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Old 8th August 2010, 22:27   #16
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The biggest culprits of our country are our Politicians, who for their own greed do not care for us. Common man is just HELPLESS.

The author of this article should write about the those greedy Politicians in power. How Green fertile lands are being sold to bulider mafias, how judicial enquiries against them are just a mockery of system etc..etc..
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Old 8th August 2010, 23:07   #17
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I did not want to type my thoughts here, but what the heck let me do it, on a Sunday it wouldn't cost too much. I do not have any solutions to this real problem, but I am part of the problem; to that I completely agree. Had I not been born, I would spare some oxygen and some space for the rest of you guys. But my car? Poor thing she came into existence because I placed an order with her manufacturer. Well, jokes apart, let us get down to serious thinking on this problem (not on the solution, mind you).

1. When there is a cab strike in Mumbai, the roads seem so open.
2. Private car runs only between home and office, then it is off the road.
3. In contrast, cab wastes road space and time in search of the next customer.
4. All those who make a lot of noise against increasing number of private cars; like traffic commissioner, journalist, town planner, politician, and other such useless guys; do not use private cars. They also do not use public transport either. They use official vehicles like say an SUV to carry one driver and one useless public servant.
5. If you opt for public transport then you will spend at least 50% extra time in waiting to get into a public transport. What a waste (read cost) of time of a functional human.
6. Finally, I avoid using my car unless it is a dire need. The crime is not in buying a car, but in using it when you could do without it; in my not-so-humble opinion.
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Old 9th August 2010, 12:13   #18
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Please do not pounce on me for the stuff that I'm going to post.
Most of the posts in this thread seem to be indicating that we are doing absolutely no damage to mother earth. Isn't just blatantly aping the west, especially in terms of consumerism not leading to depletion of natural resources at an incredibly fast-paced rate?
Another thing, why does everyone seem to be so offended by this article?
Are these posts of ours indicating a guilty conscience? Please do not take anything personally. Please think over it as we exist in an ecosystem.

I know there has been a spiritual degradation the world-over in this metal-age that we are living in, still I would like to remind us that in the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna had said that an ordinary man would go on cutting trees for fuel till all the trees would vanish whereas a wise man would think about environmental balance & how his actions affect the environment.

ps: I haven't read the article. This is just a heartfelt expression of my thoughts on these issues.

Last edited by Jayabusa : 9th August 2010 at 12:16.
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Old 9th August 2010, 16:19   #19
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Originally Posted by lloydofcochin View Post

aerohit, That's some radical thoughts there

Agree to that fact that lot of people really don't care.
That IS the solution. Why shy away from real solution? There is no other solution. You will grow old and will still be complaining about traffic with no solution.

Forget traffic, India does not have natural resources like water or land available to feed the entire population.

Lets not multiply like a bacteria, or else we are very soon going to become one of those hated countries simply because there are just too many of us which the planet dont need or neither can sustain.

Because of other peoples irresponsible act i am left with no option but to adopt a child now.

They are also suffering, i am also suffering, everyone else is also suffering.

Last edited by aerohit : 9th August 2010 at 16:26.
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Old 9th August 2010, 16:34   #20
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Default Let us count the costs!

I agree with only thing she says - Let us go ahead and count the costs. And find out if the city is really the loser?

And, sitting your in chair in a comfy office, it is easy to raise the issues - like this - and present a lopsided view!

This is not just about cars and the owners. It is about the factories which produce them, lakhs employed directly and ten times the number indirectly. What are these people going to do, if there are no cars on the road? Make cycles and bullock carts, eh?

What is really wrong is that planners do not have 'foresight'. Pune is a prime example of this. One look at BRTS and you will understand what is chaos. On top of this, they are talking about metro.

If you build a convenient and user friendly commuting system, I am sure many will opt for it. I use a two-wheeler most of the days; despite this, if I can be assured of a punctual bus service with the basic comfort, I will readily opt for it.

