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Old 30th September 2007, 12:05   #1351
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20 overs game was possible. India had to get 164 in 20 overs with 9 wickets in hand. Aussies were ready, umpires were ready. But Dhoni refused. Why did T20 champions refuse a 20 over game?

Later Dhoni said "Bahaduri aur beokufi ke beech bahot kam fark hai" (There is a very fine margin between foolishness and bravado).

Saurav dived once & saved runs. So he now needs a MRI scan. Might have pulled a hamstring. Sachin was LBW to an expected straight delivery. So 2 batsmen out. If Dhoni had the same T20 team, he might not have refused a game
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Sadly, looks like the rain is badly affecting the game. But hey, hang on. It might just end up being another T20 game .
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Old 30th September 2007, 12:08   #1352
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What is your opinion on playing powar? Is it justified in playing him and leaving Bhajji out?
This is a tough one. Powar had a bad game in Bangalore. He is an attacking bowler and could go for runs against the aggressive Australian batsmen. But he could also take vital wickets. I would persist with Powar for one more game and if he fails, go with Bhajji. If the pitch offers substantial assistance to spin, then both of them should be played and one seamer will have to be left out.
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Old 30th September 2007, 13:18   #1353
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It always happens to Sachin, why?
I can give you countless number of instances when it has happened to other great batsmen in the PRIME of their form, but there is no point in arguing with you.

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Its an old trick - 5 leaving and 1 coming in. Old pro must have expected this. I put my tongue out & say any other batsman would have defended successfully or pushed it for runs.
Its these old tricks that STILL work even in the cricket till date. EVERY single one of them.

Slater, who is an avid informer/follower of the Australian side says "Johnson isn't known for bringing the ball back into a right hander & it came as a surprise to him too". Maybe it came as a surprise to Sachin that the ball swung back in so much (after having watched some highlights of Johnson's previous games). I am sure you are aware, but before a game most batsmen & bowlers study the strengths of their opposition & maybe Johnson's incoming delivery wasn't a cause of concern because he never caused anyone trouble before. Just like until Bhajji came out with a DOOSRA, it was never a cause of concern to most batsmen around the world. Initially they all fell like a pile of wickets until they figured it out.

I would not like to put my tongue anywhere other than in my mouth (does look bad & not hygienic) but I know ANY batsmen would get out to that ball. The white ball swings under lights. And I am not saying this to defend Sachin, I believed the same in T20 too when none of these players were there. It is very important to see off the first few overs with the white ball under lights & keep wickets in hand. But its easier said than done.

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Note: Commentators also say the delivery was so good that any other batsman would have left it alone and since Sachin is the greatest batsman, he nicked it
Just like the commentators also said "The ball was so good that it missed the batsmen, the stumps, the wicketkeeper & 3rd man"??? I am talking about Powar's ball here. Note that, this is no way takes the credit away from the bowler. Similarly, I expect you to credit the bowler for a good ball for having induced a nick and not point Sachin or anyone else for that matter. A good ball IS a good ball. But, I don't expect you to understand that.

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Saurav dived once & saved runs. So he now needs a MRI scan. Might have pulled a hamstring.
Could you also explain to me WHY 4 australian players are suffering with hamstring injuries though they are about a decade younger to Ganguly. Stop singling out people just to suit your fantasies. Injuries can happen to anyone at anytime. Just like it did to Yuvi's elbow at T20.
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But Dhoni refused. Why did T20 champions refuse a 20 over game? If Dhoni had the same T20 team, he might not have refused a game
Let me guess. Because Dhoni thought he had more to loose by playing? Or maybe because there was no one else to sacrifice like Rohit Sharma this time. With Sachin down, Ganguly injured this was the perfect platform to prove that the fab 3 ought to be thrown out by taking up the onus on themselves. But wait, didn't he still have Gambhir, Yuvraj, himself, Pathan playing as well? Does that mean Dhoni chickened out or does not have the confidence in his team of youngsters? Maybe not, if you look at it INTELLIGENTLY & in a non-BIASED way, the outfield was SOGGY & WET. Which means the ball won't travel jeopardizing India's chances of getting boundaries. Not because he didn't have the same team. Are you willing to go to ANY LEVEL to prove your point (about fab 3) than understanding how a wet outfield plays into the hands of the opposition?

Rohan, if you look at the pitch it did offer some bounce (uneven too). So whoever the team thought between Powar & Bhajji could benefit more from the bounce from the wicket MUST have played. Thats a decision IMO only the team management can take.

