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Old 31st December 2014, 21:52   #8236
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Originally Posted by hothatchaway View Post
- He does not deserve a place in the test side and his recent track record is ample proof. WRT to a replacement, one will know only when fresh blood is tested and yes, why only Dhoni, even the Pujaras and the Rohit Sharmas and Shamis should be put on the line if they dont deliver. We always seek refuge in this hypothesis that 'there is no replacement', pray tell me how will you discover new talent if you dont throw them in the deep end?
His recent record? I am pretty sure you mean his performances abroad, I hope you know he was among the better batsmen in England, while everyone else barring Vijay looked as if they were fish out of water. Here he played 2 Tests - and dare I say, had he played the first one, we would have won it. Had he not played the 3rd, we would have lost it - replace any Indian keeper and you have the same result.

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- Refusing to drop players even after extended bad runs - Raina, Ashwin, Jadeja etc, one can also insinuate that CSK players had extended runs in the national side and was granted immunity from poor performances.
Raina was dropped from Tests, ODI's both - I still do not agree with him being dropped from ODIs. Ashwin & Jadeja - honestly, do you really believe what you are saying?

One more fellow got an extended run in the team in Australia last time when he looked hopeless - he is the new Test skipper now.

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This is where our serf mentality comes in, no matter what he or anybody else has done, nobody is bigger than the game. Why only a hundred, he could go on to play 150 tests,
Nobody is bigger than the game yes, but the game is poorer without champion players. MSD is and will remain a champion player. Next, why a 100 Test - because that is considered the holy grail of playing Tests - every great player wanted to do that, that's why.
Next point - nobody could have stopped him from that; he felt it was right for him to go, he did it - he wasn't asked or cajoled to do so.

He did not want a farewell Test, unlike most our greats - and we criticize him for that too? I mean how pathetic can Indian (fair weathered) fans get.

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Let me introduce a concept here, the right to scrutinize and judge the performance of public figures. Evaluating performance post retirement is not akin to posthumous character assassination.
The concept is always there, but now is not the time for it. This is the time you say Thanks for all the fun you gave us. It's called Farewell - I hope you understand it.
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Old 2nd January 2015, 14:08   #8237
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I agree with the timing in the larger context, but it was one test match too early IMO. Should've done it after the Sydney test, and avoided all these question marks.
I actually think the other way around. The Syndey Test is a dead rubber and it will give more freedom to Kohli who is now in as the full-time captain.
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Old 2nd January 2015, 14:55   #8238
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It's only one test. What can Kohli do differently here ? And it's an eternity till we play the next test series so don't think the experience will matter that much.

This is the last of the overseas test series that we've played in the last couple of years, and ideally Kohli would have wanted to start afresh.
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Old 2nd January 2015, 15:19   #8239
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-
- Refusing to drop players even after extended bad runs - Raina, Ashwin, Jadeja etc, one can also insinuate that CSK players had extended runs in the national side and was granted immunity from poor performances. Its only under Dhoni
If we go with your theory, why do we see dhawan, ishant, shami in the team? We all will have reasons like the selectors. But its a tough job and im really happy with the present selectors who are at least trying. If not, we would have seen struggling bhajji, zaheer and sehwag in this tour. Please note that i love zaheer from his first match but when you see these big players struggle, your love for them makes you feel that its better for them to quit than fighting like a wounded tiger.

I am from chennai but a fan of Rajasthan royals. Reason, they do what the IPL meant for, giving chances for youngsters and allowing them to play with big match winners. I would not complain about other teams either, because it is a business for them and they are trying to win by sticking to the rules.

But when it comes to national team, we dont even think which IPL team they play for. All we care is whether we win or try to win. I am a fan of raina but i dont want to see him in tests. But when he was selected i didnt pray for rohit to fail. Same with kohli, we hated him in IPL for his behavior and now he is around 120+ runs from breaking my all time hero draivd's record for highest number of runs in an away series. But who cares, we want kohli to continue his form and win the last test match. Same with Ashwin, I too felt he should be replaced but when they did it was worse than what we expect. We can say the replacement need longer run but honestly even you or me wouldnt do that in an abroad tour. We try to play safe.