Finally, talking about the costs - My commute to office and back on my bike is ~25 kms. About half-a-litre of petrol on the bike = Rs. 28 something. The recently hiked fares of PMT will cost me Rs. 30 a day

I can easily afford the bike or PMT or even the car. But what about the ordinary daily-wage earner? Any succor for him??
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Old 9th August 2010, 17:23   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayabusa View Post
Most of the posts in this thread seem to be indicating that we are doing absolutely no damage to mother earth. Isn't just blatantly aping the west, especially in terms of consumerism not leading to depletion of natural resources at an incredibly fast-paced rate?
Another thing, why does everyone seem to be so offended by this article?
Are these posts of ours indicating a guilty conscience? Please do not take anything personally. Please think over it as we exist in an ecosystem.
Nicely put. Totally agree with you here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
Forget traffic, India does not have natural resources like water or land available to feed the entire population.

Lets not multiply like a bacteria, or else we are very soon going to become one of those hated countries simply because there are just too many of us which the planet dont need or neither can sustain.

Because of other peoples irresponsible act i am left with no option but to adopt a child now.

They are also suffering, i am also suffering, everyone else is also suffering.
Wow! This is some serious stuff. Sorry but can't agree with you here. We are a self - sufficient nation and we will remain one too. A simple example would be the recent global economic crisis. All major economies had recession while all we had was a "slowdown" and nothing more. We still grew over the previous years but at a slower pace. Thats all. And as for the population, I agree we have a large population but as the great saying goes: "There is enough for everyones need but not everyones greed."

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Originally Posted by vrprabhu View Post
I agree with only thing she says - Let us go ahead and count the costs. And find out if the city is really the loser?
Yes. It will be interesting to know what the "actual" cost would be. The writers is only from one viewpoint.

The point which I found interesting in her article is that the area utilised for parking equals the area for greenary in Delhi, 11%. This if true, is really shocking. We should encorage more multi-level parking mechanisms. They are expensive but on a long run are very viable (both for the user as well as the investor).

Something to prick the Mumbaikers mind: Can you guys imagine the condition of Mumbai minus the local trains? I dont think there is another city in India which is more dependant on a public transport system than Mumbai.
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Old 9th August 2010, 20:18   #22
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just because she owns a car doesn't mean she can not point out that cars create an environmental hazard.

if you live where everybody else drives fast cars, it becomes difficult to survive without one because the infrastructure, shopping centers are planned keeping that in mind. same goes for using water, electricity, medicines, everything an environmentalist might care for.

coming back to the topic, I don't see the point of the article. But it's quite likely hat there are some people who may not realize the cost they are imposing on the rest of the ecosystem with their acts an it may help them think better. And I have no knowledge or inclination to know what her agenda is.

What's most dangerous trend is converting all costs to money (concept directly taken from west), and using that to make decisions. e.g. "If I can afford a V8 truck with it's maintenance and fuel costs, I must deserve it". Or, "if I can afford chemical treatment and daily irrigation of my lawn to keep it shinier than the international level golf courses, I must deserve it". It doesn't matter how it affects the environment or the fertility of the soil while thousands die of malnutrition and lack of clean drinking water.
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Old 9th August 2010, 20:35   #23
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Everyone keeps saying that if there existed a good public transport system, they will use it.

I will not. I would be very happy if everyone else is using it and saving the environment and stuff. But I would still ride to office. Or drive depending on the weather and more importantly my mood.

I might give public transport a try. But I would still ride.

I did use public transport once. That was when I stayed in Begumpet(Hyderabad). Very close to the railway station. It took me exactly 1 hour to reach my seat in office from the time I stepped out of my house. Those days the flyover was being built and traffic was HORRIBLE. Saved me a lot of money as well. Because of the monthly pass by the railways.
And I did this for just about a month. Shifted my house after that.

But given a choice of good roads and good public transport. I would still ride to office.

If they let me drive the train. That would make me reconsider. But no, I would still like to ride my bike.