PS: All those of you shouting HOARSE about the age of Indian players do note that the average age of the Australian side that played yesterday is an alarming 31 (add Hussey, Ponting & it will climb). While India's is 29, inspite of having 3 players in their 38's. IMO I don't see Australian's complaining wanting a YOUNGER side. Its just we unhappy souls back home trying to find solace in pointing out fingers.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 30th September 2007 at 13:33.
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Old 30th September 2007, 13:54   #1354
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PS: All those of you shouting HOARSE about the age of Indian players do note that the average age of the Australian side that played yesterday is an alarming 31 (add Hussey, Ponting & it will climb). While India's is 29, inspite of having 3 players in their 38's. IMO I don't see Australian's complaining wanting a YOUNGER side. Its just we unhappy souls back home trying to find solace in pointing out fingers.
I think the Big 3 are closer to 35 in age rather than 38. But that is not the point. The point is that Sachin has been playing international cricket for something like 18 years now, while Dravid and Ganguly must have been at it for ~12 years. That is a lot of cricket under very demanding conditions, and it takes its toll on mind and body.

Regarding the Aussies, they go through an enormous amount of fitness training. Yesterday some TV commentator was pointing out that even though the Aussies have had a long break, Michael Clarke was still running sharp singles towards the end of his innings of 130. They are at peak fitness levels because of the training schedule, even if their cricket is a bit rusty. That is the kind of fitness training that Greg Chappell tried to impose on the Indians and failed. An Aussie at age 31 will be much fitter than most of our players, with the possible exception of Yuvraj. Kaif is another guy who probably matches the fitness levels of the Aussies.
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Old 30th September 2007, 14:13   #1355
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rks, sorry about that. Yes, I did mean 35. It was a typo on my part. Also, I tend to agree with you on the part that a player at the same age will have a lot of difference in fitness levels when compared to other countries. But, it is not a fair comparison between the players who started their career ages back and those of now. Back in those days, they really didn't have the requirement for that kind of fitness levels or the equipment or guidance. Also, don't you think its for these players to know & decide when its taking a toll on their body? Who are we to step into their shoes and think otherwise? I think we should respect their decision.

Also, there is a saying that goes "Irrespective of how many tough/tight/nail biting matches you have played every match is a new experience". You can only carry forward your experiences from these matches, but you cannot be "guaranteed" of a success inspite of being in the same situation. Do you agree with me? So its not fair to say, he has played for 18 years, that doesn't mean he has mastered the game and should not get out for anything less than a 100 (against common perception here). IMO thats the beauty of this game.

Diabloo, before you come back with another reply let me just conclude on why Dhoni choose not to play:
1. Momentum was with the Aussies & India were CHASING (not necessarily our strength).
2. Not sure whether rain would further interrupt the match & probably make the target even more tougher.
3. Effect of the drizzle on the pitch which was beginning to show uneven bounce.
4. Most important factor being the soggy & wet ground conditions. Boundaries will be hard to come by as the ball will not travel.
5. Confidence will be dented if they loose, so better be cautious than to start on a loosing note.
6. D/L is quite tricky and one will never know whose hands it will play into if rain were to affect the game again.
7. Pitches are not as batsmen friendly as they were back in SA. Ball not coming onto the bat means hitting 6s is not so easy unlike in SA. SO even a T20 here could have gone against the Indians.
8. Pitch would have been sweating under the covers and cloudy conditions would further assist swing for the OZ bowlers.

Against your argument that he refused to play because of the return of the fab 3. Pretty baseless assumption I must add. rks, what do you have to say about Dhoni's decision not to play?

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 30th September 2007 at 14:17.
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Old 30th September 2007, 14:47   #1356
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I have a feeling that Dravid will play a crucial innings in the next match. Kochi has always been quite a high scoring ground. I think we are in for another high scoring contest.
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Old 30th September 2007, 15:04   #1357
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rks, what do you have to say about Dhoni's decision not to play?
I think Dhoni simply preferred to play safe. I agree that the odds favoured the Aussies under these conditions. If Dhoni had taken the risk and lost, his head surely would have been on the block. Dhoni probably did what most international captains would have done at that stage. If this were the last game of the series and India were 1-0 down, then surely Dhoni would have had nothing to lose by carrying on. In that case the Aussies would have been less than eager to be seen on the field and would be loudly protesting to the umpires about the wet outfield/bowling runup and the risk of injury to bowlers/fielders, etc.