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His recent record? I am pretty sure you mean his performances abroad, I hope you know he was among the better batsmen in England, while everyone else barring Vijay looked as if they were fish out of water. Here he played 2 Tests - and dare I say, had he played the first one, we would have won it. Had he not played the 3rd, we would have lost it - replace any Indian keeper and you have the same result.
Exactly, I liked saha energy and want to see him more in test matches but one shot too many cost his wicket. I was confident that he and kohli will cross the line but after a six and four, any player is expected to take a single but whoever has played cricket would agree that we get the same temptations in even a 16 overs tennis ball cricket. Its just a few seconds which determines the outcome and saha who is already 30 gave away at the right moment.
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Old 2nd January 2015, 21:35   #8240
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His recent record? I am pretty sure you mean his performances abroad, I hope you know he was among the better batsmen in England, while everyone else barring Vijay looked as if they were fish out of water. Here he played 2 Tests - and dare I say, had he played the first one, we would have won it. Had he not played the 3rd, we would have lost it - replace any Indian keeper and you have the same result.
Hmm, decent point which had me look up cricinfo, 349 runs in 10 innings (ave of 34.9) is hardly pitch scorching stuff, but considering the fact that everyone else had a dismal series, it was a decent show. Then again, bhuvaneswar Kumar had an average of 27, hardly someone with any batting prowess. These figures are asymptomatic of India's dismal showing overseas and not of any outstanding showing by Dhoni. A superstar like MSD will be held upto a higher standard of performance, whether diehard fans like it or not; remember Kohli's troubles off the field when he failed in England?

Whether another keeper would have been better or worse is mere speculation. MSD's glovework has also been pretty average and that to me is more important than also being a bit and pieces bat (dont mean MSD here, he was a better bat) If everything was hunky dory, why the sudden departure then? At least the man himself felt he was not measuring up (and not that it wasnt clearly evident in this series) whether or not that sat well with some of his fans

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Ashwin & Jadeja - honestly, do you really believe what you are saying?
Didnt understand what exactly is meant here, Ashwin and Jadeja are gods answer to India's spin bowling woes? Ever heard of the names M/S Prasanna, Venkatraghavan and Bedi? Ashwin's bat does more talking than his spinning fingers and while Jadeja is a competent limited overs package, to expect him to be a test class bowler is to expect David Dhawan to direct Woody Allen movies


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One more fellow got an extended run in the team in Australia last time when he looked hopeless - he is the new Test skipper now.
My turn to laugh now , one of the only two class batsmen in the team now with Rahane being the other (No offence Murali Vijay, your tenacity more than makes up everything else, Pujara is still very clearly a WIP) As an aside, Kohli may still struggle in English conditions as he tends to play away from the body, in the same vein there is no doubt that he is the biggest big match player that we have now



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Nobody is bigger than the game yes, but the game is poorer without champion players. MSD is and will remain a champion player. Next, why a 100 Test - because that is considered the holy grail of playing Tests - every great player wanted to do that, that's why.
Next point - nobody could have stopped him from that; he felt it was right for him to go, he did it - he wasn't asked or cajoled to do so.
Serf mentality again, 100 tests is nobody's right - GR Visvanath, Mohinder Amarnath, Ravi Shastri et al (the disgraced Azhar had to halt at 99 matches) played less than 100 matches. That he was not asked to leave the test arena is asymptomatic of what is wrong with the current dispensation, please read the following article http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/t...w/45699347.cms

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He did not want a farewell Test, unlike most our greats - and we criticize him for that too? I mean how pathetic can Indian (fair weathered) fans get.
The man is still around, for the formats which clearly are more popular to the current cricketing fraternity in the country namely ODI/T20. Am sure there will be a 'farewell' ODI or some such event. We are really big on standing on ceremonies, arent we?!