Once all the petrol in the world is over, I will stick a big sail on my bike and still ride to office.
But I guess I will have no office to go to. I will be too busy hunting for food.
For the economy as we know it will collapse.

And when everything is shut down. Send me a PM if you need a carpenter or painter. If there is no internet, keep a lookout for a bike with a white sail if you need furniture repair or whitewash for your walls. I have very little experience but I will let you sit on my wind powered bike.
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Old 10th August 2010, 23:39   #24
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I was with her when she was against soft drinks, but this is totally ridiculous. Why?

1. When I buy a car, I pay taxes. When I tank up, when I buy spare parts, I pay taxes. Where did this money go? Ideally, this money should have been spent in the development of the city and maintenance of existing roads.

2. Cities are not planned

3. Projects like Greater Bangalore are not coming up fast enough.

4. Metro project is not well executed and have created havoc in the Bangalore city.

5. Too many auto rickshaws. This might not sound like too much, but Bangalore guys can experience the difference on an auto-strike day. What a hell of relief!

6. Finally, driving manners, lane discipline, patience, respecting others right of way, following traffic signals are all missing in most of our our drivers.

Get these things right and I'm sure you will see a world of difference. Already we pay too much tax compared to other 'developed' nations. Paying more makes absolutely no sense. Its the government's responsibility to ensure that things get properly implemented.

The city hasn't failed, our government has failed. Our systems have failed. Accusing the common man for this makes no sense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bblost View Post
Once all the petrol in the world is over, I will stick a big sail on my bike and still ride to office.
Don't worry man, before that day comes, I'm sure we'll all be using electric vehicles or ethanol as fuel. That said, the earlier the better though.

Last edited by blue_pulsar : 10th August 2010 at 23:43.
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Old 11th August 2010, 16:19   #25
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I basically find all these eco-hysterics and green-ponces arguments pretty half witted.

What do these guys want us to do?
Go back to cave man age?

We must admit that human population is much larger than what we were designed for.
At the top of food chain we should have been not much more than the population of highest predator in any continent.

But where are we?
We are present everywhere like insects.
Obviously there will be a resource crunch - which is resolved (albeit temporarily) by using technology.

There are repurcussions and side effects of these technologies - but we build newer technologies to take care to these effects.

Lets admit one thing: Going back to stone age will wipe out 99% of existing human population.

It will really become survival of the fittest. And I can conservatively estaimate that 99% of humans will not survive.

Ready for that?
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Old 11th August 2010, 16:44   #26
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Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post

Obviously there will be a resource crunch - which is resolved (albeit temporarily) by using technology.

There are repurcussions and side effects of these technologies - but we build newer technologies to take care to these effects.
That's like taking medicines for the side effects of medicines.
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Old 11th August 2010, 16:53   #27
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Yes.
But its true.
Thats how technology works.

You know how any mechanical work can be completely transferred to heat (law of nature - entropy).

But the reverse is not true - you actually create slightly more heat (although somewhere else) to create work from heat.

We use technology to fight nature, not live along with it.


And in medical domain - the whole drugs thingie - believe it or not is actually making human species more vulnerable to diseases by allowing the less fitter to survive and pass genes.

Last edited by alpha1 : 11th August 2010 at 16:56.
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Old 11th August 2010, 17:29   #28
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Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
I basically find all these eco-hysterics and green-ponces arguments pretty half witted.

What do these guys want us to do?
Go back to cave man age?
Looking at the rate at which resources are being used to fulfill human 'wants', don't you think that that day isn't far?

And about technology, let me tell you, it seldom ever comes with more merits than demerits. People are behaving as if mobile phones et al are parts of their bodies, without which we won't function normally. We have become so dependent & mentally weak due to certain gadgets! Raymond may or may not make one feel like a complete man, but the lack/absence of cellphones, sadly are making people feel incomplete!
Cellphone towers have almost led to the extinction of sparrows!