Last edited by rks : 30th September 2007 at 15:17.
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Old 1st October 2007, 00:52   #1358
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Saurav has been rested for the 2nd ODI as a precautionary measure. So the rotation policy has already begun. Rohit Sharma could find his place into the playing 11 as early as tuesday. Sadly, rain gods are predicted to play spoil sports yet again.
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Old 1st October 2007, 10:24   #1359
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Posted something, but decided to delete to avoid another argument.

Last edited by ntomer : 1st October 2007 at 10:35.
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Old 1st October 2007, 10:37   #1360
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Isn't it what happening in this thread
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Posted something, but decided to delete to avoid
another argument.
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Old 1st October 2007, 10:43   #1361
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Now, can you tell me a single instance when he had played a good innings when opposition had scored 300 in the first innings? I can't seem to remember any.
Nitin, first welcome back. You returned much earlier than I had anticipated.

Secondly, I request you to kindly take some time and go through some of the posts I had put up earlier with some stats. In case you have missed out on it, let me show you again.

Cricinfo - Tendulkar v other top batsmen in run-chases

Stop being so full of yourself just to prove your point. The figures are there to prove. And he stands in elite company of the so called "seniors" who have had tons of experience. I cannot see ANY player in the top 10 best run chasers in the world since 2002 figuring in that list including your famed Yuvraj Singh or Mohd.Kaif or one of the best finishers in the game Michael Hussey. Does that ring some bells for you? Maybe not.

I just realized your memory is really short. Shorter than most Indian cricket fans. Or have you "conveniently" forgotten the 94 against Eng in the 6th ODI for which he won the MOTM chasing 316? Or the 141 he scored against Pakistan in Rawalpindi chasing 329? Reiterating once again, this is a team game. Can you kindly explain to me WHY Sachin is being singled out here? If he fails, WHY aren't the rest of the batsmen doing the job? You need to get your understanding of the game right first.

PS: Just saw that you edited your post. Sadly, I already replied to it. If you have some figures & facts to prove otherwise kindly do so. If not, I don't think you should waste our time & bandwidth posting "I am out of here" for the "N"th time.

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Old 1st October 2007, 10:52   #1362
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When is the second ODI @ Kochi?
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Old 1st October 2007, 10:56   #1363
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When is the second ODI @ Kochi?
Tomorrow, barring the rain gods spare us.
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Old 1st October 2007, 11:03   #1364
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Sachin should play the ball on merit, instead of thinking of the video he saw yesterday. He should not underestimate the bowler, categorize him and create a mental block in his mind (mental block - this guy can't bring back in, so I will put my foot in line and swing my bat).

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Slater, who is an avid informer/follower of the Australian side says "Johnson isn't known for bringing the ball back into a right hander & it came as a surprise to him too". Maybe it came as a surprise to Sachin that the ball swung back in so much (after having watched some highlights of Johnson's previous games). I am sure you are aware, but before a game most batsmen & bowlers study the strengths of their opposition & maybe Johnson's incoming delivery wasn't a cause of concern because he never caused anyone trouble before.
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Old 1st October 2007, 11:07   #1365
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Sachin should play the ball on merit, instead of thinking of the video he saw yesterday. He should not underestimate the bowler, categorize him and create a mental block in his mind (mental block - this guy can't bring back in, so I will put my foot in line and swing my bat).
Thats easier said than done. Infact, IIRC it was the Australians that got this ploy of watching the strengths & weaknesses of their opposition by watching video replays of matches & this caught on. Ever wondered how they figured the weaknesses people like Ganguly & Sehwag had and exploited it? Diabloo, there is much more to cricket tactics than you and me are aware of. We should let these professionals do all the thinking and we as fans do the enjoying/supporting bit. Unfortunately, its quite the opposite here.

Do consider the fact that its difficult to pick up the extent of swing unless you have spent a couple of overs at the batting crease. Specially if its late swing, thats the hardest to pick. Which is what made people like Waqar Younis, Wasim Akram & Irfan Pathan so dangerous. Like I said, its a lot easier said than done.

Everyone know for a fact that Wasim Akram is the best exponent of swing bowling the cricketing world has witnessed in the last 2 decades or so. While everyone knows this, don't you think all the batsmen should be able to play the ball by its merit and get away with it? It seldom works that way. Check this fabulous video out to know how even the best are foxed with some brilliant swing bowling.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 1st October 2007 at 11:15.
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