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Old 24th September 2013, 14:34   #301
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Aadhaar can nor be an address proof like many believe. Did anyone go through police verification? How many have passport as an address proof?

Then what's the authenticity of the address. So it cannot be accepted for address proof or citizenship, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis who jumped border are getting them.

One thing positive is the biometric. It will identify you as a person in India. It's a one way system. Which means let's say you send fingerprints/photo and name of a person, the system replies Yes or No. No other data can not be fetched from the system. So it only helps to verify who you claim to be.

Aadhaar will work only if all other services are linked. Right from School to PAN.

Now the govt can track everything you do and your transactions

Not much to worry if you are a law abiding citizen. Our data is any way an open secret. Can be accessed by an RTI at the right place.

I am for Aadhaar. Because of biometric scan only one card is issued to a person. That will reduce the fake names and address from various systems and plug some leaks.

What the SC says is nothing wrong. First the govt should get the measures in place then go for full implementation. Get it vetted in the constitution first then go full fledge. Right now they only create confusion.

Last edited by HillMan : 24th September 2013 at 14:37.
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Old 24th September 2013, 14:40   #302
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Not much to worry if you are a law abiding citizen.
The old "If you have nothing to hide, why do you care about privacy" chestnut.

Here is just one rebuttal - https://www.schneier.com/essay-114.html
There are 100s of rebuttals if you google around.
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Old 24th September 2013, 14:49   #303
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You make it sound like it can be negotiated and settled. Nope, that is not the case here.

Government is doing something unconstitutional. Therefore, the Supreme court told the government to stop doing it. Unless Aadhar scheme is ratified by the parliament, it remains unconstitutional. The job of the court is to interpret the constitution and they have done so.
I think for somebody or anybody to ratify it, the usefulness of the Aadhar card should be demonstrated first. My guess is that somebody somewhere has realized that the real purpose behind this initiative has been lost.

Such an important project was evaluated on a L1 basis which is ridiculous so much so for National Security.

I recently went in for my Aadhar card and provided all bio metric related information, the documentation asked for was a total farce nothing was checked, no originals were requested for and it was all over in 10 minutes.

This is a fantastic case of garbage in garbage out.

In my opinion the quality of data being captured is questionable.

Further, to my surprise this is all captured in a standalone workstation or a server. Given the 1.2 or 1.3 billion population of India, I shudder to think how can anybody cross check and verify the bio metric details provided.

The bio metrics captured should be put to some use, I do not know what technology is being used to run analytics on this data that has been captured.

The reason I am stating this again is to highlight that, If you guys remember how our PAN system card was a utter joke in the mid 1990's. Thankfully and later the fire in Bombay BKC offices wiped out a lot of data and saved another L1 tender from embarrassment. It was only streamlined till the JOB was handed over to NDSL for data management in a centralized location.

Like how the truck drivers have driving licenses from multiple states, I see nothing stopping the unscrupulous lot from making multiple Aadhar cards as it is currently free for all without any checks.

Post my experience in enrolling for the card, I know for sure that the 10 working days taken by UDAI to approve my application and provide me with a number, there is no way my bio metric information captured was every cross checked fro any duplicates.
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Old 24th September 2013, 14:52   #304
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Not much to worry if you are a law abiding citizen. Our data is any way an open secret.
You have all the reason to worry. You are thinking of a good implementation, run by efficient staff. But that is not the case. This is implemented by government of India, which means they will get most things wrong, and we already have enough proof of that. My parents address mentions the village name 3 times and district name 2 times, wrong house number, but no house name or street. This is despite the initial data entry made correctly in front my parents.

If a law abiding citizen's Aadhar card gets cross linked with a bank account of another, do you realise the amount of hardship the citizen has to undergo to correct it? They may never correct it, going by my own experience of having wrong address in voter id and ration card. Government employees have zero accountability after making any mistake, but the citizen is responsible to have it fixed. That process is long, and most give up unless really required.

Last edited by Samurai : 24th September 2013 at 14:53.
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Old 24th September 2013, 15:20   #305
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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going by my own experience of having wrong address in voter id and ration card.
Slightly OT, but I have a strong feeling that the details in most of the 'cards' issued by the Govt. are purposely filled up with wrong details. My Voter's I card, my Adhar card, ration card, LPG connection: they all have wrong details on at least one field- be it my name, age or address, ; despite clearly furnishing the details in the application forms of each of these cards. And I don't know how effective is the 'address proof' when more than half the population of the country does not have his own home and lives in a rented house. How useful is this address proof then, apart from just filling up the allocated field on the card?

Last edited by saket77 : 24th September 2013 at 15:23.
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Old 24th September 2013, 15:38   #306
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You have all the reason to worry. You are thinking of a good implementation, run by efficient staff.
The Aadhaar ID will not get linked automatically, unless you give it for linking.

For entering a wrong address is the operators mistake. They confirm what is entered on screen before submitting to the system.