And the worst part is, when someone who is environmentally/socially conscious speaks up against something wrong, people say, "looks like this person has no other work to do."
Exactly, no one else has the time to spare a thought about society/environment because everyone is busy making money & indulging. We human beings entirely lack foresight. We always think about temporary satisfaction of wants & never about the hazards they will lead to in the long run.
Food for thought.

Last edited by Jayabusa : 11th August 2010 at 17:48.
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Old 11th August 2010, 18:32   #29
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Such a worthless rant by the author. All she has done is go on and on about a problem (which frankly has been discussed a gazillion times) without actually looking at possibilities of what can be improved. What i would like to see are fresh perspectives and looking at both sides of the coin. In the absence of a decent public transpotation system, what is one supposed to do, walk to work (or wherever else one needs to go)? Is the common man not taxed enough? How can we utlize the existing roads better? What are the "quick fixes" we can adopt? How can we better sensitize people about car pools? How can we educate people on things such as lane driving, the absence of which does have an impact on the traffic snarls? How can the govt provide means to car manufacturers to work on fuel efficient technologies (eg - hybrids), instead of doling out subsidies to cars with a certain engine capacity and length, irrespective of their fuel efficiency?

And what is this about "Delhi is a rich state"? What exactly does she mean? You see enough signs of poverty in the capital. I am sure a "distinguished writer" such as herself could have chosen her words carefully. Example - "Delhi is a major Indian city". How about that Miss Hotshot writer, sounds better?

Her's is a very narrow viewpoint and it really pains me to see people such as her who have access to a mouthpiece which enables her to reach millions. And this is the best she can get out of this opportunity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
Plastic bags, coke tins, denting for drilling oil is faster than filling the dented surface.
We are not discussing pollution holistically but what can be attributed to vehichles alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lloydofcochin View Post
I knew that this would be a controversial topic here since everyone loves their Cars and no one wants someone else to tell them not to use it or curtail it's usage.

Even I too have the same feeling since I too love to drive. Off late I have started using the Vajra Volvos here while commuting in the City and to office. My office is 5kms from my apartment and it takes about 30-35 mins by Car if it is during peak hours and 18-20 mins by cycle. The Volvo ride takes me almost the same times as the car or probably 5mins more. If I take the Volvos to the city I am spared the pain of hunting for a parking space for the car and can do away with cursing those morons who tries to make every road a oneway by blocking other vehicles from the opposite end and making traffic hell for others.

The idea of the thread is nothing but for us to do an introspection on our Car usage and to have a healthy debate about it.
You gave an example of you taking a Volvo instead of taking your car out. Fair enough. But do you feel such a facility (read public transportation) is an option everywhere, including the "developed cities"? I can assure you that in a city like Pune (fairly developed IMO), public transportation is a joke.

And we all would have only and only discussed car usage and related introspection had the thread been sans that ridiculous article. The way we are wasting real estate for parking our cars, she has wasted real estate on the news daily with her mind numbing views.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lohithrao View Post
Urgent need is stop further growth of the main cities like Mumbai, Bangalore...another 4-5years and Bangalore will be in a hell state not that it is heaven now but the way things are going on there it will be a hell soon!

Every state should have atleast 2 developed cities, if more its better.
I say sir, every state should only have developed cities. But easier said than done, haina? A noble thought but how do you make this a norm. We are then talking about a much braoder topic than just "traffic conditions" IMO.

Also, how and why would you stop "growth" in certain cities, pray tell.
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Old 11th August 2010, 19:04   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Yes.
But its true.
Thats how technology works.

You know how any mechanical work can be completely transferred to heat (law of nature - entropy).

But the reverse is not true - you actually create slightly more heat (although somewhere else) to create work from heat.

We use technology to fight nature, not live along with it.


And in medical domain - the whole drugs thingie - believe it or not is actually making human species more vulnerable to diseases by allowing the less fitter to survive and pass genes.
you are contradicting yourself, or may be accepting the differences. On one hand you know taking medicine is making us weaker, on the other hand you are advocating "fighting" nature. Trust me, nature always wins .
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