predictions pls

I foresee a 1-3 loss
Well, today will be a washout. Sad cos I was home today.
OK, I will predict match by match rather than whole series prediction.
Though I have a feeling India will win the series.
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