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The concept is always there, but now is not the time for it. This is the time you say Thanks for all the fun you gave us. It's called Farewell - I hope you understand it.
Do read the point above, ample opportunities for greater exploits which am sure he is capable of, so its not adios altogether. Am happy he is finally rid of the format which he clearly preferred less than the modern formats. He is certainly a champion, but lets not elevate human being to divine status, lest they develop feet of clay
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Old 3rd January 2015, 02:35   #8241
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In other news, the blogger greatbong published this gem (that I agree with):
http://greatbong.net/2015/01/02/on-dhoni/

Quote:
It’s strange, this phenomenon. Hours and hours of watching my favorite sportsmen on the telly, and I begin to believe that I know them personally. That’s why I tuned in when Sachin was close to a century and become all emotional when Ganguly walked out that last time. Even though it is extremely silly, I become personally invested in the individual successes of these strangers, that goes above and beyond my team winning, just like I would do for my friends.
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Last edited by Eddy : 4th January 2015 at 16:23.
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Old 3rd January 2015, 16:38   #8242
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Didnt understand what exactly is meant here, Ashwin and Jadeja are gods answer to India's spin bowling woes? Ever heard of the names M/S Prasanna, Venkatraghavan and Bedi?
So pompous of you to think I have not even heard of them, but let me get to the point - There are no Prasanna, Venky or Bedi anymore in the Indian circuit - if they were they would have been playing long ago.

Ashwin started off well but has lost a lot of steam off late - that's why I agreed with Karn Sharma being tried - but has he for a single moment been kept in the team because he was a CSK guy?

As for Raina - how you seriously expect me to believe that he does not deserve a place in the ODIs? He plays in all my ODI side - period. A lot of people forget the kind of runs Raina & MSD make - ugly runs - they score when most have failed. Do you want me to get the numbers out? That is a no brainer for me. I want him to succeed in Tests - he is probably one guy who plays first for the team and then for anything else.

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My turn to laugh now , one of the only two class batsmen in the team now with Rahane being the other
Really laugh on what? That was not a joke - When he first played in Australia - he looked woeful - remember he was a ODI guy before this - MSD still persisted with him.

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The man is still around, for the formats which clearly are more popular to the current cricketing fraternity in the country namely ODI/T20. Am sure there will be a 'farewell' ODI or some such event. We are really big on standing on ceremonies, arent we?!
He is around, but you seem to have clearly missed the fact that such ceremonies are not high on MSD's agenda - In fact, I would not bet against him retiring after the World Cup.
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Old 3rd January 2015, 20:56   #8243
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As per newspaper reports, Ravindra Jadeja is racing against time to be fit for the World Cup! Apart from being the 5th bowler he's an outstanding fielder & it will be a big blow if he isn't fit.
His injury could just open the door for Yuvraj Singh, if not selectors could just opt for Stuart Binny.
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Old 4th January 2015, 16:13   #8244
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His injury could just open the door for Yuvraj Singh, if not selectors could just opt for Stuart Binny.
Can a player who was not in the provisional 30 be in the 15? I don't know, I think it's against ICC rules.

I think Binny will be there even if Jadeja is fit, the selectors and Dhoni have taken a liking towards him.
Most likely squad for WC- Dhawan, Rohit, Rahane, Kohli, Raina, Rayudu, Dhoni, Binny, Jadeja, Ashwin, Patel, Ishant, Bhuvi, Yadav, Shami
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Old 4th January 2015, 16:27   #8245
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In other news, the blogger greatbong published this gem (that I agree with):
http://greatbong.net/2015/01/02/on-dhoni/
It's a fantastic article, thanks for sharing. I agree with the sentiment of the writer.

Even the Harsha Bhogale article that he quotes is a good read
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Old 6th January 2015, 15:15   #8246
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India World Cup squad: MSD, Dhawan, Rohit, Rahane,Raina, Kohli, Rayudu, Jadeja, Ashwin, Akshar, Bhuvneshwar, Ishant, Shami, Binny, Umesh.