If data submitted is wrong, then guess you have to wait a long time to fix it, as the system is new and they will have lakhs of queries to answer.

Aadhaar infrastructure is way better than the Voter ID systems around and well thought out. As far as I know its a one way encryption system, which needs multiple parameters to authenticate an individual.

I would look at the positive for the system in place. We definitely need it so people dont claim subsidies and benefits, which end of the day is our hard earned tax money.

Every system can and will be misused at one point. But then the positives will out weigh the negatives.

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And I don't know how effective is the 'address proof' when more than half the population of the country does not have his own home and lives in a rented house. How useful is this address proof then, apart from just filling up the allocated field on the card?
As I said earlier, it is the name and biometric and not the address that Aadhaar stands for. Address keep changing for most individuals. It is to identity of an individual which will work best when integrated to other systems.

Last edited by HillMan : 24th September 2013 at 15:44.
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Old 24th September 2013, 16:15   #307
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Further, to my surprise this is all captured in a standalone workstation or a server. Given the 1.2 or 1.3 billion population of India, I shudder to think how can anybody cross check and verify the bio metric details provided.
Shiv, I believe they have a good matching algorithm behind the central systems. One of my friend applied for Aadhaar in 2 different states. After a month's time he was issued the number/card from his home state where he applied first and the second application was rejected. This may be possible only because of the matching of bio-metric data.

if you notice, the data captured on the standalone system (internet enabled) was finally uploaded to the central databases before the receipt was generated.
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Old 24th September 2013, 16:34   #308
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Further, to my surprise this is all captured in a standalone workstation or a server. Given the 1.2 or 1.3 billion population of India, I shudder to think how can anybody cross check and verify the bio metric details provided.
Cross check, well it may happen it the process is in place. First of all, they have to store the data that they collect!
Shocking! Maharashtra admits it lost Aadhaar data of three lakh people - http://www.moneylife.in/article/shoc...ple/32345.html

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The data loss in transmission from Mumbai to Bengaluru is just one of the incidents highlighting potential threat of Aadhaar. By creating a lucrative database under UID, we are creating the wrong incentives for various interets—from hackers to enemy nations
You may get many more news reports if you search.
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Old 24th September 2013, 16:58   #309
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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The Aadhaar ID will not get linked automatically, unless you give it for linking.
Without linking, you won't get subsidies. You'll pay double for LPG. Not like one has a choice.

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Shiv, I believe they have a good matching algorithm behind the central systems.
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Originally Posted by sa_kiran View Post
Cross check, well it may happen it the process is in place.
It is not so easy... This has been discussed before: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post3226686 (Nationwide UID - will it work?)
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Old 24th September 2013, 17:24   #310
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Without linking, you won't get subsidies. You'll pay double for LPG. Not like one has a choice.
Right, so ensure the data entered is right the first time, after all most people have stood in queues for hours to reach the hot seat.

Once you have a number, it can be used as your identification and linked with various schemes. Like a PAN for your IT and Bank transactions.
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Old 24th September 2013, 17:29   #311
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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Right, so ensure the data entered is right the first time
You mean the way my parents made sure their address was entered correctly? Fine, they did that. Still Aadhar software turned that into garbage. Similarly thing can happen to bank details too. If that happens, there is no recourse.
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Old 24th September 2013, 17:44   #312
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You mean the way my parents made sure their address was entered correctly? Fine, they did that. Still Aadhar software turned that into garbage. Similarly thing can happen to bank details too. If that happens, there is no recourse.
Operator errors can't be generalised on the system. Not all operators are same.

Sadly you have been on the receiving end. Similarly I am ruining around to get my voter ID corrected for over a year
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Old 24th September 2013, 18:16   #313
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

Also, some things are automated in data entry, like the PIN code comes up with locality!
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Old 24th September 2013, 18:38   #314
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Would it have been easier and cheaper to add biometrics to the existing PAN or Passport database than create a whole new rigmarole? Those not having either could start new ones simultaneously. Everybody may not need a passport but PAN could be made compulsory. These systems atleast have undergone some beta testing and are more robust and efficient.
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Old 24th September 2013, 18:44   #315
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Default Re: Nationwide UID - will it work?

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I am ruining around to get my voter ID corrected for over a year
If you are worried that you won't be able to vote with wrong address don't worry.
Every city has a dedicated website, which displays the details of Voter ID's.
Search for Bangalore: This is the website:
http://ceokarnataka.kar.nic.in/ Look for "I want TO" & "Get Poling station details"
or http://ceokarnataka.kar.nic.in/Sms_New.aspx

Alternatively:
SMS your details to 9243355223 in following format:
KAEPIC XYZ1234567 (XYZ1234567 is your voter id card number). Go ther & vote. Even I am struggling to get my address correct, but polling booth is correct, as incorrect address is of next block of same society I live in.

Last edited by aah78 : 25th March 2014 at 00:37. Reason: Text format tags removed.
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