No major surprises there! Hopefully all of them are fully fit by the time the World Cup starts. No place for Varun Aaron in the team. Ishant hasn't been in the ODI squad in the recent past either.
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Old 7th January 2015, 11:28   #8247
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India World Cup squad: MSD, Dhawan, Rohit, Rahane,Raina, Kohli, Rayudu, Jadeja, Ashwin, Akshar, Bhuvneshwar, Ishant, Shami, Binny, Umesh.


No major surprises there! Hopefully all of them are fully fit by the time the World Cup starts. No place for Varun Aaron in the team. Ishant hasn't been in the ODI squad in the recent past either.
No major surprises?

I am aghast with this team. They have a rat's a** chance of making ahead of any playoffs. In fact I am angry, this reeks of arrogance.

Binny - what has he done to be in the World Cup squad? Dhawan? Raydu?
Then we have 3 spinners - Jadeja, Aksar & Ashwin. Shami - seriously? The guy cannot bowl 6 balls at the same spot.

I expected Vijay to be in comfortably, and Yuvi with the kind of form he has shown off late. Needed atleast 1 more fast bowler - Aaron.

On the 4th Test Vs. Australia:
Now our new skipper in all his senses has decided to drop Pujara - yes, he hasn't scored as he was expected to, but playing Rohit Sharma on a road ahead of a season filled with home matches is too much of a co-incidence.

And we have also seen, he does not have any imagination whatsoever with fielding positions. Ravi Shastri may say whatever he may want to - this team is not going anywhere, if we keep picking T20 players in Tests.
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Old 7th January 2015, 12:44   #8248
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Shami - seriously? The guy cannot bowl 6 balls at the same spot.
I hope he bowls in the right spot! He has been the biggest disappointment in all our overseas tours in the past.
Bhuvneshwar is currently bowling at 120km/hr after recovering from an injury.

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I expected Vijay to be in comfortably, and Yuvi with the kind of form he has shown off late. Needed atleast 1 more fast bowler - Aaron.
Vijay had no chance since there are already 3 openers & Yuvraj hasn't been in the scheme of things in the past 1yr so i'm not surprised he's missed out. Aaron again is wayward & known to leak runs more than others.
All the players selected have been groomed in the past 1 yr or so.
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Old 7th January 2015, 12:47   #8249
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No major surprises?
I think they have stuck to the combination that has been playing ODIs recently. Yuvi was not in the 30 man list, why do you expect him to suddenly feature in this 15 man final squad?

As much as I love Vijay's batting, test and ODIs are a different ball game.
I saw him in T20s for CSK and while he goes big if he gets going, the chances of it happening are very rare.

It is good planning or sheer luck that we have an ODI series in Australia just before the worldcup. It will hopefully help us prepare for the defence of the cup better than the other nations. Hope we don't get any injury scares as well.

Just out of curiosity, what would your ODI team for WC be, if given a chance to select the squad?

Last edited by SchumiFan : 7th January 2015 at 12:59.
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Old 7th January 2015, 14:00   #8250
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No major surprises?
From the below posts, it seems this squad was expected
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Most likely squad for WC- Dhawan, Rohit, Rahane, Kohli, Raina, Rayudu, Dhoni, Binny, Jadeja, Ashwin, Patel, Ishant, Bhuvi, Yadav, Shami
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India World Cup squad: MSD, Dhawan, Rohit, Rahane,Raina, Kohli, Rayudu, Jadeja, Ashwin, Akshar, Bhuvneshwar, Ishant, Shami, Binny, Umesh.
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I am aghast with this team. They have a rat's a** chance of making ahead of any playoffs.
I don't think the reserve players like Rayudu and Binny, who most likely won't play a single match will determine India's chances of reaching the finals. The major concern is death bowling, for which there aren't many(maybe any)options. Shami is the only one who is relatively alright.

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And we have also seen, he does not have any imagination whatsoever with fielding positions. Ravi Shastri may say whatever he may want to - this team is not going anywhere, if we keep picking T20 players in Tests.
If anything, he has been too imaginative or "funky" with his field placements. But, people will slowly realize that the captain cannot make much of a difference if the bowling is so pedestrian.
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